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Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    I'm curious Stefan which version you would recommend? I'm thinking about buying a copy and although I've not heard the extra tracks I'm interested enough to take a chance on those extras.

    Maybe I'm just a sucker for B-grade Sci-Fi novel/pulp fiction covers. I personally love that type of thing. Incredibly politically incorrect now, but somehow so very stylish. You can't take them seriously at all...

    Also thanks Stefan for your knowledge about music copyright. That was super-informative!
  2. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Vallentuna, Sweden
    I would definitely recommend Octopus – Restless Night - The Complete Pop-Psych Sessions 1967-71 (2006, CD) - Discogs. Looking at Discogs, the prices are similar and quite normal for both this and previous issues of the CD (there was also a 1996 14-track edition released in Germany and Japan) and obviously you will get a lot more tracks on this edition. In addition, the liner notes are better and includes photos of the band as well, the cover artwork is of better quality and overall Rev Ola (the UK label) has put more care and attention into their edition.
  3. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for Restless Night by Octopus.

    Average: 3.8667
  4. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    This week two fan club albums, released by Frenz Of The Enz fan club.

    The first is Live Bootleg Melbourne 1983, by Tim Finn.

    This was a concert during the Escapade tour, released not long after Conflicting Emotions was released. So Tim was quite busy for a while.

    Live Bootleg Melbourne 1983 was reocrded at The Venue in Melbourne.According to setlist.fm, this is the only gig done by Tim in 1983. It was broadcast on radio and a fan recorded it on a cassette. This album is sourced from that fan-made cassette and was released on cassette only in 2018. It may have been the final release by the Frenz of the Enz fan club before it finished.

    From the liner notes:

    "Originally recorded to a Scotch CX 90 cassette by Sean Sennett in Daisy Hill, Queensland. Actual concert took place 29.10.1983 at the Venue, Melbourne. Original concert broadcast by FM 104 Brisbane, hosted by Rod Lockington, Transferred by Jason Millhouse at Record Works in March 2018 For more info visit: www.facebook.com/TimFinnOfficial"

    1. Through The Years (Tim Finn)
    2. Below The Belt (Tim Finn)
    3. Grand Adventure (Tim Finn)
    4. Growing Pains (Tim Finn)
    5. Not For Nothing (Tim Finn)
    6. Shape I'm In (Jeff Burstin, Joe Camilleri)
    7. I Only Want to Know (Tim Finn)
    8. (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay (Otis Redding, Steve Cropper)
    9. Fraction Too Much Friction (Tim Finn)
    10. Ain't That Good News (Sam Cooke)
    11. Staring at the Embers (Tim Finn)
    12. Made My Day (Tim Finn)
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  5. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    This week's second fan club album is Live At CBGB by Crowded House.

    Live At CBGB was mostly recorded at the legendary CBGB's club in New York City on November 22nd, 1986. A few songs on it, though come from the Rock Arena DVD release recorded in December 1986 at ABC Studios in Melbourne.

    I used to have a digital copy of this album, but I accidentally deleted it from my hard drive and I got it at a time with about a hundred other live shows and I'm not sure if I ever listened to it. My notes are all from @Paul H who provided me with an excellent and beautifully laid out discography of fan club albums a few years ago.

    Paul writes:
    Live At CBGB was released in September, 1999. The Tracklist:

    1. Mean To Me (Neil Finn)
    2. Something So Strong (Finn-Mitchell Froom)
    3. Don't Dream It's Over (Finn)
    4. Throw Your Arms Around Me (Mark Seymour/Hunters & Collectors)
    5. Love You Till the Day I Die (Finn)
    6. Better Be Home Soon (Finn)
    7. This Is Massive (Paul Hester)
    8. World Where You LIve (Finn)
    9. Now We're Getting Somewhere (Finn)
    10. One Step Ahead (Finn)
    11. I Got You (Finn)
    12. Breaking My Back (Finn)
    13. One Step Ahead (Finn)
    14. That's What I Call Love (Finn-Hester)
  6. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Very interesting.

    Of course songwriting credits are ultimately up to the people participating and there are no real hard fast rules; to me, in my world, a "solo" in and of itself would not count as songwriting, unless it had actually different chords in it and thus was a distinct as a bridge or a middle eight or a chorus....Like "I Got You". It's true that some bands, like R.E.M. are extremely democratic about songwriting credits, even though in fact, the music of many tracks were generally led by one of the others, or co-written by two of three. (With Michael Stipe of course nearly always providing the actual melody and words after the backing track is completed.) Other bands, like, say the Beach Boys will credit anybody who contributes even a single line of lyric to a song or any small part of an arrangement that is ends up being "obligato" (like the "She's real fine my 409) opening hook of "409", which was written by Mike Love.

    To me, I think it depends how the song is written. If a songwriter comes in with a song with lyrics and so on and the band then jams on it, and writes a solo and so on that should go with the initial songwriter, even if minor changes are made during the process...but if a band is just jamming and then the singer writes a melody and lyric based on that jam some credit should go to all of them, though maybe not all equally. (like "Suffer Never")

    But that's how it works in my head, of course, in the end it actually works however everyone involved agrees it works.
  7. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    It is Paul Hester's birthday today.

  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Live Bootleg Melbourne 1983

    This is an interesting artifact from the Escapade era Tim Finn. First of all let me get my complaint out of the way: cassette? Really?

    But overall, despite the occasional cassete artifact (bit of pitch warbling here and there, a general bass-heavy muddy-ish sound) this is a surprisingly good sounding recording, in my opinion. And it captures Tim in good....no, not good, incredible voice. Imagine seeing him live, a singer that good in his absolute prime! His backing band, a full band including backing vocalists, is top notch. You almost feel like you're listening to the record.

    The album includes three soul covers, including one by an obscure (to me) Australian R&B band, a classic by Otis Redding and an great raving gospel song. This has the effect, actually of highlighting the soul and gospel elements in Tim's original songs itself, in a way that really works. I remember reading @KangaMom's recollection of this era and how to her a lot of R&B and soul music was really new to a lot of young people in this era. As an American this stuff is such the fabric of every day life, especially growing up in the seventies and eighties, I think we take it for granted.

    There is something about R&B that will connect to all human beings for eternity, I think. Like Mike Chunn said in the Split Enz biography as an aside "R&B will never go out of style."

    When I first heard this I dismissed it but now I really like the album overall, and given the dearth of official Tim live releases it's very welcome to hear him. I do have a good deal of Tim live records. Compared to late career shows, Tim's banter is a bit stilted, what little of it there is, but we're here for the music and this one delivers for me.

  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    One thing I do miss from this show is a few Split Enz songs, though.
  10. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Live At CBGB

    This really is just the three-piece acoustic Crowded House: no Eddie Rayner in sight. Had he not joined the touring group yet? Was he out sick? The answer sadly is lost in the mists of time.

    But wowza...what a great show!! They really made it work as a trio, it all sounds so good! I do miss the organ solo in "Don't Dream It's Over" a little but this is so much fun to listen to! The banter is laid back and a bit dirty, and pure fun. Paul as much a frontman as Neil.

    The audience seems to be a mix of legit Split Enz fans and people who don't know who they are -- this was recorded before "Don't Dream It's Over" took off, so Crowded House's height of US fame was still a few months in the future. At this point they were struggling nobodies from Down Under who the record company had already given up on.

    The last three songs, as mentioned are from a few weeks later down in Melbourne, and shows the contrast between the acoustic trio and the electric quartet with Split Enz-er Eddie Rayner on keys. These last three tracks were, I assume, tacked on to fill out a rather short CD, which is weird, but they are so good I don't care. Eddie's piano solo on "One Step Ahead" and "That's What I Call Love" (featuring original "bonobo" lyrics) and "Breakin' My Back" feels really rich here -- I don't think I've ever heard another live version of it. "That's about me being a wimp", says Neil. "No, really."

    Three part harmonies throughout are lovely (even if there is the occasional missed note.) Good version of "Throw Your Arms Around Me."

    Even though their music is mature and mellow-ish, there's a certain rock and roll wildness to Crowded House's live performance, something supplied by the juxtopositon of the wild and crazy Paul and the sober self-deprecating straight man, Neil and the way their overall chemistry comes together.

    Sad that we will never see their like again.

    I'll give it a 4.9/5. I love all versions of Crowded House but incredibly, I don't think they hit their stride until late 1991/1992.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  11. brownie61

    brownie61 Forum Resident

    Live at CBGB

    OMG, this is wonderful! I’m sure I said earlier in this thread that I generally prefer live CH recordings to most of the studio recordings pre-Together Alone, and this recording is an example of why. When I want to listen to these early songs, this is what I will listen to instead of the first CH album. For me, this recording is better in every way. Gone is the dated, stilted production, and the songs stand on their own as the great songs that they are. Neil’s voice is wonderful, not that high(ish) pitched, not-yet-mature sounding voice on the debut album that doesn’t appeal to me. This is the Neil I love. And the banter! Paul cracks me up, as always. The CH stage banter of this threesome was all part of the appeal for me. Sadly I did not know of CH at this time, or I surely would have gone to this show!


    As for the 3 additional tracks from Rock Arena, they don’t fit with the sound and vibe of the CBGB show, and I could live without having them included here. (Although I do enjoy the Rock Arena DVD very much.)
  12. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    This is true. But to be fair (and not to tar any other Australians) I grew up in a relatively small city outside of Melbourne and just didn't have access to R&B music. Maybe my parents did listen to it but I don't recall seeing it in their record collections although they had quite a lot of other stuff I did like (Beatles, Daddy Cool etc.).

    And yes, it was my gateway to listening to a lot more R&B...
  13. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Nottingham, UK
    You saved me from having to dig out my notes :)

    This disc is a somewhat bittersweet affair. There appear to be very few inline/soundboard live recordings from the band's early years/tours. At least, very few of them have ever been released. In that sense, this is something of a treasure. It's a chance to hear the band in a very formative phase, getting to know each other and getting to work out how to play together. However, as I noted, all is not perfect. There's also a drop out during Now We're Getting Somewhere.

    If I sound a little nitpicky, I don't mean to be. It's wonderful to have any recordings from this era and, while the performance and occasional technical issue stop any of these recordings from being definitive (and making it into my fan club playlist) - which was the original point of my note-taking - this is still a wonderful snapshot of a band full of energy.
  14. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Vallentuna, Sweden
    Eddie became the touring keyboardist in early 1987 and continued in that role up to the NZ tour with Schnell Fenster in February 1989. He did miss one tour in that time, the European tour in July 1988 when Mike Gubb was the touring keyboardist. (He was also, as mentioned by Lance above, on the Rock Arena broadcast, recorded at ABC Studios in Elsternwick in Victoria on December 12, 1986 and broadcast in Australia on New Year's Eve that year)

    Prior to Eddie, Gill Civil was the keyboardist for live gigs in Australia in August/September 1986 (around three weeks or 14 gigs in total). She is also in the "Now We're Getting Somewhere" video clip.

    On the European promo tour (circa 11 or 12 gigs in total) in September/October 1986 there was no keyboardist, just Neil, Paul and Nick.
    The band did six gigs in North America in November 1986: Yamashiro's Garden Room in Hollywood (November 11, 1986), a seafood restaurant in Seattle (November 15), an Italian restaurant in New York City (November 20), CBGB's on November 22 and then two gigs at Duke of Glouchester Inn in Toronto on November 24 and 25. I think Mitchell Froom may have been the keyboardist at the gig in Hollywood.
    (Source of information: the fan club book Ghost Cars on the Freeway, which includes a supposedly complete list of gigs as well as interviews with band members plus both Gill Civil and Eddie Rayner)
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  15. Left Hand

    Left Hand Forum Resident

    Hello again :)

    I wish I had that book.

    Just to help out to put a face to the name, on Peter Green YouTube channel, there is a performance with Mike Gubb :)
    (I didn't know about the source from I'm still emotional until I read this forum. It's been fantastic :))

    StefanWq [/QUOTE]I worked at a music copyright company (which was a joint venture by the Swedish and the UK collecting societies, with customers being several other European collecting societies) so I got some insider information regarding songwriting credits and royalty shares.

    Another interesting agreement with sharing credits but on this occasion only one person gets the royalties is Mark Hart with Supertramp.
    In one of his interviews on the website 'The Logical Web'

    TLW: You have composed several songs for Supertramp ('Where I stand', 'Sooner or later', 'Give me a chance') in which Rick Davies also appears. Did you really write them together or were they basically your songs?

    MARK: 'Where I stand' we did write it halfway. On that song Rick wrote the catchy part and I added the rest. The other two songs [Sooner or Later, Give me a Chance] were mine, but on both of them Rick gave me some really valuable ideas when it came to arranging. We signed them together for a legal issue, but Rick has never received a royalty for those songs.

    (I'll just put the full interview in here for evidence, in case anyone questions the source!:
    Mark Hart en "The Logical Web" (Marzo 2009)
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
  16. KangaMom

    KangaMom Queen of the Quokkas

    Do we assume that that the lineup for this show is similar to who was on the recording of Escapade? (Sorry if that information is on the Facebook page, I don't have a Facebook login).

    I've only had a chance to listen to snippets, but I can guess Venetta Fields on backing vocals, Wilbur Wilde and Joe Camilleri on sax, Ricky Fataar on Drums. I'd love to know who else was in the lineup. I definitely remember reading about this gig (at the time) but now can't retrieve from my memory who played.
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  17. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Well, it sounds like the same band but I don't know.
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  18. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Vallentuna, Sweden
    As Jo Jo Zep, Joe Camilleri released this live version of "Shape I'm In" as a 7" single (Jo Jo Zep – Shape I'm In (Live) (1983, Vinyl) - Discogs). I am a bit unclear on whether Jo Jo Zep was a pseudonym for Joe Camilleri as a solo artist or if it was still his previous group Jo Jo Zep & The Falcons. In any case, the single lists the line-up as being Tim, Mark Punch (guitar), Joe Creighton (bass), Ricky Fataar (drums), Joe Camilleri (sax plus lead vocals on "Shape I'm In"), Wilbur Wilde (sax), Allan Mansfield (keyboards), Steve Ball (keyboards), Venetta Fields (backing vocals plus of course lead vocals on "Ain't That Good News"), Mark Williams (backing vocals plus some lead vocals on "Dock of the Bay") and Sunil de Silva (percussion). Quite a stellar cast of musicians!
  19. StefanWq

    StefanWq Forum Resident

    Vallentuna, Sweden
    Live Bootleg Melbourne 1983

    I don't have the cassette that the fan club issued in 2018, but a friend in Australia did in circa 1992 send me a cassette featuring the same radio broadcast. The sound quality is a bit dodgy on the tape I have, but it is certainly a great glimpse into the brief Escapade tour (I believe there were around half a dozen shows in all, but I am not entirely sure. I am guessing there were also gigs in Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide at least). It's very interesting to hear songs from Escapade performed live and with such an excellent band too. Not many of these songs (apart from "Fraction Too Much Friction") were ever performed live again by Tim in his post-Split Enz solo career.

    Tim's voice was in top notch condition, that's for sure and he was singing with such confidence too. You can really hear how much he enjoyed performing these songs with these musicians. The highlights for me in this show are "Fraction Too Much Friction", "Staring At The Embers", "In A Minor Key" and the brilliant cover of "Dock of the Bay". The versions of "Shape I'm In" and "Ain't That Good News" are great too, showcasing Joe Camilleri and Venetta Fields' vocal abilities. It is surprising that Venetta Fields hasn't released that much as a solo artist even though she has such an astounding resume as a backing vocalist. She is certainly an extraordinary singer.

    Despite the dodgy sound quality, I'll give this live performance 4,6/5.

    Lance's comment that he wished a Split Enz song had been included in the set got me thinking... Crowded House have performed Split Enz songs live, as have both Tim and Neil as solo artists and as Finn Brothers, but have Split Enz ever performed any Crowded House songs or songs from Tim's or Neil's post-Enz careers during their reunion tours?
  20. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    No. And I don't think Crowded House has done Neil solo songs, either. I think there was one concert in the 21st cent. where they did one Neil solo song, sort of unrehearsed and off the cuff. But I may actually be thinking of "I Love You Dawn" which was not a solo song.

    I did hear a boot of Neil launching into "Six Months IN a Leaky Boat" once (Portland Oregon 1999, I think.)
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
  21. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Nottingham, UK
    I'm in that book! Kinda.
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  22. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Nottingham, UK
    I have a vague recollection of Neil and Nick appearing on Hessie's Shed at the time Neil was promoting Try Whistling This and all three of them playing She Will Have Her Way. I'm sure I have that show somewhere (it's a very strange thing to witness - there was clearly still some tension between them) but I can't find it immediately.
  23. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Yes….I remember that one.

    It was One Nil era though. I have no idea if I have that or not that may have been one of the ones I purged.
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  24. HitAndRun

    HitAndRun Forum Resident

    I found this:

    Goin' Your Way - Wikipedia

  25. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

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