Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Disturbing/funny "official" video for "Underwater Mountain". A work of art in itself but not one that supports the song, in my opinion.

 

I fear I'm going to be a lone voice on this song. I find it's melody to be very average. Not bad, but a very underwhelming start to an album. 3/5

 

My review will come later, but I don't think you'll be the lone voice. For one there are a lot of people who plain just dislike Tim Finn, full stop. I love his music but honestly dread going over because after about four days people start complaining.

But also, from what I've seen here and on Frenz.com, people tend to fall into two camps: those that prefer his more conventional pop first four albums and those that think his 1999-2011 work is his best work (post Split Enz and not counting collaborations with Neil, of course).

I'm the latter. As for the mastering, it bother me less than others -- to be honest, every Finn related album from Afterglow on has loud mastering.

 

Just heard it for the first time. I had to keep the volume way down. Tim sounded more Neil-ish than usual, both vocally and in terms of songwriting and arranging, But it struck me as something Neil would have done as an initial demo, but then added something to make it more interesting. It feels nice but kind of generic, and the brickwalling definitely does it no favors: 2.7/5

 

Collated ratings for Miscellaneous '99 songs

• I Can See Clearly Now 3.8818
• Can You Hear Us 4.125
• Burning Water 3.775
• Exquisite Stereo 3.9625
• Melon-Cauli Baby 2.6
• Neville the Enchanted Rug 3.4
• The Girl From Godknowswhere 3.575
• Perfect Stranger 3.4333
• Dream Girl 3.1833

 

New playlist:

For anyone reading this thread sometime and curious about the Finn Brothers, I've made playlists of all the songs that we've covered so far that were voted 3.75 or above, i.e. the cream of the crop. Of course, there are songs I really like that are missing from this playlist; and Im sure others will feel the same way, but that's democracy! If you're lucky enough to be in a territory where you can legally stream these songs, try it out.
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Finn Brothers Playlist 1:1973-1977 ( 79 minutes)
Not everyone is a fan of the Finn-Judd songs and at times during the discussion of this era, only robcar and I were voting! Still, it made a nice playlist. I've color coded the songs: by songwriter: Purple=Judd-finn Red=Judd,(Blue=Tim Finn including co-writes)Orange=Neil Finn [incluing co-writes0 [ Green=Neil Finn/Tim Finn collaborations] Pink =Eddie Rayner Magenta =Liam Finn [including co-writes] Brown=other

1. For You: 3.78
2. MalmsBury Villa: 4.66
3. Spellbound: 4.66
4. Walking Down the Road [Mental Notes]: 4
5. Amy: 4
6. Maybe: 4
7. Late Last Night 4.5
8. Titus: 4.5[Second Thoughts]
9. Sweet Dreams: 4.75
10. Stranger Than Fiction [Second Thoughts]
11. Time for a Change [Second Thoughts]
12. Matinee Idyll 4.66
13. The Woman Who Loves You: 4
14. Bold AS BRass --3.75
15. My Mistake --4.35
16. Parrot Fashion Love: 4.25
17. Nice To Know 3.82
18. Without a Doubt 4.13

Finn Brothers Playlist 2 1977-1980(70 minutes)

1. So This Is Love 3.9
2. Semi-Detached: 4.38
3. I See Red: 4.6
4. Give It a Whirl: 4.85
5. Master Plan 3.9
6. Famous People: 3.925
7. Hermit McDermitt: 4.15
8. Stuff and Nonsense 4.333
9. Teh Roughest Toughest Game in the World: 3.9
10. Betty: 4.14
11. Mind Over Matter: 4.233
12. Things: 3.8571428
13. Shark Attack: 3.83
14. I Got You: 4.8333...
15. What's the Matter With You: 3.8428571
16. I Wouldn't Dream of It: 3.8625
17. I HOpe I Never: 3.94
18. Nobody Takes Me Seriously: 4.17
19. Missing Person: 4.41111
20. Poor Boy: 4.6090909

Finn Brothers Playlist 3 1981-1984(77 minutes)

1. Hard Act to Follow: 4.133333
2. One Step Ahead: 4.78888
3. Iris: 4.0125
4. History Never Repeats: 4.8571428
5. Ships: 4.34
6. Dirty Creature: 4.644444 (9)
7. Hello Sandy Allen 4.2428571
8. Small World: 4.36
9. Take a Walk: 4.22
10. Pioneer: 4.425
11. Six Months in a Leaky Boat: 4.75
12. Haul Away: 4.0857142
13. Next exit 3.86
14. Remember When 4.1
15. Through the Years: 3.82222
16. Message To My Girl: 4.625
17. Our Day: 4.0363636
18. The Devil You KNow: 4.4
19. Breakin' My Back 3.77
20. I Walk Away: 4.175
21. Years Go By: 4.2444444
22. Voices 3.776923

Finn Brothers Playlist 4 1985-1989 (78 minutes)

1. Recurring Dream 4.7222
2. No Thunder No Fire No Rain 3.8143
3. Hyacinth: 4.46
4. Big Canoe: 3.75
5. Mean to Me 4.3333
6. World Where You LIve 4.3273
7. Now We're Getting Somewhere 4.0818
8. Don't Dream It's Over 4.9143
9. Something So Strong 4.407
10. Hole In the River 4.4769
11. I Walk Away 3.96
12. Throw Your Arms Around Me 4.2
13. I Feel Possessed 4.38
14. Into Temptation 4.8222
15. When You Come: 4.1125
16. Never Be the Same 4.1941
17. Love This Life: 4.5143
18. In the Low Lands 3.9958
19. Better Be Home Soon 4.7535
20. She's Not There: 4.1667

Finn Brothers Playlist 5 1989-1991(67 minutes)

1. Young Mountain 4.2083
2. Not Even Close 4.3107
3. How'm I Gonna Sleep 4.033
4. Parihaka 4.0667
5. Suicide on Downing Street 3.775
6. Crescendo 4.1566
7. Been There Done That 3.9111
8. Parihaka single [version] 4.3545
9. I Love You Dawn 3.8636
10. Time Immemorial 3.9962
11. Prodigal Sun 3.75
12. Fall At Your Feet 4.9357
13. Whispers and Moans 4.751
14. As Sure AS I Am 4.05
15. Italian Plastic 3.9474
16. She Goes On 4.9063
17. Anyone Can Tell 3.9808
18. Not Made Of Stone 3.9929

Finn Brothers Playlist 6 1991-1993 (72 minutes)

1. It's Only Natural 4.8719
2. WEather With You 4.5033
3. Four Seasons in ONe Day 4.9
4. There Goes God 4.01
5. All I Ask 3.863
6. How Will You Go 4.9167
7. Throw Your Arms Around Me [Finn Brothers version] 3.78
8. In Love With It All 4.8786
9. Strangeness and Charm 4.57
10. Hit the Ground Running 4.06
11. Walk You Home 3.9556
12. Secret Heart 4.0875
13. Persuasion 4.4487
14. Many's the Time (In Dublin) 4.1875
15. Protected 4.1393
16. In Your Sway 4.3909
17. Persuasion [acoustic]
18. One Side Only [demo] 3.875
19. Stand Back --Wendy Matthews 3.8875

Finn Brothers Playlist 7 1993-1995 (80 minutes)

1. Kare Kare 4.7619
2. In My Command 4.4237
3. Nails In My Feet 4.7395
4. Black And White Boy 3.776
5. Fingers of Love 4.4396
6. Pineapple Head 4.4905
7. Locked Out 3.95
8. Private Universe 4.9452
9. Walking On the Spot 3.78
10. Distant Sun 4.6119
11. Catherine Wheels 4.6275
12. Together Alone 4.6562
13. I Am In Love 4.0357
14. Convent Girls 4.09
15. Dots on the Shell 4.0889
16. Private Universe [Acoustic/Zen Mix] 4.4538
17. The Refuge Tree 3.9714 ALT
18. What You've Done 3.8444 ALT
19. I Decided to Fly 4.3 ALT

Finn Brothers Playlist 8 1995-1996 (76 minutes)

1. Only Talking Sense 4.425
2. Eyes of the World 3.9458
3. Mood Swinging Man 3.925
4. Last Day of June 4.5367
5. Suffer Never 3.925
6. Angel's Heap 4.6906
7. Where Is My Soul 4.0533
8. Paradise (Wherever You Are) 3.8083
9. Mary of the South Seas 3.8714
10. Whole Thing 4.5 Andy White
11. Stuff and Nonsense 3.9 Enzso
12. Stranger Than Fiction/Time for a Change 4.27 Enzso
13. Be My Guest 3.8618
14. Help Is Coming 4
15. Spirit Of the Stairs [studio demo] 3.9778
16. Instinct 4.0269
17. Here Come the Gods 3.97 --Annie Crummer

Finn Brothers Playlist 9: 1998-1999 (78 minutes)

1. Drop Out 3.86
2. Rock & Roll Girl 3.75
3. Road Trip [Acoustic version] 4.0571
4. Glide 3.8571
5. Last One Standing 4.23
6. King Tide 4.7364
7. Try Whistling This 4.2588
8. She Will Have Her Way 4.6688
9. Sinner 4.0941
10. Truth 4.33
11. Astro 4.2538
12. Faster Than Light 4.8467
13. Addicted 3.94
14. Identical Twin: 4.1667
15. Spirit of the Stairs: 4.2667
16. Spill the Light 3.7875
17. I Can See Clearly Now
18. Can You Hear Us
19. Burning Water
20. Exquisite Stereo

 

Underwater Mountain:

Well, I don't think it sounds at all like a Neil song -- certainly not anything he'd done on his own since the mid-80s and certainly not a Neil demo! Too bright and cheerful. If it resembles any Neil songs, it's Woodface and, well, uh, that's because those were Tim co-writes.

I hear very little Neil influence in Tim's music in general, other than some general focus on conventional pop ballads on Tim Finn in 1989, as I always feel he was trying to get a "Don't Dream It's Over" style hit -- and even those songs didn't sound like Neil.

Rather I'd say that this song is a return of the Tim Finn that wrote the spritely folk-pop of "For You", "She Got Body, She Got Soul" "Without a Doubt" and "Six Months In a Leaky Boat." But not really a return. In fact, I think this is just a more sweetened version of the kind of music that he had recorded earlier in 1998 for Steel City and had been doing since Altitude -- the same indie-folk, acoustic guitar-based aesthetic, wedded to a folk-pop melody that is quite simple and sweet.

The lyric is a blending of familiar Tim Finn motifs: the mountains and the water, along with a bit of the same Jungian symbolism of "Dirty Creature." This is very much the light, bright side of that song: while in "Dirty Creature" Tim saw the subconscious mind as a place from whence terrors arose: a "Dirty Creature" that could come and possess him; here he sees the hidden life as a beautiful mountain, a source for creativity; the claustrophobic deep dark lake here is transformed into the boundless sunlit southern sea.

The vocal melody is sweet and singable, and the strings (or synth strings?) add depth and texture, as does the dual bass-guitar lines and the gorgeous pedal steel. I am a sucker for pedal steel, I think it's one of the most beautiful sounding instruments in the world, so hearing it so well-played here definitely does not hurt: and it just fits the song, sounding like glimmers of light on the deep blue sea (to me). And the general, snappy jingle-jangle of the sound is one that I really respond to.

A word about the vocal: yes, Tim Finn's vocal is certainly not the high pure sound of the 70s and early 80s, nor the more tempered but still technically impressive sound of the early 90s; it's been worn from a life of singing, drinking and living. But it's not the painful, almost ill sound that he had in 1995-1995, either. And in fact, there is no way that the younger Tim Finn would have sounded as good on this song; he would not have been able to technically handle a vocal pitched this low.

For me the older Tim Finn voice, while technically less impressive than the first half of his career has much more character: I mean it always had character (compare Gary Dyson's vocals on the Southern Cross album -- now that is some character-free vocalizing) but here I think Tim sounds like what he actually was: older, wiser, content, happy and basically out of f's*s to give.

I definitely give this song an unequivocal 5/5, the first of several on this album. It's probably one of my top ten favorite Tim Finn solo songs.

As for the mastering...yes, it is mastered too loud, but I hold it against the song no more than I hold it against, say, "Sacred Cow"which came out around the same time. All music from this era and even up to now often sounds this way, sadly. Fortunately, it doesn't bother me quite as much as a lot of people on this board!

*you know what I mean by "f's" don't you?

 

I really like Underwater Mountain. I didn't get familiar with this album, and even more so the few that followed it, as family/life events distracted me. I did buy it and did play it, and recognised it as a good album. But, I didn't learn the songs.

As a low budget album it doesn't have the sheen that some other albums have, and the sound quality has been lowered further by the excessive compression. So, it sounds a bit indistinct.

But, the quality of the songs stand out. I've always been of the opinion that the quality of the songwriting is more important than the arranging and production (within limits). And, this is an example of that. I think the arrangements on the song and album

Tim's voice was a bit of a shock to me, and this has effected how quickly I got familiar with the album (decades now.) 'Oh no, Tim can't sing any more' was my reaction at the time. Now, I'm more used to it and it sort of suits the song and album.

Perhaps I'll have to repeat some of the above when summing up the album.

Underwater Mountain is a really nice song which doesn't pull out all the stops to be a hit. But, I find it very listenable and enjoyable.

The video clip is a bit weird, and I'm not sure it's weird in a good way. But, that won't change my rating of the song.

4.2/5

 

Underwater Mountain hits me in much the same way it does @HitAndRun , I agree with much of what he said. And although I know Tim's pre-1997 work better, I actually enjoy his post-1997 work more.

Tim's post-94 vocal limitations don't bother me, he may not be as strong a singer, but he is a much stronger, more intimate vocalist.

4.2/5

 

I've been too busy to post in a while (and haven't known some of the material discussed), but I enjoy this track.

Tim's voice is a little thin, but I think the production suits him much better than some of the now dated 1980s recordings.

Not exactly the greatest song ever or anything, but it skips along at a good pace and is a decent choice of opener.

3.5/5.

 

Since you weren't on the Beach Boys thread, either, I though you had the Dreaded Virus!

 

Has anyone had the virus? @Lance LaSalle, your avatar looks a bit worrying, even though it shouldn't be bad where you are.

 

Hopefully I should be able to post on most of the songs from here onwards...

 

I’m not sure why I never listened to this album all that much. I always enjoy Tim’s albums, but for some reason, other than Before and After, I don’t really get to know them. Maybe it’s the arrangement/production choices. The songs are usually pretty strong, but something always seems to be a little lacking for me.

Underwater Mountain is a nice song I think I would like more without the strings and background vocals which sound a little too adult contemporary for me.

I actually prefer Tim’s older, weathered voice to his very young Split Enz voice.

3/5

 

no, no, I'm as healthy as, well, I normally am, which is not particularly.

It's the law here to wear these masks outside the house.

Things loosened up a bit today; my son went back to school for the first time since mid-March! He was excited.

And yes, this country has been only lightly affected...well, healthwise. Obviously the economy is in shambles. We didn't quite do as well as NZ but considering that every middle class Czech in the coutnry goes to N. Italy in March to ski, they have done an admirable job of containing it. My region in particular is hardly affected and probably half of the people who have come down with it are probably actually living in Prague but their official address is here so they get counted here. We've had only two deaths in the entire region of about 500 000 people. So far. One was just yesterday, though-- the only death in the whole country.

 

I love this song. I think it’s a great idea, first of all, with some terrific lines in there (“in danger of becoming a stranger to yourself”). It’s adult effervescent pop, and you can’t beat that in my book.
I think the outro probably goes on a bit too long/is too repetitious, but no big deal.
I don’t know what happened to his voice. I remember hearing this the first time and being very worried for him. He was only what, 48 years old when this came out? I expect people will lose their young falsetto voice as they get older but this was more than that. I had the same worries for Neil because he continued smoking into middle age, but somehow he has managed to more than get by. He and we are lucky for that.
4.6/5

 

“No particularly”, huh Lance? Step up your game man! Seriously, we can’t f around these days and you are needed round these parts.

BTW, “Prince of Swollen Sinus” sounds like the title of an unreleased Andy Partridge song.

 

The missus and me have both had covid-19. Bloody awful, don't recommend it!

 

Sorry to hear this. I hope you're both fully recovered now.

 

Oh yes thanks. Took it out of us big time. I have "underlying" health issues having struggled with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for many years, but I'm getting there.

 

"Underwater Mountain" is one of my favorite songs by Tim, I absolutely love it. The orchestration really adds to the somewhat dark feel of the song. I've never seen the video before, but I thought the animation worked really well with the song. Very cool. This is the start of a great run of albums from Tim, IMO.
5+/5

 

Falafels, clearly.

 

"Underwater Mountain" is a rousing opener for Say It Is So. Tim sounds refreshed and almost effervescent here. I love the feel of the song - it has a breezy quality that makes me think of being outside on a sunny day in a place of great natural beauty. The melody is good but it's missing that undefinable something that would elevate the song to classic status for me.

4.0/5

 

Yep - this nails it. I like the ease and the flow but it's not one where I walk away feeling I've encountered something profound.

4/5

 

This is a recurring theme for me with Tim songs, there is plenty of melody to enjoy, and nothing to dislike, but....but what ? there is just something missing that stops Tim being one of my favourite artists, and it frustrates me to not be able to work out what the problem is. All I can come up with is that his songs sound too conventional, so that you can subconsciously predict where the melody is going next.

"Underwater Mountain" is so typical of this problem - I enjoy listening to it and would never turn it off, but I am in no particular rush to listen to it again.

4/5