Stranger than Fiction, Larger Than Life: the Finn Brothers song-by-song discussion thread

I'd been familiar with the "The Ladder Song" for well over 20 years, having picked up the compilation Other Enz in 2000....which I think I've bought three times, the last time it cost me about a hundred dollars with shipping! (back in 2010 or so.)

I really enjoy the music of "The Ladder Song": the duel lead guitars and the propulsive energy of it, sort of like a power pop Wishbone Ash, which works a little better than I'd think. The lyrics are humorous but also a little...well, dodgy. The whole fat-shaming thing. It was a thing forty years ago -- hell, it was a thing thirty years ago and it's only recently that kind of thing has become (rightfully) taboo. Although it still thrives on this board, sometimes -- thankfully not on this thread. Eh....sorry about the digression.

Geoff's vocals are fine on this album:, no great shakes, but adequate and the other guy's vocals, while less impressive, are also adequate for this kidn fo music which has elements of Roxy Music, prog, and power pop/new wave, as well as 50's rock and roll embedded in it. Most of all, I hear the unmistakeable influence every now and then of early Phil Judd (or Judd-Finn) in the songwriting. It's in the the phrasing of the vocals, the way the melodies jar against the chords and a certain overall presentation that I think is more than just Mike's presence on bass, though doubtless his flavor brings that Split Enz feel to some of the more ballad-y songs.

However, there's a certain emotional something that Phil has vocally (shrill and thin though his voice is) that I don't find here.

I've only been able to listen to this album a couple of time and for the most part I didn't really pay attention to the lyrics. It's certainly features some very delicious guitars-bass-drums playing. It's fun to listen to just for that. I enjoy the sound of this album a lot: that dry drum sound and those squalling guitars. Sweet.

Despite all that, I guess I find the songwriting overall...well, not exactly bad, but certainly second tier. A few songs stand out beyond "The Ladder Song", which I know so well I can sing along with it; "Blue Lagoon", it's fifties R&B textures bringing a sort of seventies glam feeling to proceedings; the quite lovely "Julia", which is probably the biggest revelation for me here. The rest of the album seems like all these great rocking riffs in service to not very memorable songs.

It's not fair to give ratings to albums I really haven't spent that much time with; repeated listeningasn and examinations of the lyrics might prove eye-opening; so for now my provisional vote of 2.8/5 is just that: subject to change in a universe where my time is unlimited and I could give each album a really proper listen.

 

Our votes for Citizen Band:
1-0
2-0
3-2
4-3
5-0
Average: 3.0667

 

note: next week I'm going to hold up the second album by The Citizen Band, Just Drove Through Town; as well as their live album CB Bootleg and their compilation Rust In My Car...basically the rest of their work.

Just Drove Through Town doesn't stream, and is obscure enough that I've never come across any needle drops (having searched long and hard for about 3 minutes a year and a half ag0.) So I won't be surprised if the week after next is a bit of a dead week; still at least a few of you seem to be familiar with the album and I'm certainly interested to hear your thoughts!! I do have the Rust In My Car compilation digitally.

 

This week, two albums:

• Rock Arena - Crowded House (1986 performance, released on DVD-R in 2007)
• Live On The Rooftop-- Crowded House (1987 performance, released on CD in 1997)

 

This week's first album is Rock Arena by Crowded House.


Rock Arena was recorded live at Elstenwick Studios in December 12th, 1986. Recorded a few weeks after the CBGB's gig that we discussed a few week's ago, this one constrasts sharply with that gig, being electric rather than acoustic and features the great Eddie Rayner of Split Enz fame on keyboards who would join the band for the next few years live. With Eddie, Paul and Neil playing together, you've got basically almost more than half of the final line-up of Split Enz!

Rock Arena was, I believe originally broadcast on New Year's Eve television special (a real coup for the up-and-coming band, I reckon). At the time, I believe that "Don't Dream It's Over" was just beginning its very slow creep up the American charts, gaining airplay in key markets in LA and New York City.

Rock Arena was released on DVD-R by the Frenz of the Enz fan club in 2007...and has been uploaded (for several years now and long may it stay) onto YouTube., which is where the above link comes from.

The tracklist is:

1. Introduction
2. Auld Lang Syne
3. Recurring Dream
4. Something So Strong
5. Breaking My Back
6. One Step Ahead
7. That's What I Call Love
8. Mind Over Matter
9. Better Be Home Soon
10. Love You 'Til The Day I Die
11. World Where You Live
12. Now We're Getting Somewhere
13. Sister Madly
14. Hole In The River
15. Don't Dream It's Over
16. This Is Massive

In addition the video included two more tracks recorded on February 15th, 1987.

• Don't Dream It's Over
• Hosting Countdown

Line Up:

Neil Finn: lead vocals, guitar
Nick Seymour: bass guitar, vocals
Paul Hester: drums, vocals

Eddie Rayner: keyboards

 

The second album this week is Live On the Rooftop.

Recorded a month or so later on January 22nd, 1987, Live On the Rooftop was recorded, as you'd expect, on a rooftop.

The rooftop in question was Myer's store in Melbourne.

At the time, I believe Crowded House were involved in a furious schedule doing uncharacteristic promo gigs (house parties and the like) to promote the stalled Crowded House record; meanwhile in America, "Don't Dream It's Over" had finally entered the Top 100 of the American charts (at #85) on January 11th; it would climb to #68 on the following week's chart.

Live On the Rooftop was released by the now defunct Frenz of The Enz fan club in Novemer 1997.

The tracklist of the album:

1. Anarchy In The UK
2. When You Come
3. Recurring Dream
4. Mean To Me
5. World Where You Live
6. Love You 'Til The Day I Die
7. Mind Over Matter
8. Hole In the River/Still Emotional
9. Don't Dream It's Over
10. That's What I Call Love
11. Now We're Getting Somwhere
12. This Is Massive

As always, thanks to @Paul H for teh use of his detailed discography for some details.

 

An updated list of albums to be discussed:
I will interrupt this schedule to discuss new albums that are released in the next year (I expect three from Tim Finn, one from Liam.) I will discuss those two weeks after their digital release.

1. Just Drove Through Town -The citizen Band, along with the rest of their recorded oevre
2. Spring Break '87 --spring 1987, Crowded House
   State of Mind, August 25th, 1988
3. Practical Joker/Counting The Beat Phil Judd's Power Pop/New Wave combo with Bones Hillman who achieved a mega hit in Australia and that was it.
4. Marcia, Marcia Marcia April 6th, 1989
   Detroit Rock City September 20th 1991
5. The Swinger/Private Lives 1983 Phil Judd's debut solo album
6. Taxi September 25th, 1991
   Bent In Gent - October 19th, 1991
7. Rikky And Pete Soundtrack -- contributions from The Makers (Eddie's post-Enz band) and Noel's Cowards, Schnell Fenster and WEndy Matthews collaboration, songs by Phil Judd
8. Buffalo 91 November 24th, 1991
   Nick's Birthday Party December 9th, 1991
9. The Sound of Trees -- Schnell Fenster 1988 -- Phil Judd, Nigel Griggs, Noel Crombie and Michael den Elzen
10. In the Raw December 12th, 1991
    Graduation February 28th, 1992
11. The Makers -- Eddie Rayner and Brian Baker
12. New Castle Jam March 20th 1992
    HOmetown March 26th, 1992
13. OK, All Right, Uh Huh Oh Yeah -- Schnell Fenster
14. Nick the STripper June 20th, 1992
    One Night Stand June 24th, 1992
15. The Big Steal (soundtrack, includes Phil Judd, Teh Makers and Tim Finn/Phil Judd)
16. Foreplay July 17th, 1992
    Manchester Split November 21st, 1993
17. Hokey Pokey - The Makers, 1992
18. Dutch Treat December 3 1993
    Live In Berlin December 8th, 1993
19. Death In Brunswick Soundtrack album, Phil Judd
20. Back on the Bus 1993
    Live at the Warfield March 23rd, 1994
21. Mr Reliable: An Unbelievably good soundtrack to the Motion Picture (1996, Phil Judd)
22. Paul Is Dead April 14th, 1994
    Live at Fleadh June 11th, 1994
23. Horse -- Eddie Rayner 1996
24. HOMEBREW 1994
    Ghost Cars 1994
25. Largest Living Things - Largest Living Tings (Paul Hester's post-Crowded House band ,1996)
26. Acoustically Live 1994
27. Belvoir February 19th, 1996 Finn Brothers
28. Enzso - 1996, Eddie Rayner project, with contributions from Neil & Tim
29. Eyes Of The World, 1996, Finn Brothers
    Mood Swinging Men 1996 Finn Brothers
30. Largest Living Things II - Largest Living Things 1997
31. Kiwi Charms 1996 Finn Brothers
    Worst Kept Secret November 20th, 1996/LIVE AT THE CORNER DVD
32. Enzso II -1999
33. Exit STage Left November 21st
    Spooky Vibrations, released1996
34. I LIke It Rare VA from all members of Split Enz
35. Live TV 2 (Crowded House DVD)
    Live In America 1998 Neil Finn
    
    
36. Sleeper -Nigel Griggs 2001
37. Encore 1998 Neil Finn
    Live in the UK 2001 Neil Finn
38. Nada Sonata -Mark Hart
39. One ON One 2001 Neil Finn
40. 9.30 Club Washington July 18th 2002 Neil Finn
41. Play It STraight -- Eddie Rayner 2002
42. I LIke It Rare 2 (VA) 2003
43. I LIke It Rare 3 Paul Hester 2005
44. Novelty Act - Phil Judd 2006
45. I like It Rare 4
46. Love Is A ***** -- Phil Judd 2009
47. Unthinkables -- kind of an art dance studio duo featuring Phil Judd
48. Chaos And Triviality 2010 -- "Supergroup"of Eddie Rayner, Michael Barker and Brian Ritchie(of Violent Femmes) sort of jazz/rock spontaneous jams
49. Still Hot! The Conrays (Eddie Rayner cover band)
50. Play It STrange - Phil Judd 2014
51. Sediment - Eddie Rayner 2014
52. Enzso Stranger Than Fiction -- live 2014
53. The Backroom - Mark Hart
54. UniQue -- Phil Judd 2016
55. Alluvium -- Eddie Rayner 2016
56. Flightless Bird - Phil Judd
57. Planet Sublime Phil Judd

 

Rock Arena

An energetic fun performance; the band's 4-piece electric form has more range and power than it's three-piece acoustic form; recorded for TV and time being of the essence, however, much of the spontaneous wildness present at the acoustic CBGB's concert is gone here -- though, of course this is Crowded House. There are still moments of irreverent hilarity. A great set-list too, and the sound is great IMO: the bass is so rich and full on this, feels fuller and more prominent than on the studio records.

I love hearing "Breakin' My Back" done live -- as I wrote this is the only live version of the song I believe I've heard, and it's sweet. Eddie contributes amazing keyboards to "One Step Ahead", "That's What I Call Love" and the inclusion of "Mind Over Matter" is a real treat and a call out to Neil's late 70's roots. It's cool also to hear these early versions of "Better Be Home Soon" and "Sister Madly", too. The opening "Auld Lang Syne" track is cool. And it's interesting that "Recurring Dream" was given such a prominent place in the set-list -- I suppose it ahd been released as a B-side by now, but must have been regarded as a bit of a rarity and left-field choice.

Overall an excellent document of the band in that final bit of that brief phase before they really hit it big in the US (And Down Under) that I think we're really lucky to have!

5/5

 

Rock Arena

This is a very enjoyable DVD, but I have to admit that without the visual aspect I’d probably never listen to it. I love to watch them - I love the painted jackets and the great haircuts (mostly Neil’s), and they all just look great. As always, Paul has me in stitches with his comments. But musically, this isn’t really to my taste. It is of its time, and suffers from all the things I dislike about the first Crowded House album. I especially don’t like Eddie’s keyboard sound (sorry Eddie). Maybe without the keyboards I’d like the music more. There is no comparison with the CBGB’s show, where everything just gelled and the songs stood bare as the great songs they are. The keyboard frills detract, I think.

4/5

 

Live On The Roof

This one suffers a bit for a couple of reason; the first is that there is some intermittent tape warble throughout -- not enough to render it unlistenable though. The second reason is I literally just listened to the Rock Arena a few hours before. I find that the Rock Arena performance to be a tighter, more energetic, more rocking performance overall. This one is a bit mellower, with Eddie's showiness (that is Eddie, right? @StefanWq? I can't keep all these early pre-Mark keyboardists straight) dialed back a bit.

Still the performance is spirited and it's a good snapshot of the band as they were beginning to ride the high wave of commerciality in 1987. The fact that it was recorded live on a roof is pretty cool, too. The version of "Mean To Me" here is pretty cool, I don't recall hearing them play it quite this way before, and the version of "Mind Over Matter" is also enjoyable here. This must be the earliest version of "When You Come" officially released. The swirling keyboards are nice, but this is a pale shadow of what the song would later become.

I fell asleep while listening to this, as I often do when listening to Crowded House live...Now, I know that usually when you say something sends you to sleep that's thought of as a bad thing. Far from it with me. Crowded House and Beach Boys and the Beatles are all music that is so warm and familiar, that I relax completely when hearing it....it's like drinking warm milk at home on a cold winter's night with the fire on...... which often sends me straight to sleep. I only slept through the coda of "HOle In the River", "Don't Dream It's Over"and "That's What I Call Love" and woke up to hear "This Is Massive" closing the set.

Some of what would be Crowded House staples ("Hole", When You Come" "World Where You Live") seem pretty tame at this point. They were still developing as a band and though they were undoubtedly great, their live heights were still a couple of albums off, and those songs do not have the epic majesty of their 1992 apex.

4.5/5

 

Live on the Rooftop

There's occasionally something that leaves me a bit unsatisfied with some CH fan club recordings. And, I think that @brownie61 hits the nail on the head. While the band typically doesn't have fancy stage design, CH concerts are quite visual, supported by the costumes, the actions/antics of the members etc. Also, i think there is some magic to being there that is missing when listening to the audio only from a recording.

That said, these are good performances of the songs. The songs are mostly a fairly straightforward choice for that era, with Anarchy in the UK and Mind over Matter being the least expected songs.

Songs like Mean to Me really work live, punchy and with ample forward movement. The middle section introduces something new to the song.

Later on in the recording I'm listening to it sounds as if there is something wrong with the recording and instruments warble in and out of pitch a bit. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it is off-putting.

3.5/5

 

Live Rock Arena

Ah, yes, now we have the visuals. Yes, this is great. I would like to have a full quality DVD of this. The song choices are again what they would be for that era. Plenty of good songs and again like Live on the Rooftop the band is tight and the songs rock in their slightly stripped down for live form. Mind Over Matter and other songs aren't just duplicates of the previous live versions.

The star of the show is Eddie Rayner's hair. Did he ever have more rock star hair? Eddies skills on the keyboard really add to the concert. He isn't just playing like they do on the record. I was wondering if suddenly the band would stop playing during Eddie's solo like they did on another concert, but no.

Being able to see them adds considerable listening/viewing pleasure. They look so young

4.3/5

I'm not sure how often I will participate in live fan club album releases. There are quite a few of them. I think that if I try to cover all of them I may get a bit ... less engaged with the same songs being presented live.

 

The fact that there a lot of them diminishes them a tiny bit but if there is one blanket issue it’s the dry soundboard sound with an audience that’s not miked. So there is something a little too direct about the sound and you miss the natural room echo and the audience interaction.

Of course they were not recorded with listeners in mind; they were recorded so the band could review their performance.

 

Same here. Not only do I think it will get repetitive, but I don’t have them all. Live on the Rooftop is one I don’t have.

 

Yeah. When you listen to them every day they get old fast. And I’m sure most of us have!!

But for me listening to a couple once every two weeks or so is fine. Sometimes I think If I hear “Don’t Dream It’s Over” live again I will die though.

 

I like having a single live album with that sound. I also like that (in my opinion) the 1986-7 Crowded House grooves. It's a very straight groove, not (e.g) funky, but they lock in very well together to good effect. But, I don't need too many recordings of that.

 

Rock Arena
When this was first uploaded and I saw Hole in the River (I hadn't heard the song before) I was so captured by it that I actually bought the self-titled album to hear the studio version (the studio version wasn't up on YouTube at the time). So for that reason, I'll have to give this gig a 5 out of 5 straightaway.

I cannot add much that has already been mentioned.
Visually - they looked fantastic (kudos to Nick Seymour, those first costumes he designed where very unique and gave the band an identity during the 1980s), and the hair was great too (I think Paul had a little bit of a mullet too)!

Performance - as mentioned, very energetic.
It might be wrong, but I thought some of the song (for example, love you til the day I die) were a tad faster than the studio version. Not a criticism at all. Just as an example how Crowded House has played their songs slightly differently during the duration.

Another thing, Neil I thought definitely showed a performance that he was on a mission. Probably one of reasons why Hole in the River got me hooked.

Other favourites from the gig for me were One step ahead, love you til the day I die, That's what I call love.

I do prefer these 4 band lineup performances. I love to hear the electric guitar and the keyboard. I thought Eddie Rayner was great with the band (of course he is a brilliant keyboardist) and suited the times of the band when they were going to take Australia, USA and then New Zealand by storm.
(Anyone curious - 1985/1986 Mark Hart was on his first tour with Supertramp)

Exciting times for the band were coming...

 

I'm going to revise my vote down to about a 3.5. The more I think about this, this is not nearly as good as either Rock Arena or CBGB, and certainly a pale shadow of the greatness they would become. The fact htat it was played upon a roof is cool and makes it a memorable gig, but it's a fairly rote early 1987/late 1986 set list and even with Eddie Rayner, I generally find this period of their live show, good but not nearly as great as later stuff. The CBGB's give had a wild spontaneity and the Rock Arena had an intense, energetic focus; this one doesn't have either. It's good but not great.

 

Rock Arena is a fabulous DVD. As others have noted, it captures the band at a very particular moment: full of energy and comedy but not sure whether it's actually working for or against them. So they do what comes naturally and just plough on anyway. As with many live shows, I think it works far better with visuals than without but, as this is a DVD I'm reviewing, all is good

I've barely watched this for the same reasons that I barely watch anything these days: time is against me. But if live performance is supposed to be fleeting - loved in the moment but then gone - then this is one live moment that I'm happy to savour having witnessed rather than lament not watching over and over again. I've not been giving whole albums a rating but I'd put this on my Essential list if I had one.

Live on the Rooftop: this is more of a curate's egg. Fascinating and hugely important due to the scarcity of high quality recordings. And yet also so utterly frustrating. The performances don't quite come together and, more annoying for me, there's the awful sound of tape stretch that afflicts several of the songs. I listened to this the other day in expectation of it's appearance in this thread and, yeah, its brevity is possibly its greatest asset. Nicer to have than to listen to.

 

Rock Arena

I hadn't actually watched this until this week. I have many of the fan club CDs, but not this DVD. The fan club really spoiled us with the huge number of live CDs, rarities CDs, live DVDs, signed items and so on (in addition to the newsletters and Peter Green replying to all letters you sent him), so it was a bit tricky to keep up. I can well understand why I missed this DVD when the fan club issued it in 2007 - this was the year my wife and I got married and also, a few months later, my wife's big PhD graduation party (both the wedding and the PhD party were entirely financed by us and had lots of guests getting 3-course dinners) so the financial resources for other things were a bit slim...

Anyway, it was great to watch the Rock Arena concert now. So great to see a Crowded House concert from 1986, just before the debut album really took off sales-wise. It's a very interesting set list, starting with "Auld Lang Syne" and then "Recurring Dream". A bit surprising that a non-album B side would be the first Crowded House song in the set. It's also a nice surprise to hear them perform "Breakin' My Back" (had it actually been performed live before that?) and "Mind Over Matter", not the Enz songs one might have expected to hear at this point in time. And early versions of "Better Be Home Soon" and "Sister Madly" too. Perhaps one benefit of the band not yet having achieved mega success was that obviously nobody was expecting a "greatest hits" kind of set list.
There's great energy in their performances, even if the audience in the TV studio seem a bit mute. I think it was a great choice to ask Eddie to be the keyboardist for live performances, I wish I had got to see Crowded House with Eddie back in the day!
I also like the visual aspect. The stage costumes are the same (or at least similar) to what they wore when I saw Crowded House live a few months earlier. I remember thinking at the time that it was nice that they carried on the Enz tradition of artistic stage costumes while also doing something new with that.

All in all, a great concert DVD and great that it is on YouTube as well!
5/5

 

I had heard the Rock Arena show before, but had never seen it. This is a really special show, they are so very hungry. For me the high points are Nick's phenomenal bass playing and Eddie blending in seamlessly with the others. I guess I've come to take for granted that Neil is an incredible front man and that Paul can be both musical and hilarious. The sound mix was really good, the video was surprisingly watchable for its YouTube quality, and I hope to watch this again when the mood strikes. It's strange to think of this as being 35 years old, it's very fresh. Plus, it's got a ripping version of "Recurring Dream".

4.8/5
________________________________

I hadn't listened to the complete Live on the Rooftop for several years, but the bulk of it is the core of a 1987 live CDr I made many years ago, it gets played regularly. The Fan Club CD itself is one of my Crowded House treasured possessions (along with a couple dozen other treasured CDs and DVDs). I don't mind the tape stretch issues too much, but they do bring the rating down a little. Because they're worst during Don't Dream It's Over, I can easily skip over it, there are plenty of other live recordings of it. Hopefully someday there'll be software invented to compensate for this type of tape issue, and the solution won't sound like autotune. (I'll take tape stretch any day over autotune.)

I usually prefer studio recordings, but the Fan Club CDs give a different enough listening experience that I enjoy them more than any other band's live recordings. (Split Enz comes close.)

4/5

 

Live on the Rooftop

I remember it was very exciting when the fan club started offering live CDs. The first time was in late 1996, when the first four CDs were on the fan club's sales sheet. There were batches of four new CDs around every fourth month or so. At the time, it was a bit difficult to afford them all so I'd prioritize those with the most interesting track listings. From the first three batches, I got nine out of 12 CDs plus the Spooky Vibrations CD which may have been sent as a bonus thing (a CD essentially consisting of stage banter only). In November 1997, there was an offer that if one bought all four new fan club CDs released at that time - In The Raw, Hometown, Nick The Stripper and Foreplay - you'd get Live on the Rooftop for free. It was too good an offer to miss so on that occasion I did buy all four and got Live on the Rooftop as well.

It's a very interesting document of Crowded House on home turf in early 1987. I wonder how big the audience was, given that the gig was on a rooftop. The set list is fascinating, opening with their brief hilarious version of "Anarchy in the U.K.", the then-unreleased "When You Come" and the non-album B side "Recurring Dream". The latter one really should have been on the debut album as the closing track, it's such a brilliant song. Again, very nice to hear "Mind Over Matter" as part of the set and also the brilliant "Now We're Getting Somewhere" (when was the most recent time that song was played at a CH concert?). I am not so keen on the "Still Emotional" rap tagged on at the end of "Hole in the River", it just breaks the mood of the song in a strange way, almost making a parody of it. I think it was much better when they later would segue into Nick Cave's "The Weeping Song".
It's a very spirited performance but it falls some way short of the Rock Arena concert, perhaps because most of the stage banter has been edited out (or maybe there weren't that much banter?), but it certainly a very nice CD to have.
3,9/5

 

I have just learned that the Tim Escapade show from 1983 that we recently discussed will become available via ARCA Desk Tape Series, which has previously released Neil's Solo at the Seymour Centre 2010 show as well as Crowded House's Live '92-'94 Part 1 and Live '92-'94 Part 2. ARCA means Australian Road Crew Association and as I understand it their releases are to benefit road crew who have been hit hard by not being able to work due to the pandemic. There was an extensive message about the Tim show on FB which says it will be released by them on February 1, to be titled Tim Finn and the Escapade band Live at the Venue St Kilda 1983. They provided two web links:
Home - ARCA (australianroadcrew.com.au)

https://ffm.to/timfinnandtheescapadebandlive

The latter link doesn't seem to work yet, but maybe it will start to work on February 1.

I think this means this show will also be available on Spotify and iTunes.

 

Well, that's good news, maybe the sound will be a bit better if it's professionally mastered. I guess it was originally and the source will still be a home-recorded cassette.

I wonder if Tim really has nothing else to release, though.. It would kind of be in character for him to never record anything, the complete opposite of Neil in this respect.

 

I was on the rooftop. Myer's were giving away free tickets. I took some pics which are all a bit blurry. Great fun...