Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

Also, are you really running Pallas Brown in one channel and Pallas Black in the other?? Doesn’t that sound very weird..?? (Or did I misread that?)

 

I too am a bit phased by this, but in the fact that the two sets of RCA's which are the outputs from the RIAA to the amp. Where as, I though the cables being tried were between the SUT and RIAA - so there is only one pair of inputs into am M6RIAA?

Nige.

 

I'll also be popping the lid of my M6 next week to put in some new rectifiers so I'll see if I can see which set gets the primary feed.

 

I had one length of each to lend and the experiment was only to confirm if a low capacitance cable in that position connecting the S3 to the M6 RIAA would be more suitable than other cables. We were aware there would be channel differences but this was to verify why AN chose to hardwire some of their step ups with Pallas. I normally have 2 runs of the black Pallas on hand but I lent one out to Seb to audition between a CDT 3 and his AN dac.

 

It will be the bottom set.

 

It has to do with the alignment with the circuit board. With my DACs it is always the lower set that are direct connected.

As finn has said, the first version of the new Pallas are unshielded to minimize the capacitance. There is now a version that is shielded.

 

The bottom pair of output RCA’s are directly connected to the output transformers. There are solid silver jumpers then connecting up to the centre pins of the top pair of RCA’s and then from there over to the balanced outputs which also have a direct transformer connection but only on the out of phase pin. This is the case for M2 Balanced and above, Pre amps below can have the wiring transposed between top and bottom and visual checking confirms which RCA has the direct feed from the output board. It’s just me being me in wanting the absolute, it’s no big concern, the Pre amps will always have signal on the top pair of connectors just as the bottom pair.

 

Since we're discussing outputs and how they're wired, I had a somewhat related question (I think).

@finn, what exactly does the Single Ended/Balanced toggle switch do on an Audio Note preamp? Does it lift ground on the outputs?

I'm running balanced, and I don't hear any difference if I toggle that switch.

 

pretty much clarified but:
1. yes i used a brown and a black for this test (both pallas)
2. i do mention the m6 output rca's (2 sets of these, one upper and one lower) and of course this is not what the pallas is doing. pallas is connecting SUT and M6 RIAA. but during my trial i did switch the m6 output rca's i was using and so i note this. i think it did make a difference.

@Salectric i agree it is the capacitance that undermines the performance of the otherwise very excellent cable tested (sogon or sootto). it initially sounds quite thrilling with Sootto between SUT and RIAA. but at some point you realise all the bass is being removed and if you are like me at that point you think - NO!

how good does it sound? so good that i just contrived family out of house so i can listen to it today as i work.

 

I should have clarified my comment. The higher capacitance of cables used on a SUT can cause a rolloff in the high frequencies but it wouldn’t explain a bass rolloff. That’s why I am puzzled by the (relatively) poor showing of Sooto especially with Bocchino plugs.

As much as I like my Sogon for line level signals, it has never been my choice for SUT output cables.

 

@Salectric i am shocked that capacitance does not remove bass (or mids) but so let me just say that with the Sootto cable what i heard was a very different tone that, after a period of time, did not sound very excellent to me. with the Pallas i find the tone better but also the resolution is infinitely improved.

 

The instruction manual for your M3 has an accurate description for the use of the switch and what the grounding or floating of the output transformers hopefully will achieve with the issue of hum levels. There should be minimal difference in a well sorted system but in a system where hum on the output of the Pre is evident, the option to ground or float can be a minor blessing.
Given your P4 Balanced amps being manufactured with an input transformer that matches the characteristics of the output transformers of your Pre, there really isn’t going to be a better opportunity for the components to play nicely together. The design philosophy of the P4 Balanced is much more aligned to the Kegon Balanced than to a conventional P4 amplifier.

 

Indeed it does! Thanks for prompting a re-look.

When using an amplifier with a true balanced input, the ”BALANCED / SINGLE ENDED‟ switch may be set in either position. When set to the „BALANCED‟ position, the centre tap of the output transformer secondary is connected to the preamplifier’s ground. When set in the “SINGLE ENDED‟ (unbalanced) position, the secondary ”floats‟ in relation to the preamplifier ground. This provides the option of either a low or high common mode impedance to ground at the preamplifier output. Experiment with both positions to achieve the lowest background hum from the system.
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Your comments were helpful.

Speaking of instructions, did you ever read shampoo instructions? “Apply. Rinse. Repeat”. It never says, “Stop”.

 

Cath’s consultancy business has been involved with so many hair shampoos, body washes, beauty products both in ingredients, packaging, design, regulatory requirements and word/ grammar content for the last 25 years and we work together where she charges and I’m the bonus input so yes , I have read and written the instructions many times over and the absolute achievable is to make a product so good that you don’t want to stop using it. Only then have you done something special.
Sounds familiar?

 

Hello,

With the cold of the last few days in my area, I noticed that some screws holding the Woofer were no longer in contact with the chassis.
Can someone tell me about the woofer clamping force on an AN-E?

 

Not with exact values, but I have had the same happening. I asked my dealer and he said that it's a common thing and instructed me to tighten them by hand with a bit. If you handhold the bit you won't apply too much force, so there there's little risk of overtightening them. I now check them once in a while.

 

Great Thanx!

 

I just tried moving the couch (listening position) closer to the wall behind it. It did improve imaging and bass (a proximity effect I assume). And in fact, come to think of it, I think that's closer to the original position when I first arrived at my current setup. Won't bother you with the details, but I think I have sort of slowly inched forward because of a carpet that has a tendency to move.

It seems I can also get too far back, at least with the current toe-in of the speakers. They cross about a meter in front of my head's position where the soundstage is optimal.

 

Hi,

An interesting link to a forum page ref the Telefunken G73-R:Telefunken G73R

Nige

 

If you followed Joachim’s concept to a logical end then the cross over Point would be most likely 2 mtrs in front of you. It can work. The proximity to the rear wall works with the head position within 30 cms of the wall, greater than that and the difference between direct and reflected sound comes into play.

 

~30 cm head to wall (~15 cm to GIK Polyfusor) is probably about where it is now. Will see when I can find the energy to experiment more with toe in--those Townshend bars make it a PITA to move the speakers But I did in fact previously (before the Townshend bars) try toeing in the speakers even more, to the point where it got too much, but I'm not sure what my head position was back then.

 

Have been listening some more. We were at a (fantastic) live performance of Prokofiev's 5th symphony Friday, and I have been listening to Lorin Maazel's fabolous Decca recording of it several times since then. After having moved the couch back, the sound stage does indeed have more depth but the sound has become more crisp and smooth as well (in addition to the added oomph in the bass). I had for a while felt bothered by a slight hint of harshness, also when I listened to the symphony over the weekend, but that seems to be gone.
So thanks a bunch for prompting me to try this, @finn

 

About a year ago I bought an incredible souped-up Audio Note DAC 3.1x/II Balanced, modded by Ben Jacoby with a Level 4 output stage, top-notch NOS tubes, and other enhancements. After a deep rabbit hole dive into streaming transports, I landed on a Lumin U1 with some networking tweaks and an AN-Vx AES digital cable. It was sounding great, but had a tonal leanness I couldn’t quite shake, despite tube rolling my Oto SE Sig and a lot of speaker positioning tests. My TT2 analog rig didn’t have this at all.

I began to suspect the 2m AN-V interconnect and its silver conductors, and was inspired by some posts on here and elsewhere to try Belden 8402 tinned copper microphone cable with Switchcraft connectors. Ordered a set for $80 as a cheap experiment. Result: completely different tonality! Leanness gone, replaced by a big, open, effortless, full-fat tone that was completely intoxicating! But… it definitely lacked the resolution and - struggling to describe this - liquid eloquence of the AN silver wire. There’s a tonal density and expressiveness in the upper mids and treble that makes the AN-V intoxicating despite its leanness.

But - theory validated! I wanted to try AN’s best copper cable, the ISIS. Couldn’t find any for sale at the 2m/6ft I need… But there was a 2m Sogon on eBay… for $4k..!! Far more than I’ve ever spent on a cable, and more than I spent on my Oto brand new!! After a to-and-fro to validate their authenticity with AN, I girded my loins and took the plunge. It arrived yesterday.

I know first impressions of new gear are a bit of a landmine, as we get over-excited and in first listening we focus in on the most obvious positive changes - often later to revise our opinions in the cold light of morning… But… this is just wild - and I’ll be very surprised if there is any eventual downside from going V -> Sogon, so…

The difference is ridiculous. It has all the resolution and liquid agility of the V (more so), but the sound is huge! Big, fat, wide soundstage, huge presence from instruments and vocals, rich full lower mids and bass… It’s like all the best of the V with all the best of the Belden, and then some! The detail and delicacy and speed are especially startling, because it contrasts so starkly with this huge, fat, generous sound - you almost never hear a system doing both concurrently, effortlessly like this!

And it all sounds so right! This is what drew me to Audio Note in the first place: it sounds effortless and right, like real music.

Next steps:
1. Try the Sogon between my AN-S3 and Oto (currently using Vx). I’m not sure Sogon is ideal here, especially at 2m (capacitance?), but I imagine it’s no worse than Vx?
2. Upgrade the Vx digital cable to Sogon. I was shocked to hear similar differences between copper and silver in this cable (ISIS vs Vx), so now I’m motivated to get the best silver I can afford!
3. Try Pallas. Mainly thinking of the step-up here, but I’m also curious about the digital side.

I’ll follow-up if the cold light of day changes any of this!

Dunc

 

Very interesting. How did AN help you validating the authenticity of the cable?

 

Cool report @dunkyboy! It sounds like you’re having a lot of fun.

Can you clarify one thing? You mention both AN-V and Vx. Which one were you using before Sogon?