Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Robert Christgau is the most pretentious music critic in the history of the profession. I have never taken anything he says seriously. In my opinion, his only worthwhile contribution to the profession was the annual Pazz and Jop poll in the Village Voice.

 

I struggle to understand why he is held in such esteem. Compared to at least a dozen other music critics or writers I could name instantly, I've never gotten any insight of value out of Christgau. His writing is glib, sarcastic, and vapid.

 

Yep, my enthusiasm for this song took over when I wrote my post. But I still really like Can You Hear Us.

 

“Can You Hear Us” is really enjoyable. Peppy, poppy and positive - what's not to like? 4/5

 

It’s got a great chorus, but something is missing overall. No doubt living in the U.S. and being trained to view rugby as organized thuggery has something to do with my lack of connection to it. Even with that, it’s just a tad too generic a serving from our musical hero.

3/5

 

Our votes for "Can You Hear Us"

1-0
2-0
3-2
4-6
5-4
Average: 4.125

 

Today's song is "Burning Water" by Mark Lizotte, who we last encountered on this thread as a producer for the Vika & Linda album. This song has word and music by Mark Lizotte and Neil Finn. It was produced by Jerry Harrison, Gavin Macckillop, Neil Finn & Sam Gibson, recorded by Karl Derfler, Gavin Mackillop, Doug McKean, Trent Sleaton and mixed by Tom Lord-Alge.

It doesn't seem to stream in Europe.


It was included on Mark Lizotte's 1999 album Soul Lost Companion.

The line up:

Mark Lizotte: vocals, guitars, bass, wurlitzer
Guy Davies -keyboards and programming
Neil Finn-optigon organ, backing vocals
Jerry Harrison: mellotron
Prarie Prince - drums

 

Jerry Harrison from Talking Heads, I presume?

Prairie Prince was the drummer in The Tubes.

 

And he played drums on Skylarking, by XTC, one of my all-time favorite albums.

I don't have many details but the presence of Sam Gibson as co-producer (Neil and Gibson are actually credited with "additional production by") makes me think that this is a unfinished Try Whistling This outtake (another optigan demo?) that Neil gave to Mark Lizotte, who finished it song-writing and production-wise with the other producers/instrumentalists in LA and NYC.

 

Same here! I had no idea that Prairie Prince played on that!

 

This song single-handedly saved me from making a fool of myself when I visited NZ in 2006. Having noticed the different pronunciation (compared to that in Six Monthis in a Leaky Boat) I took the time to investigate. Not that I used the name often, but it was reassuring to know that I wasn't going to goof as/when I chose to use it.

I've been intrigued by several comments about an aversion to this song due to the tribalism of sport. As a long-time football/soccer fan who belated started to enjoy the more egg-chasing version , I also find tribalism to be something that can be pretty repulsive. I witnessed the worst of 1980's football crowd violence which still lurks under a lot of football support. But I think there's an inherent desire in all/most of us to belong. Whether that manifests itself in community or family or friendship groups or even - dare I say it - interest groups (such as we have here), I think the notion of declaring fellowship/kinship is a strong one.

I have grown to think of NZ as my "second country" in the sense that, if life worked out differently, I would gladly choose to live there. Despite that, I still can't bring myself to wholeheartedly engage in a song that acts as a cheerleader for it's nation's rugby team (given that I, obviously, root for England) and yet, the non-specific nature of the lyric and chorus makes it easy to use this song as a vehicle to release the instinctive urge to display my urge to belong, to be part of a crowd. As a result, I find it impossible to resist the adrenaline rush that comes from throwing myself into this song as a vehicle for some tub-thumping spirit-lifting.

 

Beyond being impressed that you've even heard of rugby, I'd be interested in your views on American football As one who enjoys the game (I'm a sucker for pretty much any sport that doesn't involve a) animals and, b) subject assessment) it just seems like rugby but with protective equipment. Using your description, organised thuggery with pads and visors doesn't seem that much of a step up... But I digress...

 

I don’t see either one as thuggery so much, but I’d put American football as the more thuggish of the two. I’ve known college level players (Well one) whose grandest ambition was to create a quadriplegic through playing: and those were his exact words.

American football does things I’m pretty sure would be called fouls in rugby (thus the need for armor); also rugby Is a much faster-paced ball game while football is more like chess With big guys as the players. And professional American football is unbearable because Of the commercials!! High school football is where it’s at. Though I am still not too interested.

I like what what you are saying about this need to belong; well-said. But the negative tribalism is only a hop Away,.I’m quite freaked out by those displays personally.

I don’t know why: to be honest I have issues even seeing concerts live for that reason. I guess I have no need to belong! I’m wired oddly in that I’d much rather be in Front of a crowd than be part of it, so maybe it’s just ego and a fear of submitting it to the larger crowd ego.

But I agree the song is really uplifting despite all that.

 

That thuggery line was just tossed off and tongue in cheek, my apologies. Certainly football here could be labeled similarly without too much exaggeration (god knows WWF or something like extreme fighting could be!). Your thoughts about belonging are spot on and we all need some type of social identifications. Getting lost in and feeling the power of a crowd is exhilarating as well. It’s a force that can be transformative but of course also be used to manipulate people for....thuggery. LOL

 

Lyric for Burning Water:

There's something under the table
All the bones in the closet
They'll be rattled 'til morning
I've got my head down

All I wanted was water
A cigarette and a blindfold
Nothings ever that easy
There will be no rest now

A washed-up head
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
A lathered soul
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
(come down easy)

All that glitters is good
All that's buried is gold gone bad
I'd tell the judge and the jury
But they can't save my

washed up-head
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
A lathered soul
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
Look at me
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
(comes down easy, come down easy)

Try to change the dimension
Therés always somebody spitting on the ground
Gravity's an elixir
When we hit bottom I know that sound

washed up-head
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
A lathered soul
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
Look at me
Burning water, we're sailing upon it
Like I'm the one
Burning water, we're sailing upon it

(Come down easy)

 

Mark Lizotte has a beautiful, supple soulful voice (sexy, I want to say) and I think this it is a pretty good song with some stellar instrumental work by all involved -- the guitars by Lizotte in particular standing out to me, but the various and keyboards drumming makes it mark as well.

. Lyrically, I can't make much clear sense about it and it's hard to figure out how much of this song is Neil's and how much Lizotte's: however, we do seem to be be firmly back in that dark 90s near-Gothic gloom rock that Neil was exploring in the late nineties.

Images of "burning water" "heads washed up on the beach", "bones in the closet", "gold gone bad buried in the ground"-- there's something vaguely reminiscent of "Only Talking Sense": secrets, dark memories, emotional suffering of soul, washed in burning water...some baptismal Christian imagery there, but turned on it's head. Very 90s in general I think.

The usual guilt 'n' fist-shakin' at religion, I suppose.

After the last two days of sunnier, peppier pop songs, it almost feels like backtracking to go back here -- but whatever. This is a good rock song and deserved release, so I'm glad it got it -- the album it came from, by the way, hit number 18 on the Australian charts, so a minor hit there.

4.0/5/

 

When he's positive, I like his writing. But yeah, when he's negative, screw him. Hipster trash.

 

"Burning Water" is a really good song. Lizotte's voice reminds me of somebody else's voice whom I can't pin down. Not somebody famous; more like a journeyman American band from the late 1990s. It'll come to me at some point.

I hear Neil mainly in the electric piano melody in the verses (he didn't play it, but it sounds like something drawn from his melodic arsenal). Solid track that makes me interested to hear what the rest of this album sounds like.

4.1/5

 

I was just about to bang on about how I feel the same way, and why, and how it manifests itself in my life and behaviour and friendships etc...but then I wondered whether identifying too much with this would count as needing to belong to a group of non-belongers ?

 

Oh, I totally know what you me-- AW, SON OF A BI+CH!

 

The medium rock beat and very Neil-ish chord changes make "Burning Water" sound like a Crowded House song to me. I'd like to hear NF sing it! 4/5

 

Back in the 90s a friend of mine would hang out with a group who all liked to dress all in black being they were being different. I guess the irony was lost on them.

My problem is that I want to belong but I don't like being part of a crowd. To paraphrase Lance and Hessie... I like to watch the crowd

 

"I love humanity. It's people I can't stand."

 

“I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members.”

 

Burning Water should still move me, but it doesn't any more. There's nothing wrong with it, I liked it a lot better when I first heard it around 20 years ago, but like a lot of music I loved in the 1990s and early 2000s, it's not something I ever pull out and listen to now (Marshall Crenshaw, Springsteen, John Hiatt, U2, etc.) I hear lots of things I still like in it, but I've moved on. I feel a little badly about it, but it's the way it is.

3/5