Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Slack

    Slack Forum Resident

    I like this.Performed by the audience.
     
  2. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    A little bit too tuneless and loose, and Andy White's vocal is again nothing to get too excited about.

    It's pleasant enough, but not a song that I rush back to.

    2.5/5.
     
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  3. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Jacqui is really good, I'm getting closer to deciding I want to get this album. Andy's singing is a little lounge-y in places, but Tim's harmonies are perfect. And the lyrics are excellent, evocative and thought provoking.

    4/5
     
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  4. therunner

    therunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Jacqui is marginally better than the previous one, but again mainly for Tim's contributions - his melody and vocals. Because I really don't like Andy white's voice I fear I am going to struggle to be positive about any of his songs, but you never know...

    2/5
     
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  5. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    There's nothing wring with this song on a listen through, but it just doesn't move me at all... I'd never, if I were with a bunch of people and it came on, go "hey - does anyone know what this is?" But I wouldn't be like "ugh, change the channel" either.

    3/5
     
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  6. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    "Jacqui" doesn't do much for me, I have to admit. I find the drumming intrusive and think the song might have worked better without it. The melody doesn't grab me either. I'm just not a big fan of White's voice. The lyrics are pretty good, on the other hand. (I've been to this part of Belfast, but back in 1995 so I don't know what it is like now. It certainly wasn't a dump, but the security checkpoints and fences separating neighborhoods did tend to put a damper on the overall mood.)

    2.9/5
     
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  7. Michael Rofkar

    Michael Rofkar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    The YouTube link said "unavailable" yesterday, but it's working now.
     
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  8. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    "Jacqui" is a real highlight on the album, particularly the lyrics with its vivid portrayal of Belfast and its narrator struggling to lead a normal life in violent times. Andy White is a very gifted lyricist, it's not surprising to read on Wikipedia that he studied English literature at Cambridge University.
    Tim again plays with real empathy for the song's atmosphere and his vocal harmonies enhance the song.
    4,4/5
     
  9. Michael Rofkar

    Michael Rofkar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Still not a fan of Andy White's singing, but the music is fine (though the verse is quite reminiscent of "Distant Sun") and the lyric really hits home for me. 3.9/5
     
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  10. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I think I’m going to bow out until we’re done with Andy White. My inclination is to give a two or below to things I find annoying, and between our pre-Finn hourney through ALT and these two songs, I’m really finding Andy White’s vocal delivery annoying. He has a tolerable voice, but I don’t like how he chooses to use it.

    Please put me down for a 2/5 for “Jacqui,” and I’ll see you on the other side.
     
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  11. AB40

    AB40 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I feel your pain, JC! I thought we'd been talking about this album for a week, and we've only done two of five tracks.
     
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  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Jacqui"

    1-0
    2-2
    3-3
    4-4
    5-0
    Average: 3.0625
     
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  13. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "Because She Loves it, written by Andy White and Tim Finn.

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/76IPc2YBNlGbWvSZjEeUTO?si=8iPo6ltWRxqfyUwuBKgPUg

    "Because She Loves It" utilizes part of a "You've Changed" 1993 funk/Stevie Wonder pastiche that was a B side of "Hit the Ground Running." That discussion can be found here: You've Changed

    Unlike the other Tim co-writes on this song, this was recorded at Real World studios and was produced by John Leckie.

    Line up:

    Andy White: Vocals, acoustic guitar
    Karl Wallinger: lead guitar
    Ingmar Kiang:
    Tim Finn: Drums, Backing vocals
    Vika & Linda: Backing vocals

    Lyric is here:

    I got my bible and I"m going back to London
    I got my bible and I"m going back to London
    I got my bible and I"m going back to London
    I left some things htere that I shouldn't have forgotten
    There's a cool breeze blowing my thoughts around
    And if you really want to baby, we could even leave town

    At first she did it
    Because she had to
    But now she does it
    Even if she wants to
    At first she she did it
    Only if she needed to
    But now she does it
    Because she loves it
    She loves It

    I got my bible and I"m going back to London
    I got my bible and I"m going back to London
    We all gathered to go walking on the beach
    Seagulls screaming flying out of reach
    The long grass growing up past our knees
    And if you really want to you can close your eyes and see

    Because she did it
    Becasue she had to
    But now she does it
    Even if she wants to
    At first she did it
    Because she needed to
    But now she does it
    Because she loves it
    She loves It
    She loves it
    She loves it
    She loves it
    She loves it

    Because she did it
    Becasue she had to
    But now she does it
    Even if she wants to
    At first she did it
    Because she needed to
    But now she does it
    Because she loves it
    Because she did it
    Becasue she had to
    But now she does it
    Even if she wants to
    At first she did it
    Because she needed to
    But now she does it
    Because she loves it
    Because she did it
    Becasue she had to
    But now she does it
    Even if she wants to
    At first she did it
    Because she needed to
    But now she does it
    Because she loves it
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Unlike the ultra-spare production of the Periscope recordings, this one is more fully produced, with Karl Wallinger's lead guitar adding quite a lot of atmosphere and the full chorus. I think I like this approach a bit better, the ultra-minimalist approach can work for driving indie folk story songs, but Tim’s more pop flavors call for a bit more.

    This is probably my favorite song of the three songs discussed from this album so far -- I will note that I and maybe DB were about the only people who liked its original incarnation as "You've Changed"--I just really like seventies-style funk. This is not a funk song, but the chorus does retain that R&B flavor.

    My one problem is actually with Tim's singing -- I assume it's he singing the soulful "counterpoint" melody that comes in at the end. That's the kind of thing that Liam O'Maonlai was doing on the Altitude album. And there is a similar off-key thing going on here.

    That kind of thing doesn't bother me at all if it's done well -- and the idea to do it here is a good one. But another take or even another singer might have served the song better. But it certainly does't ruin the song for me or anything.

    I'll give this a 4.4.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  15. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Some corrections:

    Andy White: Vocals, bass, acoustic guitar
    and Ingmar Kiang: keyboards.
     
  16. Turk Thrust

    Turk Thrust Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.K.
    One positive thing that I'll say for this song is that at least it's not really 7 minutes long as that video threatens! :)

    Andy White just isn't a good singer though and this is a repetitive and forgettable song.

    2/5.
     
  17. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    By chorus I meant background singers, I was going to say something about the addition of them (Vika and Linda, that is) make it sound better.
     
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  18. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I've revised the above track list slightly to the following for the month of March (from tomorrow, March 1st). For those of you who are only in it for some songwriters, it might make sense for you to take heed of this so you are not shocked and horrified.
    • Whole Thing (T. Finn-A.White) 1996Andy White from Teenage (trigger warning: contains vocals by Andy White)
    • Blue You (Kev. Carmody/T. Finn/Liam O'maonlai/A.White)1996 Kev Carmody from Images and Illusions (trigger warning: contains vocals by Andy White)
    • Honeybee ((Vika Bull/Linda Bull/Michael Barker/Tim Finn/Paul Kelly) 1996 Vika & Linda from Princess Tabu
    • Princess Tabu ((V. Bull/L. Bull/M. Barker/T. Finn) 1996 Vika and LInda from Princess Tabu
    • Don't Want to Be a Nutcase (V. Bull/L.Bull/M. Barker/T. Finn) 1996 Vika & Linda from Princess Tabu

    March 6th:
    • Message to My Girl (N. Finn) 1996 Enzso featuring Neil Finn from Enzso
    • Strait Old Line (N. Finn) 1996 Enzso featuring Neil Finn from Enzso
    • Stuff and Nonsense (T. Finn) 1996 Enzso featuring Neil Finn from Enzso
    • I See Red (T. Finn) 1996 Enzso featuring Tim Finn from Enzso
    • Dirty Creature (N. Finn, T. Finn, N. Griggs) Enzso featuring Tim Finn from Enzso
    • Stranger Than Fiction/Time for A Change (P. Judd/T. Finn) Enzso, featuring Tim Finn Sam Huntand Neil Finn/Tim Finn from Enzso
    March 12th:
    • Be My Guest (N. Finn) Neil Finn live from Kitchen Sink
    • I'm So Scared of Losing I Can't Compete [Neil Finn home demo] (Neil Finn) 1995 Neil Finn from Afterglow deluxe
    • Help Is Coming (N.Finn-Nick Seymour-Mark Hart-Peter Jones) 1994 Crowded House from Afterglow
    • Anthem (N. Finn) 1995/2015 Crowded House from AFterglow deluxe
    • I Don't Know You [studio demo] (M. Hart) 1995 Crowded House from AFterglow deluxe
    • Taste of Something Divine [studio demo] 1995 (N. Finn, M.Hart, N. Seymour, P. Jones-Paddy Free)Crowded House from AFterglow deluxe
    • Spirit of the Stairs [studio demo] (N. Finn) 1995 Crowded House from AFterglow deluxe
    • Loose Tongue [studio demo] (N. Finn-Jim Moginie) 1996 Crowded House from Afterglow deluxe
    • Instinct (N. Finn) 1996 Crowded House from Recurring Dream
    • Not the Girl You Think You Are (N. Finn) 1996 Crowded House from Recurring Dream
    • Everything Is Good For You (N. Finn) 1996 Crowded House from Recurring Dream
    March 23rd
    • Recurring dream album/Farewell To the World album
    • What I Get Paid For (N. Finn)1996 Shawn Colvin from A_Few_Small_Repairs
    • Here Come the Gods (Annie Crummer/N. Finn) 1996 Annie Crummer from Seventh Wave
    • Don't Dream It's Over (N. Finn) 1997 Neil Finn from Diana, Princess of Wales Tribute
    • Marina (TS Eliot/Tim Finn) Tim Finn 1997 (warning: spoken word track with ambient music)
    March 28th
    • Derelict (Liam Finn/Matt Eccles/Joe Bramley/Chris Garland) Betchadupa recorded 1997
    • Heavy Dog (L. Finn/Eccles/Bramley/Garland) Betchadupa recorded 1997
    • Mr White (Heavy Dog) Betchadupa recorded 1997
    March 31st
    • Steel City Tim Finn (17 Days, including album discussion)
    • late nineties Tim Finn songs (about 4 days unless I discover something new))
    • Try Whistling This (14 days)
    • TWT bonus tracks (8 days)
    • assorted '99 tracks from Neil, Tim & Liam (7 days?)
    • mid to late May: Say It Is So (12 Days)
    • Etc
    As I mentioned earlier I'm set to travel on the eleventh of March to the coronavirus-ravaged wilds of Western Europe and back again on the 15th so there could possibly be a down day or two(though there hasn't been one yet); but with the Coronavirus I may not travel at all in an attempt to preserve all humanity as I'm pretty sure I'm one of these super spreaders.

    For Neil-only fans, know: besides the 18 songs in March, once Try Whistling This songs come up (third week of April or so), there should be more three weeks straight of prime Neil stuff to discuss.



     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  19. Jaffaman

    Jaffaman Senior Member

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  20. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    “Because She Loves It” is somewhat repetitive but has a nice groove and feel. I agree that the studio embellishments help it out. The backing vocalists and Wallinger’s guitar make the song better.

    3.4/5

    (Are we only covering Tim co-writes from this album and not the other songs he performs on but didn’t help write?)
     
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  21. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Thanks! It is lovely. Reaches it's full potential here. Some trivia about the song which I didn't know the day before yesterday: Tim and Andy wrote the song on literally the last day of summer, 1996, according to Andy White's essay on teenage abum.
     
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  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    That's right. The songwriting credits are included up there.

    There are a few others songs that he plays or sings on but didn't write; even one that he produced and played most of the instruments on, but I don't want to cover it.

    And that's how the thread has been going, generally -- songs they guest on or merely produce is not enough -- otherwise, we'd have done the whole Dave Dobbyn album, the Emma Paki song...."Everyday Is a Winding Road", The Ernie Croach albums, on and on and on. These guys guested quite a lot.
    You see what a slippery slope it becomes.

    I'm trying to cover songs if somehow a Finn is included in either the songwriting credit or the artist credit (e.g. if there's a "featuring" credit.)

    Obviously if they are in a group, like Split Enz/Crowded House/ALT/7 Worlds Collide/Barb/Betchadupa, I cover everything as long as they are involved. I'm treating ENZSO like an album of covers , and only covering the songs they actually sing on -- some of which are better than the originals in my opinion -- though there can be general discussion on that album and Horse then.

    So as an example of a song they didn’t write which I plan on covering: “What Am I Doing Wrong" by Delaney Davidson, for example: even though Neil did not co-write it, the credit is Delaney Davidson featuring Neil Finn. There are some others like that, too.

    I was originally going to make an exception to that rule with "My Gay Cousin" on the Andy White album, on which Tim plays most of the instruments on and produces, mainly to contrast a song from the album that he didn't write with the songs he did co-write; I had thought that Tim basically had a co-lead vocal (I'm only a little less new to these songs than the rest of you, Stefan excepted); but I was mistaken.

    He has a prominent backing vocal, as he's had on most of these songs, but not really a lead vocal. It couldn't conceivably be thought of as a Tim Finn song even though he produced it and played piano/keyboards/drums, and added vocals.

    And it may be my least favorite song on the album anyway. So I just don't think the song needs to be covered, not anymore than the Emma Paki song did.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  23. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Thanks for the detailed explanation. FYI, I'm more than happy with how you are running this and I enjoy digging into the various side trails that the Finns have explored, even if they don't lead me to anything special. That's part of the fun of this - hearing stuff that I hadn't been exposed to prior. I'm trying to approach everything new to me with an open mind. I know I've mentioned that I don't like Andy's singing a couple of times - it's not that I think he has a "bad" voice (I'm a huge Dylan and Tom Waits fan, so I know "bad" voices!), it's just that for some reason his voice detracts from or presents an obstacle to me liking/appreciating the songs where I've made that comment. That's all. On this last track, for example, I don't find his voice an impediment, perhaps due to the backing singers, including Tim. Or maybe I'm just getting used to his voice!

    I was wondering specifically about "My Gay Cousin", both because I saw how heavily Tim was involved in that recording even though he didn't co-write it and because I actually have a gay cousin. However, if you don't like the song, that's more than enough reason for me to give it a miss here.
     
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  24. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    The lyric on that song is all right.

    I think White is a good lyricist. I’ll post it as an extra tomorrow.
     
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  25. Michael Rofkar

    Michael Rofkar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    "Because She Loves It" is another "meh" for me. Tim or no Tim, that kind of repetitive music just doesn't appeal to me. 2/5
     
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