Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I realize that participation on these may be limited: I don't own them and have never seen them. I'm off this week, thanks to the combined efforts of Santa, Baby Jesus, Deda Mraz, Weinachtsmann, etc. so I'm looking forward to catching them and discussing them here with those few who own them or have the time to watch them this week.

    My next entry will be Restless Night by Octopus, which I will hold up for discussion next year, at the weekend, probably on Saturday.
     
  2. HitAndRun

    HitAndRun Forum Resident

    I'm not sure what my participation in this thread will be ongoing. I'm watching True Colours Live now, and it's a great concert and video documenting SE at that time, when teenage me was very much a fan. It's certainly nostalgic, but the quality of the performances are very good. Everyone in the band gives it their all including a much more present (than on the album) Noel. Tim is the visual focus and he has learned his stagecraft well by this time. and, while there are quieter moments, the band really exudes energy in this performance.

    Great set of songs. Not sure about Outer Mongolia. I've not really warmed up to it. But by this time Finn era SE had built up a good catalogue of songs and it was only going to get better.

    Sadly I have to admit that I never saw SE on the True Colours era. I saw tours where Frenzy was current and also Waiata and also other performances, but not TC. Hence, it's very interesting to see this.
     
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  3. HitAndRun

    HitAndRun Forum Resident

    I can't find Live In London 1977 and WEllington 1979 on YouTube. The video posted a few posts ago is a playlist, but it seems to differ from the description.
     
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  4. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    True Colours Live: Being done in January before True Colours was even released and before it had become a great smashing hit, it seems clear that the audience is not too into the new, unfamiliar numbers, and a few times Tim seems to reference the fact that they are a bit unenthusiastic, and makes notes of the disappointing lack of alcohol at the club. The show is so energetic and the band is so committed, that I feel that the audience is really into it by the end of it. I'm amazed at how much jumping and whirling around Tim does, he must have had the strength of a mid-distance runner in those days.

    I very much appreciate the fact that Noel's percussion is so highly audible in this, and the Finn harmonies are definitely more upfront than they are on True Colours (original mix) and the performance is really amazingly tight and on.

    The bass is amazingly huge and booming, and Nigel Griggs barely breaks a sweat during the whole concert.


    "Charlie" -- it's really well done, I love the synth solo bit, there's something really arty and cool about the way the band gels in that part. Of course, Tim's voice sounds spectacular, though you can hear him straining as the show goes on.

    "Give It A Whirl" is another highlight, the really heavy guitars and booming drums and tympani really standing out in the context of the lean keyboard-led New Wave of the rest of songs. It's got a fantastic middle section that's not on the album version, too.

    "Nobody Takes Me SEriously" is quite cool, too: they really manage to bring something to it live that the studio version lacks, somehow, even though the arrangmeent is more or less the same (albeit with more prominent Noel.)

    I like what they bring to "My Mistake", you can tell that that's developed a bit from the studio version. It's also nice to see "Mind Over Matter", kind of a song easily forgotten in the ocean of classics that that band has done. The drumming is out of control on that one



    There's something about the presentation of Split Enz and the way they, especially Tim and Neil, sort of interact with the audience that doesn't quite work for me. Neil's sort of herky-jerky nervousness of and Tim's kind of Elvis Presley-as-ironic-dork schtick contrasts sharply with the easy-going humorous banter of Crowded House and Neil and Tim's late-period solo performances. It's like Tim's magnetic energy is something he's ashamed of or something. Some sort of self-deprecating thing, I guess; but it is unique and that's good.

    It all seems to distance the band from the audience intentionally in a way that I don't like. I mean, I get that that was part of their arty presentation but.... The nervousness of the band (well, just the Finns, really) at this point almost seems to define their stage presence, especially on camera: live, in their presence, it was probably a different story.

    I notice in the 2006 video (One Out Of The Bag) these ticky affectations seem to have been left behind; perhaps back in 1980, they were still nervous and eager to prove something.

    By the end of the show I'm totally sold on the band. This is a really tight, great performance by an almost embarrasingly talented band who really know what they are doing and they really give it a fully committed taut performance.

    5/5
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2021
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  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well that's a shame. I'll have a look tomorrow at it.
     
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  6. HitAndRun

    HitAndRun Forum Resident

    It is plausible that I am just confused.
     
  7. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well it’s plausible that you are right. I didn’t have a look. If that’s the case I won’t lose any sleep though.
     
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  8. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallentuna, Sweden
    True Colours Live

    If I remember correctly, this was the very first Split Enz live visual that I saw. I had read about this mythical VHS (one of the very first, if not the first, music VHS to be released in Australia - apparently it was very very expensive when it was new and not many people had VHS players in 1980 either; I believe the VHS is preserved in a time capsule in Australia for that reason) and asked fan club president Peter Green about soon after I joined the fan club in mid-1990. I was lucky - the fan club did have some copies available (a re-issue or something like that as it had "Outer Mongolia" on it which was not on the original VHS).

    Before this week, I hadn't seen this concert for ages. It's fascinating to watch Split Enz just before True Colours was released, just before they went from a semi-big (in Australia) band to becoming a hugely successful group, topping both the Australian albums and singles charts for weeks. It was surprising that they chose to start with "Double Happy", an instrumental, but they really build up a lot of intensity and energy through the concert. You can really tell how much they enjoyed playing the True Colours songs and how much confidence they had in their then-yet-to-be-released new material. And they don't go further back than Dizrythmia. I think the version of "Charley" is one of the best live versions of that song that I've heard.
    Tim's stage persona in 1980 seems a long way away from his more relaxed stage persona of recent years, but he was (is) certainly a very charismatic person on stage. He is very much the focal point of this concert, with Neil more of a sidekick at this point, except for when he got to sing lead vocals. The band was also stunningly tight at this concert, they really come across a true unit with all members pulling in the same direction.

    I'm glad that this moment in time - just before they were about to achieve huge success in Australia - was captured on this VHS and that thanks to the wonders of YouTube it was possible to watch it again (I no longer have a VHS player). A great concert!
    4,9/5
     
  9. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    I agree with what you wrote above.

    This was fun to watch, but didn’t quite work for me overall. And it’s always somewhat uncomfortable for me to watch Tim sweat like that. I always want to bring him several glasses of water. Liam sweats like that too.

    Anyway, I think my favorite song from this performance is I Hope I Never. Even though it has an odd, vaguely loungey, Latin (?) beat here, Tim’s voice is amazing.
     
  10. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    If you ever want to be truly alarmed by the volume of sweat a person gets up to on stage, check out a Frank Turner show once he's an hour plus in... I wasn't even repulsed or uncomfortable - I was genuinely awed that such a thing was physically possible!
     
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  11. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Yeah, he looks pretty slick -- literally!

    His make up must have been water proof. You'd expect him to look like Alice Cooper after that work out. His karate moves, ten yard dashes and pushups, not to mention the rather uncomfortable looking outfits Noel put them all in probably contributed to the sweating. They should have invested in a gigantic fan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
  12. iarla

    iarla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    If this hasn't been mentioned already, it looks like the Finn Brothers album release on vinyl may also include a vinyl release of the Murchison Street Demos as bonus material, which would be a delight :)
     
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  13. dthomas850

    dthomas850 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    2016 vinyl has lyrics inside of the cover (maybe was supposed to be a gatefold?), I don't really want to cut it open to see them!
     
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  14. dthomas850

    dthomas850 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    I was just thinking about this the other day, any word on a release date?
     
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  15. Jaffaman

    Jaffaman Senior Member

    No need. @Paul H has kindly sent me the lyrics already.
     
  16. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    Ahh, the glories of man-made fibers! Never creases, never breathes...but you look fabulous!
     
  17. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    There is something about a band playing on a small stage that brings them together musically, and True Colours Live is no exception. It's impressive to watch them working so hard and being so into the music.

    There are a few things that jump out at me. They are very well rehearsed and tight for the bulk of the show. Tim's stage presence is impressive. Despite being able to "mach schau", Neil still seems to be uncomfortable on stage, although that was probably just an act. Eddie's keyboards really dominate, without being domineering. He supports the songs, and doesn't overstep. Nigel and Noel give a solid bed to the music, but I was surprised that it took a couple of songs for them to lock in together. Once they found their groove, they were unstoppable. The big surprise for me was how enjoyable it is to watch Noel. In a way he seems to be the soul of the band, his percussion splashes give it an extra sprinkling of fairy dust.

    I regret not buying the DVD when the club offered it, but you can't have everything. It's great that the show is up on YouTube in very good quality and very nice that it hasn't been pulled down. It unfortunate that a band where the visuals were so important doesn't have more readily available on DVD.

    Finally, the remarks of others here once again have enhanced my appreciation for the music, thank you to those who've commented. They were a truly great live band, and I'm jealous of those of you who were lucky enough to see them in person.

    True Colours Live: 5/5
     
  18. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Restless Night by Octopus, which featured both Nigel Griggs (vocals, bass, chief songwriter) and Malcolm Green (drums.) Octopus is an interesting band. A very minor band in the grand scheme of things but many of the members went on to more famous bands: Of course, Nigel and Malcolm joined Split Enz in 1978, but other members went on to join Mungo Jerry and The Motels.

    Here's a Spotify link to all 22 songs they recorded: their debut and only album Restless Night, as well as some non-LP singles and outtakes:

    Restless Night: The Complete Pop-Psych Sessions 1967-1971

    I'll try to link to some youTube clips, as well in a subsequent post.

    (the following essay is cut and pasted from All Music. Since I don't know much about the band, I really can't do it any better than they did.)

    "Octopus' origins lay in Hatfield, 30 miles from London, and a mid-'60s quartet called the Cortinas (the name came from an English Ford compact car), made up of Paul Griggs (guitar), Nigel Griggs (bass), Brian Glassock (drums), and Rick Williams (guitar).

    By 1967, the Cortinas had moved from Brit beat into pop-psychedelia and cut one single ("Phoebe's Flower Shop") for Polydor without success. The following year, the quartet renamed and redirected itself and Octopus was born. The band earned a support spot to Yes which was, itself, an up-and-coming group at the time. They also appeared on stage with acts like Status Quo and Humble Pie, and were discovered by Troggs bassist Tony Murray, who helped get them a record deal with independent producer Larry Page, who was the Troggs' manager.

    Octopus was signed to Penny Farthing and released a single, "Laugh at the Poor Man" b/w "Girl Friend," in 1969. Midway through the recording of their debut album, Restless Night, Glassock and Williams quit the band, and it was a re-formed Octopus, with John Cook on keyboards and Malcolm Green on the drums, that finished the record with Murray producing. The resulting LP was popular in Hatfield but never found an audience anywhere else.

    Restless Night was a surprisingly pop-oriented affair considering Murray's regular gig. The music is on the smooth, commercial pop side, with the psychedelic elements mostly in the fuzztone guitar and organ flourishes, mixed with the music's general melodic nature. The band was good enough to get booked into the Marquee Club in London in 1969, but their career arc was far more shallow than that of heavier weight contemporaries such as King Crimson. The group pressed on for another two years, including tours of Europe, but disbanded in 1972. John Cook later joined Mungo Jerry, while Malcolm Green and Nigel Griggs later became members of Split Enz.


    See for Miles reissued Restless Night with extra tracks off of their singles in the 1990s. This group has nothing to do with the band named Octopus that recorded for ESP at the end of the 1960s, or the more recent band of the same name."

    Paul Griggs joined Kincade and later formed the band Guys And Dolls.


    Discographies:

    The Cortinas:

    • Phoebe's Flower Shop/Too Much In Love (1968)
    Octopus:
    • Laugh at the Poor Man (Jackie Steward, Nigel Griggs, Paul Griggs) b/w Girlfriend (N. Griggs, Rick Williams)
    • Restless Night album (April 1971)
    • The River (N. Griggs) b/w The Thief (N. Griggs)
    • Summer (N. Griggs b/w John's Rock (John Cooke)

    In April 1971, Octopus's debut and only album was released: Restless Night.

    The Tracklist of the original album was
    1. The River (Nigel Griggs)
    2. Summer (N. Griggs)
    3. Council Plans (John Cook)
    4. Restless Night (N. Griggs)
    5. Thief (N. Griggs)
    6. Queen and the Pauper (N. Griggs)
    7. I Say (N. Griggs)
    8. John's Rock (J. Cook)
    9. RAinchild (N. Griggs)
    10. Tide (N. Griggs)

    The latest expanded version's discogs link, with full track list, is here:
    Octopus – Restless Night - The Complete Pop-Psych Sessions 1967-71 (2006, CD)
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2022
  19. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    A playlist to the original album (without the 12 extras currently avalable on streaming platforms) is on Youtube: it starts here:




    Next weekend, I'll hold up two Frenz of the Enz fan club releases:

    • Live In Melbourne--Tim Finn (recorded in 1983)
    • Live At CBGB's -- Crowded House (recorded in 1986)
     
  20. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    True Colours Live

    5-3
    Average: 4.9667

    Live In London 1977 and WEllington 1979 n/r



     
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  21. BeSteVenn

    BeSteVenn FOMO Resident

    Rats, the week got away from me once again (work, work, work) and I didn't have time to watch the second set of concert clips. I've had a chance to watch several songs this morning, and I encourage anyone mildly interested to seek them out on YouTube.The quality isn't great, but the band's energy is.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvl-YrRq874
    Happy New Year to everyone still on this journey!!
     
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  22. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    I don't even have the excuse of work. More like apathy, apathy, apathy. I have lots of Split Enz bootlegs from these eras so wasn't super keen to check out those links.
     
  23. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    As for Restless Night (original 10-track album):

    It's really very surprisingly good. I'm not sure why I should be surprised: maybe because, despite Nigel's sturdy presence in Split Enz for the last seven years of their career, and his occasional song-writing co-credit, he seems to have done relatively little; yet here he is not only playing stellar bass but also writing the bulk of the songs and singing lead. And he sounds good!

    Pop-psychedelic is probably a good way to categorize this stuff. To me it sounds almost like Emitt Rhodes fronting a late sixties psychedelic rock band. Really: songwriting-wise and vocal-wise, Nigel sounds very much like Emitt Rhodes. The band however rocks a bit differently than Emitt's stuff does:: there's a rootsy blues-rock undercurrent in the rhythm section (and boy, some of the songs really obviously have that Green/Griggs Dizrhthmia sound!) and the organist on these songs is top notch. I suppose that live the organ solos went on a bit longer, here they are admirably restrained; there's a bit of classical proto-prog going on with the organ but it never seems too egg-headed or annoyingly sprawling like some of this stuff can get.

    Out of these ten songs, there's no five star masterpiece in my opinion (Opener "The River" is probably my favorite) but the overall album is remarkably consistent, well-written and well-played.

    The weak point is probably "John's Rock" which is not only written by I suppose also sung by keyboardist John Cook. It's a bit of a pedestrian blues chugger, and Cook's vocals are screamed rather than sung -- still it's not so bad that it ruins the album or anything, it's enjoyable enough in context.

    It's interesting to note that Nigel's bass-playing style on this album as well as Dizrhythmia changed quite a bit when the New Wave took over. It's a lot more conventional and sixties here, while from Frenzy on, his style became much more New Wave adjacent and unique; angular and subtle.

    Anyway, this album is more than just good, but perhaps with no obvious masterpiece (though the opening track "The River"is very very good) I guess it falls a shade below great to me. I can understand why Nigel didn't contribute much to Split Enz -- that was a Finn-dominated affair -- but it does seem curious that he's done so little since Split Enz broke up. Besides being an excellent bassist he's really a very good songwriter and singer, too. I have to say that this is better than a few Neil and Tim solo projects for me, even if it doesn't approach their peaks.

    What is the story with that? Is he independently wealthy? How has he made a living these last thirty five years? I always wonder about that.

    3.6/5

    If I have time, I'll weigh in on the other 12 Octopus songs on the current collection. I don't feel familiar enough to talk about them yet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2022
  24. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    OK, I hadn't realized I got my timing wrong....I was planning to watch the Enz concert today....but won't score it.
     
  25. jimbutsu

    jimbutsu WATCH YÖUR STEPPE

    I don't really have a perspective on Octopus having only been exposed to them today. They seem to be by the numbers psychedelic British music of the era, but very solidly done. Very listenable, but I can't really score it. Fun little artifact though!
     

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