Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    Amsterdam - It's interesting to read the comments about this song before writing my own (and necessarily puts me at a disadvantage because you are all so eloquent!).
    In any case, this is a stand-out track on Intriguer. The production and instrumentation is pared back a bit more which I much prefer. Also the arrangement has this nice atmosphere - the kind of giddiness tempered with a kind of tarnish (exactly how one might feel in some of these big cities like Amsterdam or Paris). In any case, there's an emotional connection to this song that I didn't feel with the previous two songs which will elevate the rating for this song.

    4/5
     
  2. jcr64

    jcr64 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana
    I have mixed feelings about "Archer's Arrows" (and apologies to Lance for the late entry). I quite like the verses, and I really enjoy Nick's playing in the verses. But then the chorus comes, and the song quickly becomes overwrought; the part from "the whole facade is wearing thin" on really is a bit much. The archer came close, but missed. 3.5/5

    I had two days in Amsterdam a few years ago, feeling off-kilter, tired, and vaguely ill after a trans-Atlantic flight, and Crowded House's "Amsterdam" was an excellent soundtrack as I stumbled around the city (though I never came close to falling under the tram). The other song alternating in an endless loop through my head in those two days, Guster's "Amsterdam," was less apt for my experience, though it's still a great song. Anyway, Crowded House's "Amsterdam" nicely captures the out-of-sorts, out-of-place, unsettled feeling of being in a strange city, unsure or where to go or what to do. The guitar work here is excellent. I don't think the song is absolutely top-rank, but it's very good. 4/5
     
  3. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    I struggle with the rest of Side One I'm afraid. They all fall into the "recognize it's quality but don't want to listen" category. The sound of the album is partly responsible because that heavy compression and limiting really works against this music. But I even find the live version of Amsterdam to be meandering melodically. The kind of thing Neil can write in his sleep. I also find his voice rarely sits well in dissonant harmony, though I like Kill Eye (the space in that production would've helped this song). Lyrics are cool, I'll give it that. Oh well, just my opinion.
     
  4. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    I can't get into Archer's Arrows the way so many people seem to be able to. It just doesn't work for me. The singing, the words, it just doesn't click. But, I don't want to screw up the ratings since I'm coming in late, so I'll hold off on a score. But the average would go down.

    Amsterdam is background music, but I kind of like the chorus. Maybe it's more of a grower.
    3.5/5
     
  5. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    "Amsterdam" is one of the true highlights of Intriguer. It has a classic Crowded House melody as its foundation, but takes a lot of twists and turns and has a level of intensity that makes it stand out. To me it sounds like all the band is very committed to making the song special and they succeed splendidly. I really like the lyrics of this song, the vivid and colourful snapshots of a weird day in Amsterdam, with lots of odd details. It is very stream-of-consciousness and the overall impression is that it's very cinematic. I've never been to Amsterdam (but would like to go there one day) but when I hear the song I feel like I'm there with the narrator, seeing and experiencing what he is seeing and experiencing. There's a sense of humour too in the lines "A million people on a protest march / Every choice, every path was mistaken". The narrator here isn't really expressing support or empathy with those million people on a protest march, he is more annoyed that they are getting in the way while he is on his way back to his expensive hotel after having tried to visit one of the tourist attractions. There is a clash here between the tourist who can afford to stay at the Grand Hotel and wants to go to the Van Gogh museum in his spare time and those protesters who are devoting time for a cause that is giving them serious concern (and possibly they are expressing their opinions in Dutch which I guess the narrator as a tourist doesn't understand either).
    This track, in my opinion, ranks among Crowded House's very best songs.
    5/5
     
  6. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    THIS ONE AM GOOD BUT NOT BEST BUT STILL OK FOR THE LISTENING OF MUSIC BUT WORDS NOT WORK BUT MUSIC STILL OK.

    There. The bar has now been sufficiently lowered such that no one should be self conscious about posting their thoughts. Have at it, world!
     
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  7. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I love the track, though I wonder how much of it has to do with my strong sense of connection to Amsterdam (I lived there for a year and made several personal and professional visits for several years thereafter). Of course, this is not a positive view of Amsterdam, but it nonetheless presents a kind of dark mirror image of the uncanny aspects of the city that cause so many people to fall in love with it. Mainly what works musically is the passion that Neil brings to the vocals, creating an urgent sense of narrative build and climax: 5/5
     
  8. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    Fantastic analysis--this puts into words so much of what I enjoy about this track, but couldn't quite describe!
     
  9. therunner

    therunner Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    How I feel about "Amsterdam" seems to change for me on every listen; sometimes I revel in all the classic CH elements that others have mentioned above, but other times I focus too much on the minor irritations in it and become unable to enjoy the rest of the song. The melodies, especially in the chorus, are wonderful; but there are so many clunky lyrics and rhymes that make me cringe, for example off/Van Gogh which comes so early in the song and sometimes can set a negative tone and I find myself waiting for the other clunkers rather than enjoying the music. So I'll score it as an average...

    4/5
     
  10. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Amsterdam sounds like an alternate take to what is a really good song ... and it would be more interesting if we could compare this take to that other non-existent version. The one we have is shambling in places, and drags in others. The drumming here is too similar to Matt's other drumming. He's quite good in concert, maybe Jim Scott didn't know how to get the best out of Matt, and Matt started relying on his stock patterns. Mark and Nick do their usual good work, but neither makes the leap to stirring. The melodies are very good (the lyrics not so much), Neil's vocal sounds good, but his phrasing alternates between great and uninspired. The guitar solo shows the influence of Liam and it doesn't serve the song well. The best part of the song for me is the last 40 seconds, if they could have done another take with that "feel", it would be a much better song.

    3.5/5
     
  11. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    Many thanks @jimbutsu - your sacrifice is duly noted...
     
  12. Michael Rofkar

    Michael Rofkar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Tram-dodging becomes by necessity the mode of self-preservation when in Amsterdam. The last time I was there, a group of people came bursting out of a tram, knocking my wife off her rental bike.

    This is quite a dark song, capturing well the disorientation one can feel in a big, busy, foreign city. The line "Who would take profit from the vice of another man?" is obviously a reference to drugs, which are plentiful in Amsterdam. I think it's brilliant. I also love the visual of the "big sarcastic kiss".

    It's one of the best songs on the album, and the guitars suit the feel of it perfectly. 4.5/5
     
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  13. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    I don't think the readily available vices in Amsterdam are limited to drugs. Just sayin'.
     
  14. iarla

    iarla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Amsterdam

    It's a good song - one of the best on the album in my opinion.

    Watching the video of the 2007-2016 lineup of the band performing it "Upstairs at Home" does make me appreciate that line-up.

    Didn't Neil Finn say in an interview somewhere that the source of the inspiration for that song was indeed a day in Amsterdam with Johnny Marr where they ended up getting a lot more baked than planned because of some prodigiously strong weed, they walked around in a daze and ended up listening to Bob Marley in a hotel room to soothe themselves?
     
  15. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Amsterdam"

    1-0
    2-1
    3-0
    4-7
    5-10
    Average: 4.3056
     
  16. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    That's exactly what it sounds like to me, well other than the Bob Marley bit.
     
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  17. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "Either Side of the World", written by Neil Finn and produced by Neil Finn and Jim Scott.

    Lyric.

    If the video above doesn't work you can see the video on Neil Finn's page here and listen to the song here.

    Neil Finn: Lead and backing vocals, 12-string electric guitar, synthesizer
    Mark Hart: Piano, backing vocals
    Nick Seymour: bass
    Matt Sharrod: drums

    Don McGlashan: tambourine

    Live versions of this were released:
    • As a digital promo on iTunes (recorded in Oslo)
    • On the Upstairs At Home bonus DVD
    • Intriguer Start fo Finish DVD/CD -- Auckland/Denver
    • North American Travelogue (recorded in Vienna, Virginia)
    Another live version, recorded in 2008, was released on Intriguer Deluxe in 2016, but it is a an earlier, different version song -- I am going to hold that version up separately in a week or two
     
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  18. drewrclv9

    drewrclv9 Forum Resident

    This sounds very much like an updated version of "Paradise (Wherever You Are)." I like it in that sense; it's got the same vibe in a lot of ways. This isn't quite as interesting to me as that song is, though. It's pleasant to listen to, but never thoroughly impresses or amazes me like yesterday's song does. That middle 8 is very nice, though. The piano also adds a great deal of depth throughout the song.

    I don't really care for the "floating in space" breakdown around the 3 minute mark. In addition to it going on too long, it just seems unnecessary altogether. It breaks up the flow of the song. The track either should have ended during that part, or the section should have been trimmed to a more reasonable length. It goes on for nearly an entire minute before the song really kicks back in.

    Other than that, I generally do enjoy this song for what it is: A pleasant, carefree little number where Neil sounds very comfortable vocally.

    3.7/5
     
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  19. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    "Either Side of the World": A lovely, almost unassuming track that took me a while to appreciate. I think I started enjoying it more after hearing it performed live in Montreal (my first and so far only experience of seeing CH or Neil live). This was also the first concert I attended with my partner of nearly 12 years now, and I remember him looking at me very sweetly during this song (possibly mishearing "When you're in luck" as "When you're in love"). I've noticed in general that in live versions, Neil sings the part about passion and commitment with more...well...passion and commitment than in the studio version, but I still think that part (I guess it's the chorus--or is it the middle 8?) is what pulls the verging-on-meandering track together in an ultimately satisfying way: 4.6/10.
     
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  20. Left Hand

    Left Hand Forum Resident

    Everything from above, including the score
     
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  21. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    This song seems to touch on a lot of familiar Finn motifs: as is often the case with Neil's songs, you take it all as a holistic hole and let the music fill in the gaps of meaning that are in the lyric: but the ideas of success and the resultant rush of ego turning into a cushy form of hell where you are cut off from humanity and the fact that love (passion and committment) being the thing that grounds one in such an unreal situation. Someone mentioned "Hotel California" above, and I got that from "Amsterdam"(one you pointed it out!) and I also get it rom here too: however, I don't think that Neil ever enters into the hell he might be trying to talk about, mainly because he knows enough not to buy into that business.

    The Upstairs At Home version is pretty cool with all four singing a bit. While the "spacey" break in the middle is very odd for what appeared to be whatever the 2010 equivalent of a single is, I don't mind it: it does break it up, but I like that kind of thing. Not very radio friendly, though, but at this point radio stations are going to play Neil or not play him no matter what.

    This is a great song, it's sweet and catcy but not too sweet.

    5/5
     
  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Tee hee.
     
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  23. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    Either Side of the World

    Apologies, but I can’t talk about this song without talking about the earlier version, because that version totally affects my opinion of this version.

    This is one of the two songs on Intriguer that made me swear off listening to early versions of songs by any artist.

    When I first heard the early live version of this song, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. It was one of the most wonderful Neil Finn songs I have ever heard. There was a gorgeous, lilting, relaxed, South Pacific feel in the melody, made even stronger by Mark Hart’s prominent lap steel. I adored it, and excitedly awaited hearing a polished studio version.

    And then they released Intriguer. WTF???? The gorgeous lap steel was gone, replaced by piano, which gave the song an entirely different feel. :cry: Equally as awful, possibly even worse, was the the drumming. They had taken a laid back, relaxing song, and but some kind of stupidly fast drum beat over it that actually induces an anxiety attack in me if I pay too much attention to it. It is no longer relaxing, that’s for sure. I have to try and force myself not to pay attention to the drums because I can’t stand that beat. How many beats per minute is it? It’s gotta be some stupidly high number.

    The beautiful song is still there, so I’m still going to rate this pretty highly, but wow, they took what could have been one of my favorite Neil Finn songs of all time and just killed it. WHY???? *sob*

    Early version: 5+/5

    Intriguer version: 4/5 (begrudgingly, but it is a wonderful song)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  24. ToneM

    ToneM Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    Either Side of the World is a prime example of my feelings on Intriguer, in that it delights and frustrates in equal measure. The original effortless live take has been over-thought and over-rendered to the point where it loses all cohesiveness. As has been pointed out, the epically long intro and instrumental don't exactly help, as they stall the song and lose any sense of momentum.

    That said, at its best there are moments of rare beauty, during the light as air verse and stunning chorus. Although speaking of air, thanks to @iarla I keep hearing Love Is In The Air overlaid on it now. By this point in the album I've come to terms with nonsense lyrics enough to just appreciate the vibe I assume Neil was aiming for. It may be trite, but there's still something emotionally resonant about

    "When you’re in love
    The world moves with you"

    A beautiful, fragile song, that like so many on this record, would've been better served by more sympathetic, less cluttered production.

    4/5
     
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  25. UrAWizHar

    UrAWizHar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland
    Either Side of the World....

    Gah, there is no other way to say this, I think this is awful. I dislike everything about this song from the melody, the instrumentation and particularly as already pointed out the panic-inducing drum beat which is so completely out of place. Worst of all is the false ending which at least promises that this is a relatively short piece of rubbish but no, still another minute to go!

    Absolutely an insta-skip every time for me, and marks the turning point from what had the potential to be a great album into, well, a disappointment.

    1/5
     

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