Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

I didn't notice the similarities with Private Universe until I read them here but listening again I can hear them clearly, although I think they're somewhat superficial similarities i.e. the toms are reminiscent of the tribal percussion on PU, they both have a kinda jam outro, spacious reverby arrangement etc. and the comparison does Goodnight Everyone a bit of disservice as both songs are quite different. I'm not a fan of Private Universe so I think Goodnight Everyone is way better. I can't quite nail down what it reminds me of, the lyrics, the harmonies, that swooping synth "Your flaming arrow in the dawn" make me think of epic old time cinematic adventure stories. It's only verse, chorus, verse, chorus, outro, there's no big punchline (like on a lot of these songs) but it works for me. They've always been a good band for outros.

 

“Goodnight Everyone” reminds me of the verses’ melody in David Dondero’s “Capital Buildings Bleed”.

 

I'm with @KangaMom on "Goodnight Everyone" being great when it's playing but strangely unmemorable afterwards, which I guess is down to Liam's dubious 'talent' for understated (sometimes non-existent) hooks.

But I do love the Private Universe style feel to it, and also Liam's vocals, making me wonder why he doesn't sing like this more on his solo songs.

One of the best songs on the album.

4/5

 

“Goodnight Everyone” is a nice track. I agree with the comparison to “Private Universe”, and also the comparison to “Either Side of the World” brought up by @Michael Rofkar. It is maybe a little cluttered in the chorus vocally, but it’s still a lovely, Latin tinged track with great guitar and vocals from Liam.

4/5

 

Best song on the album. Love it. 5/5

 

I don't think it's just the percussion that gives it the comparison to "Private Universe", there's a spaciousness (but not sparseness) to the music and almost dreamlike quality to it that reminds me of PU.

Agree that if Liam sang like this on all his solo stuff, I'd listen to a lot more of it...

 

Yeah, imagine having to tell a songwriter that actually you think this verse should be moved or that guitar part should be toned down (or out). As emotionally attached as some of us are to these songs, it can't possibly be in the ballpark of the investment that a writer has for their own song.

I know frequently the lyrics and inspirations are obscure and not a direct line to the writer's thoughts and dreams, but still the investment in developing that idea must be immense. I guess to be a good producer you have to be a diplomat...and I guess have a healthy ego about your own skillset.
Like @DiBosco I'd love to be a fly-on-the-wall to see that process.

 

Goodnight Everyone.

This could be on Together Alone. It's that good.

I've enjoyed not knowing if it's Neil or Liam singing as it's contributing to the ethereal atmosphere of the song.

I too find the complexities of production fascinating, and have never been sold on the 'if you can't play it on an acoustic it's not a good song'. I would have thought that argument was done with after Revolver, if not before. Really enjoying the insightful posts here.

My understanding is that U2 and Eno/Lanois fell out some point before No Line on the Horizon because of those boundaries between songwriting and production, and what really makes a song. Since Unforgettable Fire they'd all agreed that the terms 'producer' and 'artist' were pretty fluid, and they'd agree that these were nominal terms that you just had to agree on because strictly demarcating these things would be philosophically impossible (given the nature of their collaboration I mean; other acts would find it easier.) It must have been between Achtung Baby and their return to the fold that Eno was asking for songwriting credits on the album (but not any actual financial gain, just credits) and the band weren't having it. Even though their ways of working would have been essentially the same as their previous albums.

When I was younger I'd always find myself siding with an artist when in interviews they'd protest about a producer being over-attentive and micromanaging their artistic vision. But as I've got older I listen to a few albums in this category (The Church's Starfish, R.E.M.'s Lifes Rich Pageant, Go-Betweens' 16 Lovers Lane) and think, nah, the producers were right.

Where was I? Oh, yeah. Goodnight Everyone 5/5

 

Goodnight Everyone: 4.5/5. Sublime. I don’t usually listen to the remaining 5(!) songs on this album so this is a nice album closer for me. I agree this could have been on Together Alone.

 

"Goodnight Everyone": and now it's Liam's turn.

When the new lineup was announced, I had two major anxieties: first, that Liam would bring to Crowded House the weird aesthetic of The Nihilist, and, second, that Elroy would prove inadequate to the task. "Goodnight Everyone" pretty much eliminates the first concern. I should have reminded myself that Liamhad proved himself capable of writing the occasional compelling pop song, during his solo career and on Lightsleeper (even if there was also much that I didn't like), and that he'd given a pretty conventional (if still muddy) production to Out of Silence. ""Goodnight Everyone" shows that Liam understands that he's now in Crowded House, and what that means. I'm sure there was a bit of frustration in writing to his dad's standards, but he still did it effectively, and he brought an effective (and Neil-like) vocal to the song as well.

As for Elroy, I retain my reservations. Others have noted tis song's vague resemblance to "Private Universe," but elroy's playing here lacks the power and urgency that Paul brought to that song, and to the rest of Together Alone. I'll reserve final judgment until I hear Elroy live, but at this point he seems competent at best can't hold a candle to Paul or to Matt Sherrod at their best (except that his harmonies are probably better than Matt's).

4/5

The mention of "Private Universe" led me to put on Together Alone. What a brilliant album. And it's probably unfair to hold 62-year-old Neil to the standards of his 35-year-old self. But, fair or not, he and the band fall short.

 

I am fascinated in general with the way that different musicians influence the song that's being worked on. How two flavors come together and make a new one. If this album sounds in places like Lightsleeper, well, that's because it's still Neil and Liam making that interesting flavor that they make together.

I very much have seen this entire thread, for both Finn Brothers, as a journey through different collaborators -- each of them bringing a particular flavor to the proceedings to Neil's and Tim's raw songs.

In your list of producers, Scott Litt and Don Gehman stand out a little bit because of their work with R.E.M.. I just want to highlight that R.E.M. was probably one of the easiest groups of all time to produce, at least during the four-legged dog period.

Their John Keane demos are pretty much the finished product. I'm not lessening Litt's and Gehman's talents because I think they still helped R.E.M. a lot, especially Gehman who got Michael out of his shell and helped Mike and Bill blossom in the studio beyond their normal instruments —but other than “Fall On Me”, which was transformed/rewritten in studio it seems that their demos are all pretty fully formed, if sometimes slightly flubby.

(incidentally Crowded House rejected a Scott Litt mix of their first album.)

Mitchell Froom though is obviously a different story . He clearly is much more hands on (or maybe Neil is much more agreeable —or maybe they just have a certain chemistry together.) I think his influence on Neil’s music was profound. Suzanne Vega’s, too.

The difference between the Mullanes demos and the debut is Night and day.

I think he almost deserves co-writing credit on more songs, insofar as songwriting can also be about organizing various small musical ideas and incorporating them into a tight arrangement that supports the raw melody and words. But he’s not alone: I think Mark Hart performed a similar role on Together Alone and Intriguer (not Time On Earth), Marius deVries did the same on Try Whistling This. I think that Froom said this year that his co-writing credit on “Something So Strong” was just an acknowledgment of his arrangement help on the whole album, and I guess that it’s the same for DeVries’ credit and maybe some of Mark’s.

But yeah with Mitchell Froom and all these great producers you definitely get someone who is on your side and working to better your song!

 

Our votes for "Goodnight Everyone"

1-0
2-1
3-3
4-7
5-6
Average: 4.0176

 

Today's song is "Too Good for This World", written by Neil Finn and Tim Finn; produced by Crowded House.

Crowded House – Too Good for This World Lyrics | Genius Lyrics

This song is another song that was left over from Neil and Tim's aborted theatrical project, written circa 2014-2015, which was inspired by the life of author Mervyn Peake.

 

I think this has a lovely melody and interesting, dramatic lyrics that I don't fully understand. The verse melody sounds like classic latter day Tim and the It seems that it could be tightened up a bit arrangement-wise. I think it's pretty and I enjoy the ukelele, the vibraphone and the vocals. The middle 8 ("these little things", bit) is very unusual and beatiful.

The song feels like it should touch me more, but, like the songs on Vermillion Sands, the meaning of the lyrics are too obscure to truly do that.

4.6/5

 

Too Good for This World

Sigh. This song seems so insubstantial to me that I struggle to find anything at all to say about it. The verses don’t engage me at all, The chorus is better. The “These little things are sent to try us”part is also better, marginally. There’s nothing really wrong with the song, it’s just kind of there. It’s inoffensively pleasant. It saddens me deeply that this is what the songwriters of Four Seasons in One Day, Catherine Wheels, Weather With You, Won’t Give In, Part of Me Part of You, etc are coming up with and releasing these days. They always created magic together. Not any more, it seems. At least not for me.

3/5

 

Too Good For This World

This is a nice song, and to my ears very 'CH'. If I try and think which previous CH album this may fit on, I think Woodface. And, hopefully, not just because it's a Tim co-write. The arrangement too. It's fairly normal CH. Perhaps the arrangement could be a bit simple. I wonder if all members had to add their bits instrumentally when maybe the song would work at least just as well with a Neil vocal, acoustic guitar, bass, and drums.

To my mind, the story sounds a bit like an adaptation of the Icarus story with additional details. But, this may be my general ignorance of the full details of the Icarus story and whatever Mervyn Peake story this refers to. But, the lyrics work for me as an ambiguous and interesting story.

I don't really hear this as a Tim style melody. It sounds quite Neil to me.

It's a good song, and

3.8/5

 

Initially I found the run of four songs starting with Show Me The Way a bit of a drag. The first 5 are so much more varied in terms of tempo and styles that these four felt a bit like coming of the rails. When I got the vinyl it changed a bit, at least there's a break while you turn it over and Show Me The Way works really well as part of varied side 1 and a closer for that side. Then you have a fresh start and the three slow folksy/country-ish ones are not so jarring. Still, they're a bit of a blur to me back to back but I like them at least more than I did. Too Good for This World has a nice chorus and the "these little things" bit is lovely. It's not a favorite but it's not bad, I wouldn't skip it.

 

Too Good For This World: 1.5/5
Does Tim sing backup on this? Those little “hey”s sound so much like him. The verses are obvs Neil but the melody is pure Tim. These hooks don’t work for me.

 

He is not credited. I also wondered about the ukelele being Tim but then I think any of them could play ukelele.

 

Too Good For This World

Considering Neil's previous comments of being wary on attempting reggae, this shuffler certainly sounds reggae-lite. The odd lyrics come across a bit tongue in cheek and wryly humourous to me, but no doubt they'd work better in context with the rest of their Mervyn Peake project.

Not for the first time on the album, the tune is so deceptively simple it feels like I've already heard it before. And indeed, perhaps I have somewhere. But regardless, I quite admire it for its unfussy, unhurried (some would say plodding) nature. It tells a sweet harmonius story, then gets off the stage. It's hardly classic Finn Brothers, but very enjoyable all the same.

3.25/5

 

Too Good For This World - This song has echoes of earlier Crowded House - possibly Woodface era - maybe it's because it's so "acoustic" with those interludes of weaving harmonies. I think this is one of the best songs on the album, I just like the laidback ambience of the song and the chorus does have a decent hook. I must say that the middle 8/break seems to be vintage Neil.

Lyrics, well as usual I don't really understand them but I like the sound of them. I thought it may have been a meditation on grief. Could be way off base, I have been before!

I like the shuffle-y tempo to this song (it does seem to be a favorite style for me), although I don't necessarily hear it as reggae-lite. I guess it has that NZ'ish/Pacific style feel with the strumming and the ukulele. There's quite a few songs (I think) in their back catalog that seem to have a similar feel to me, although not exactly the same style.

4.2/5

 

Yeah I also didn’t hear reggae, just “shuffling NZ/S.Pacific”.

 

I guess I didn't mention it, but it also (in common with the previous song) has a kind of spaciousness. For that reason I find it very easy to listen to. Although I appreciate dense, layered music, sometimes you just need a song that breathes a little. To me, "Too Good For This World" has this wonderful feeling of breathing fresh air.

 

These little things I think is just gorgeous, especially when he sings those lyrics themselves. The start of the song I find relative ordinary, but when he gets into the "I must be too good for this world" it's just beautiful. Got to agree with Lance, it's a shuffly kind of vibe. Love this song, the melody once the song gets going is as good as it gets for me.

I do understand exactly the emotion you're experiencing here. Over on the other thread we both frequent, this is what will be happening with Berry, Buck, Mills & Stipe in the upcoming days, and when we have talked about thise IRS years and got so much magic (I like this word as an adjective for it) from the music, it saddens me that there are lots of songs that other people, I know, are going to gush over leave me cold and I wish I liked them as much.

Taste. What can you do?

I wonder if any of CH ever read this thread what they'd make of us music geeks picking over the bones of these songs, and whether the joy of people saying how much they love the songs is negated by others who don't like it!

 

"Too Good For This World" is one of my absolute favourites on Dreamers Are Waiting. I like the dreamy and slightly off-kilter shuffle feel of the music and all the details in the backing track - ukulele, the drumming and the little weird sounds that appear here and there. I suspect that if one has read the work(s) of Mervyn Peake that inspired Neil and Tim the song will get even better. I seem to recall that when we discussed "Alone" on Out of Silence it was mentioned that that song draws a lot from the novel Mr Pye and maybe this one does too. I've only read the Titus Gormenghast trilogy and that was a bit of a grind, so I haven't rushed to the library to see if they have other Mervyn Peake books.
The lyrics of this song moves me deeply, but it's a case of my soul responding to it in a way that my brain don't truly understand. Reading the lyrics, like @HitAndRun it makes me think of the Icarus myth, but one interpretation more connected to real life might be that the narrator is a person who is terminally ill and struggling to deal with that, in particular the thought that he may never see his beloved Sailor again. Maybe this terminally ill person is pondering if heaven exists and if he has been good enough in his life to make it there, if so then the line "my feathers are flowing and my wings unfurled" could be a metaphor for dying and the image of angels with wings. "I must believe that I can reach the sky" to me sounds like a person who is fearing dying and the only way to deal with that is to try and convince himself that perhaps, after all, he has been a good person in this life, that there is at least some hope and that there is thus hope that he may one day meet Sailor there when she gets there (he is probably convinced that she has been good enough). The line "I must be too good for this world" jumps out a bit, sounding rather self-righteous, but I don't think that is the narrator's intention. Maybe he has been told by others through his life "you're too good for this world" but not feeling that himself, and possibly feels that ultimately it didn't matter, he will now die and be parted from Sailor anyway.
I really like the lines "My Sailor, my island, my dream / There will always be blue skies above her / She was just the right size for me", which connects this song with "To The Island". In that song, I sensed that the island represented a kind of sanctuary, an escape from all bad world events, and it sounds like it's the same kind of island here, a safe place for him and Sailor, a place for heavenly love and blue skies and sharing dreams. I'm also getting images of the Shire in Lord of the Rings, a happy innocent place seemingly far away from wars and all kinds of evil, yet a place that run the risk that those things will eventually reach them too. Maybe the narrator of this song is a Frodo-like person, who has to "reach the sky" in order to keep Sailor and his island and his dreams safe.
I give up, I can't make an analysis of why this song connects so deeply within me, but it's a song I love from start to finish and every time I hear it I have to hear it several times in a row before I can move on to the next song.
5/5