Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. iarla

    iarla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Now I Get It is another one I like a lot, there's a delicious contrast between the verse and chorus and it's an interesting arrangement and mix. There's an emotional/musical relief in the chorus that is one of those things that Neil Finn seems to do in songs. (There's echoes of "One Step Ahead" in there for me).

    This might be that I'm perversely drawn to the B-Sides and obscurities - I'd probably love to see a Neil Finn show where he opened with "Orange & Blue", had "Elastic Heart", "Divebomber", "Log Cabin Fever" and "Log Drums" in the set at various points.

    Oh, I'd hope that he doesn't give a **** about what we think. He does his thing, we do ours, everyone benefits :)
     
  2. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    No!! The thoughts of a few obsessive fans won't matter as much as his circle of friends and colleagues, which I don't imagine includes any sycophants. As his career progresses, he seems to follow his muse more than his economic interests.

    I'd be fine if he had dropped in and lurked, I'm confident he's secure enough as an artist that he can take our opinions as exactly what they are ... opinions.
     
  3. Mooserfan

    Mooserfan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eastern PA
    You know I was kind of joking but...actually Neil has shown himself to be quite sensitive when he was on Twitter, especially regarding Crowded House. So I don’t know…I hope he never reads this stuff! :D Sorry for the digression, Lance.
     
  4. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well, I don't mind.

    Neil is, of course, not the only artist we discuss; and people are way harsher on Tim and especially Liam than Neil.

    But anyway, I think there is criticism and there is criticism: there is a school of thought in which one describes a piece and how it fits into an artist's overall body of work and then offers an opinion on whether they like it or not and maybe how it intersects with their personal lives; and there is a school of criticism that tries to find fault in a piece, using a sort of check list of things that the critic has decided is negative. The latter would annoy any artist, I would think. The former, might not.Most fans tend to be the former, and that's why I think fans are actually the best critics, as they see the nuances in the work that a professional critic who is writing to a deadline does not.

    It's so easy to be negative about a song; so much harder to write and record one.

    Any songwriter with a long career is driven by and absolutely filled with music that needs to get out, whether it's well-received or popular or not. It's just too hard to do for years -- Neil and to a lesser degree Tim are lucky in that they had a couple of hits that set them for life, because I doubt if they would have a very easy life otherwise -- but I'm sure they would still be creating.

    Neil seems kind of a pretty good judge of his own work, or at least he knows what connects and what doesnt, any performer does -- it's not like he does "Family Ties" in concert very often.

    Many of the songs that people like the least are outtakes or forgotten deep cuts. Even if they make the album, they don't last in his sets if they are lesser songs.

    I think that he's unusually generous not in the fact that he's released stuff like these B-sides, but in the fact that he probably doesn't regard many of these songs as masterpieces himself; and yet he allows us to hear them for free, knowing that we want to do so. He gets fans.

    The thing is, any artist's job is just to follow their muse and keep creating -- ultimately they should ignore criticism, even their own, especially if it impacts their work.

    By the way, in the promo interview for One Nil, he mentioned a friend in Australia -- he didn't use name -- who told him the only good song on ONe Nil was "Elastic Heart"; so he has people in his own circle who offer opinions.

    I also have an interview with Neil and Tim where they say that their father [used to] rate their songs on a scale of one to ten and if he rated a song 7 or below they had second thoughts about putting it on an album, because "7"meant he hated it! They said he "hated" "Kiss the Road of Raratonga", for example. I guess they were probably short of songs, though.

    So, Neil or Tim on a bad day might be thin-skinned with a thread like this, but I think they get the idea, at least intellectually.

    Importantly, I would hope and I believe that Neil or Tim understand that we are kind of geeking out to his/their music by criticising it positively or negatively and that ultimately by coming here every day for a few minutes to discuss his work, it is actually a sign of our great respect.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  5. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    Absolutely. If we didn’t overwhelmingly love most of the music, we wouldn’t be here.
     
  6. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    Yeah, I dig it. I get this one. I can see it being a See Ya Round era demo quite easily. The lyrics could use maybe one more go-over, but I can still see a narrative in there (call me crazy, but in my little brain it's a companion piece to "Nails in My Feet"). I like it. I bet a "finished" version would be up there in my pantheon.

    3.5/5
     
  7. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    "Now I Get It" is a definite step up from "Underestimated". It's still b-side quality as it's not as good as even the weakest cut on One Nil, but it's a decent song in its own right. This is about as far as Neil has ever gone in the funk/R&B direction, which isn't a natural for him. There's a nice melody that works well with the choppy guitar and the beat. I like this, but don't love it.

    3.3/5
     
  8. Michael Rofkar

    Michael Rofkar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    "Now I Get It" is an odd hybrid. The vocals are typical Neil - lush and pretty - but the rhythm track sounds like garage funk. As has been noted, the bass part leaves something to be desired (like being played by Nigel Griggs). 3/5
     
  9. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    "Now I Get It" sounds like an unfinished, experimental pop song that got disguised as a funk track. I hear a lot of untapped potential in this song but it sounds under-developed and too short. Very good singing by Neil. I can't imagine this song came anywhere close to being considered for the album but it is certainly a worthy bonus track on a single.
    2,8/5
     
  10. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Now I Get It"

    1-1
    2-3
    3-6
    4-5
    5-0
    Average: 2.9067
     
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  11. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today we have two songs, acoustic covers of some R&B classics: Billie Jean, written by Michael Jackson and Sexual Healing, written by Marvin Gaye, Odell Brown and David Ritz. These covers were both performed on an Australian radio prorgram called The Andrew Denton Breakfast Show, in a segment called the Musical Challenge, presumably during which performers are called upon to cover songs. One of the songs was released on a compilation of these covers in 2000; the other was released on another compilation in 2001.

    I have a few other covers performed by both Tim and Neil on radio programs on my hard drive; my intention is to only hold up for discussion those that have been released. Of course, I do not have a list of every single release released by radio stations across the world in the last 50 years; as far as I know these are the only ones that have seen official, physical release. If there are more, let me know.

    Tomorrow, we'll start on the Finn songs from the Rain soundtrack.

    Here's "Billie Jean."
     
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  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    And here's "Sexual Healing."
     
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  13. HitAndRun

    HitAndRun Forum Resident

    These are very interesting. They aren't meant to be proper Neil songs of course, but a part of the challenge.

    Neil does a good job with both of them, rising to the challenge. While his vocal sometimes contains aspects of the originals, the acoustic guitar backings makes them more of his own.

    Some of the lyrics seem quite out of place given how they are utterly different to what Neil normally writes. 'I'm hot like an oven, I need some loving.'

    The acoustic guitar however makes them very CH-like. So, that makes a nice contrast between the originals and these versions.

    I'm not sure about these songs being the best choice for such an album, but this makes me think that I'd happily buy an album of Neil covering his favourite songs with just voice and acoustic guitar.

    EDIT: I mean to write that I wasn't going to rate them numerically as I can't compare them to other songs recorded for other purposes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
  14. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I agree. I was very surprised by how well he pulled off "Billie Jean"--I really enjoyed that one and would listen again. "Sexual Healing," on the other hand, didn't work quite as well--it's just a little too far from what he's good at (IMHO)--but he still did better with it than I might have expected.
     
  15. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    I see both of these for what they are: a bit of mild amusement. The fact that Neil almost pulls Billie Jean off (to coin a phrase) is a bonus but, in truth, neither of these stand up to much scrutiny. They're curios. That said, it might have been interesting if Neil had wanted to work on these with a band rather than just learning the chords and having a stab.

    BJ: 3/5
    SH: 2/5.
     
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  16. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    Billie Jean - I think Neil does a surprisingly good job on this one. He even manages to keep a good amount of the soulful feeling of the original.

    BJ: 3.5/5


    Sexual Healing - This one doesn’t work nearly as well. No real soulfulness in this one, so what should be seductive comes off rather flat and a little uncomfortable. :help:

    SH: 2.25/5
     
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  17. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Neil's performances of Billie Jean and Sexual Healing were meant to be entertainment. They don't feel like art, although they come close by virtue of Neil's talent. They are exercises in skill, if anything. I've had these for years, and while they're mildly amusing, I've never enjoyed them for anything but their novelty, which was the sole intention in the first place.

    I can't rate either too lowly, because neither is execrable, but I can't rate either much higher, because they are insignificant.

    Billie Jean 2/5
    Sexual Healing 2.1/5
     
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  18. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    These two are fun novelties. Neil does a surprisingly good job with "Billie Jean," maintaining some of the song's edginess while making the lyrics actually comprehensible (most of MJ's lyrics don't really hold up to close scrutiny, but these aren't bad).

    I've never liked "Sexual Healing" because of the whininess and selfishness of the song's protagonist, a whininess emphasized by Marvin Gaye's original vocal. Neil tones down that element, thank goodness, and it's kind of fun to hear the song played with the Maori strum. Overall, though, Neil's performance is fairly bland. That may be unavoidable with just an acoustic guitar and a solo voice.

    "Billie Jean": 3/5
    "Sexual Healing": 2.5/5
     
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  19. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    Lance, I thought we were going to devote a day to "There Is a Light" and another day to the rest of 7 Worlds Collide before turning to the Rain soundtrack. Is that no longer the plan? 7 Worlds Collide is one of my favorite Finn projects, and I've been looking forward to the discussion.
     
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  20. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    WE are, I actually meant to edit that out.
     
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  21. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    BJ: 3/5 -- fun.
    SH: 1/5, just doesn't work at all. I also am not a huge fan of the original; but what charm it had doesn't really come across with acoustic guitar and voice.
     
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  22. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    Funny- when I read Lance's initial post about these being the songs of the day, I thought to myself "I don't know that I'll rate these," even though I'm very familiar with them. Lo and behold, there was @HitAndRun saying the very same thing right below!
    There were three "Musical Challenge" releases that I know of, and I don't even remember what it was that prompted me to order them all from Australia in the first place (It may have been Tenacious D doing "Beds Are Burning" by Midnight Oil). But sure enough, there was some Neil Finn lurking. It's difficult to rate these at all, as the entire collection of covers seems very tongue in cheek and sort of dashed out as a throwaway, and not really any sort of creative/artistic statement or output. That said, they are all *really* fun, so I can't rate these two tracks, but I can recommend the whole kit and kaboodle for the novelty value.
     
  23. dthomas850

    dthomas850 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I've had both of these for quite a while, I like 'em both.
    Billie Jean 4/5
    Sexual Healing 3/5
     
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  24. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    I like the idea of this musical challenge on Andrew Denton's show. As I've understood it the artists get to pick sheets out of a hat and they then have to play that song (please correct me if I've misunderstood the concept), the idea being that it will be a song that is outside of the artist's comfort zone.
    I find Neil's cover of "Billie Jean" really good and in my opinion much better than his/CH's covers of "I Can See Clearly Now", "She's Not There" and (gasp) "Throw Your Arms Around Me". In each of those cases I feel his/their covers are pretty "safe", seemingly intended to be as close to the originals as possible. With "Billie Jean" I think Neil has achieved a more original cover, very different to the original.
    "Sexual Healing" is also very good for the same reason but just slightly less interesting than "Billie Jean".
    "Billie Jean": 4/5
    "Sexual Healing": 3,7/5
     
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  25. therunner

    therunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    I agree with the general consensus that "Billie Jean" works better than "Sexual Healing". I have never seen the Andrew Denton shows but I'm assuming these covers were done live in one take, or else Neil would have been able to correct his fluffing of the first chorus on "Billie Jean". But who cares, it's just a bit of fun, and the proceeds from the CDs went to a Children's Hospital so well done to all involved.

    Other covers I've heard from Neil are the ones on Dutch TV from 1998, including "Venus" (Shocking Blue), "You Sexy Thing" (Hot Chocolate), and "Nowhere Man" (some band from Liverpool). These are fun (occasionally) but "You Sexy Thing" doesn't really work too well.

    Billie Jean 3/5
    Sexual Healing 2/5
     
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