Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK) PART TWO

It’s an interesting question and it would be good to hear the results in comparison with the Gaia’s effect as well as in combination. I think they are both decoupling by different methods.

A few months ago I switched in a pair of AN-E Hiro (Big-E) which have a very heavy steel crossover enclosure under them. I’m convinced I’m missing out on the benefit I heard from getting my other Es off the heavy steel but it isn’t a practical to move them. I approached Gaia via their UK distributor and they recommended the Orea Indigo in between the Crossover/stand and the cabinets. That will be more expensive but may deliver similar results, which may also be more aesthetically pleasing than a custom stand (if Dave could be persuaded).

 

Thanks, nice to hear. Yes, subjective and so many things can count as you mentioned above with Hiro's. Definitely going to alter the sound to some direction when doing these type of big changes. Subjectively for the better hopefully of course.

Is there M8 threads at the bottom for custom spikes/feet?

 

Yes, they have feet with what look like M8 threads. They’re on carpet and still near impossible to move. I think the Oreas as they suggested will closer replicate what the wood stands do than Gaias under the crossovers, if that was what you were thinking.

 

I like Sound Anchors 3 post stand for my Js quite a lot they have a specific model for the K.

Audio Note ANK — Sound Anchors

 

Going from a weighted, quite damped stand to the timber stand would be a relatively significant change in the sound out of the speaker. Having the speaker sit on some form of bumper will only continue that change.
The Tulip wood used is the North American species which is a strong but light timber which would be why they are using it in the vertical elements of the stands. I have used Canadian Rock Maple in a similar fashion with excellent results but it is likely 5 times the material cost. The birch ply is a known material in energy distribution and it would contribute as well.
The end result of the speaker/ stand combination has to be looked at also from a perspective of room construction that is most commonly seen in the UK and so the results would differ considerably as different room surfaces and construction methods used in other countries are taken into consideration.
The UK solid brick and plaster typical older style house or terrace is going to sound probably better with the timber stands on a pair of E’s simply because of the less bass weighted sound generated by the steel and fill typical supplied stands. In a more modern constructed house in Europe or the US with timber stud and drywall, then the timber stands most likely would seem to render the speakers bass shy, fast but missing an octave in the bottom end.
At the end of the day, it’s not rocket science. The end result is determined by factors of the location in which they are placed.
The Audio Counsel stands exist because they sound better than the AN stands in the rooms of the clients buying them due to the construct and resonant nature of that particular room.

 

That fits completely with my experience. Both sets of Es are used in a house with solid floors and brick exterior corner walls and the bass is tuneful and not at all shy.

 

Being a recent Gaia convert - with a full set of Oreas on the way - after hearing what they do to MY system in MY room (light concrete walls/ concrete floor with laminate flooring)

Some general thoughts:
It's paramount that as much speaker cabinet induced distortion and resonances are elliminated, in order for your speakers to perish as sound sources to leave only the elusive free flowing soundstage - and nothing else.

As some of you may have experienced if running sub(s) their position(s) are (most) always given away by resonances and distortion from their cabs.
NOT from the undistorted music signal.
So in order to mask their location - like with the two front speakers - decoupling is mandatory - be it by Gaias or something else equally effecient.
It makes all the difference.
Even if you thought you didn't suffer the problem - think you'll be rather surprised "hearing it" - when first gone.

 

Have been a Gaia convert for several months now, using them on my AN-J/LX stands. Have been interested in checking out the Oreas for my Oto amp, CDT One/MKll transport and Dac 2.1x Signature dac. Would be interested to hear about your findings when you receive the Oreas.

 

Hi, I'm using Orea Bordeaux's under my Tomei and Indigo's under my M6RIAA, They are really very very good. They probably did not give quite the same level of improvement that the Gaia's (i use Gaia I's) did under my E's but i feel they were worth it enough to plan to put them under all my equipment eventually.

As I've written before there are others out there that may do more but then they will cost significantly more, which is fine but VFM is always a factor...

Hope you do try then and get the same as I did.

Nige.

 

Nige
Where are you putting the Bordeaux's on the Tomei? Under the feet on the corners? I think before you said you were only using 4 of them.

Norm

 

Coming soon... the rebirth of two classic small 'speakers, the AX-One and AX-Two. Now built in our Austrian factory, where all of our other 'speakers are made. Available in Walnut and Black Ash real wood veneers:


I am a big fan of the AX Two so I am very happy to see these come back

 

The IsoAcoustics website has a lot of relevant information on the Oreo’s including weight ratio/ optimum performance diagrams which would be useful in determining exactly what is required.

 

The optimum weight/ Oreo feet ratio for the Tomei is 4 x Bordeaux directly under the chassis, bypassing the original feet but not in the corners. Much more centrally located to the center of gravity, 2 at the rear on the outer edges and 2 at about a third of the way back from the front, also on the edges.

 

The Oreo’s will definitely influence the end result of what you hear but you need to be careful and by that, I mean, if you have a well designed and effective rack system in place, using the Oreo’s can be too much of a good thing. However if you are just placing your gear on glass, bamboo, granite or similar or a larger wooden sideboard, then they will work very effectively. I use a vesicular basalt stone for equipment support and it is ridiculously good at dealing with reducing vibration but using the Oreo’s created a very articulate but overdamped sound and one that I didn’t want to listen to. This was using them under a CD4.1 playing Ryuchi Sakamoto’s Insen cd which has a minimalist nature but a large and at times weighted soundscape so very easy to do comparisons with.
If I didn’t have the basalt in situ then I would use the Oreo’s under the electronics. In you situation, 3 of the appropriate weight load versions would be a great place to start.

 

Just for fun...
Since the Meishu (new, 24h) was installed, my hair hasn't come down...
Maybe more than a try??



I warmly thank my dealer Charly and my friend Werner for their help in installing the system, their experience with Audio Note is invaluable and it was a real pleasure to learn from them.

 

Thanks Finn!

 

@Richard Austen
WOW NICE, Richard!
Anything about their new price?
Surely must have taken a hike, cabs having had such a beautiful face lift.
Wonder too, if Austria has kept the same cab materials as the ol' std. version - or gone for plywood like in the Signature version, that for some reason - didn't gel quite as succesfully - then.
Exciting news anyway - that'll probably make a lot of people very happy. This little charmer put in the right context being able to perform on a scale unimagineable - even to ultra AN hi-end die-hards.
Having owned 2 std. pairs, I've keept one, paired with my little SEP Almarro a205a mk.II to make such a MMIH that it could easily be thee perfect "retirement system".
People coming to our house - AN die-hards - as well people who aren't audiophiles - have been totally gob smacked from what they'd experienced coming from this dynamic duo
And rightfully so.
There's such a synergy going on its hard to believe - the lil' TWOs standing in corners driven by the a205a mk.II (w/ Mullard Blackburn valves) is like having a small jazz combo in da house - really!
A "thereness" I haven't quite obtained with any of my other amps.
Being an immense AN-fanboy alright, make NO mistake about that - not to the extent of burrying the wittness of other greats.
Cheers Henrik

 

Pretty much as per what Finn says - although slightly differently, two behind the front two origial feet and then the other two placed between the transformers. Very stable all round.

I might try as Finn says to see if it makes any real difference.

But I can definitely say they are worth it.

Thanks,

Nige

 

Here is a picture showing the placement for the pucks under my Jinro:



I have later removed the original feet. I am using 6 instead of 4. And my main motivation for using them is being able to position the Jinro better, aesthetically, on my rack. Notice that I am actually not using the Orea’s, but rather the IsoAccoustics ISO-pucks. These are the same as Oreo, but made for pro audio. And as a result, have a much lower price.
You can also see in the picture that I had put them under every component. Later I have removed them again. Initially, they did sound very good under the components - more detailed, more open and “airy”. But after a while I felt that I had lost something. After A/B’ing, that something turned out to be the mid bass and generally the “drive” in the music. With the ISO-pucks everything sounded more hifi-correct, but without it was more engaging and fuller in the bottom. I do have the rack resting on a set of pucks. Maybe this is the reason it became too much with pucks also underneath each component, as @finn is touching upon.

So, after first having it everywhere, even under the TT2, I now use IsoAccoustics under Jinro, under the rack and Gaia’s under speaker stands. That seems like the perfect balance in my room. Dry walls and wooden floor.

 

Sorry I don't know the pricing - I remember comparing the AX Two to a set of many times the price B&W 805s at Soundhounds and they reminded me of the "Cup of Christ" scene at the end of Indian Jones and the Last Crusade where Indy has to choose the cup that Jesus would have made - the plain jane cup not the fancy looking cups that were the bringers of death! Indeed, the AX Two is one of the few giant killers in this industry given their absurdly low price.

But therein lies their problem. Terry - the owner of Soundhands back then said the problem is there was no money in them - They were around $700 Canadian in 2000 and dealers have to find space to put them and they're kind of plain and ugly compared to a B&W or a KEF LS-50 which are big names and easier to sell because of the reviews. You'll want their margins.

I didn't like the Sig version - when we compared them Terry and I both agreed that the cheaper plain version had the AN magic out of box and faster sound - the Sig seemed more shut in - perhaps it was the cabinet - but something seemed off to me.

My pair here is about 10-11 years old and I am fortunate that the foam is intact. Hong Kong is very humid and I was told to expect around 5 years before needing a foam replacement. So I'll take 10+ years.

I didn't care much for the AX One back in the day - I would like to hear those again - the room at Soundhounds may have been just too large to support them.

Anyway - I like them more than many speakers that are considerably more expensive from the likes of Harbeth or Spendor or Proac and the KEF LS-50 that I owned.

 

@finn
I have a full quartet set of Oreas on the way.
I'm fully aware they'll probably take some experiments to get right in combining them with the various bought/ and diy platforms already in use.
Perhaps having to remove some of it to not end like you said; with over dampening the sound. "Too much of a good thing."
I have high hopes though, the Oreas offering a lateral damping, none of my previous efforts have offered. So I'm very excited to hear what they bring to the table quite litterally, and will report back when (and if) I'm done experimenting.
That's a discipline I quite like; voicing and balancing everything to a T, making the end result sing in a way "no plonking down" would ever achieve - even cherry picking boxes from levels above.

Couldn't it be the ISO-pucks not being loaded properly/ enough?
AFAIR the individual pucks are specified to take quite a load - some 7+ kgs a piece, which would surely end like you describe it - the sound loosing weight and presence in the lower mids on down, skewing tonal balance to sounding etheral(hi-fi'ish) - without enough substance (flesh and blood).
Of course I'm kinda guessing here. But it sounds to me as if you have to go with the Orea graphites or bronzes to obtain/restore your old natural sound balance.

 

^ The ISO-pucks come in different loading variations. I did of course use them accordingly.

I suspect the rubber feet AN is supplying with their boxes are not randomly chosen.

 

@Richard Austen
Oooh how I love your analogy to Indy's "Last Crusade" where in the final scene he has to choose wisely among the many flashy wannabe Holy Grails to save his fathers life (AFAIR). This whole scene sending chills down my spine then - and even now from writing this.
The AX TWOs are speakers you choose with your instinct - rather than with your eyes.
Just like in the film.
Where Indy uses HIS instinct to reach for the humblest of cups, cause THAT would be the cup of a carpenter! (Or a customer using his ears and trusting his instincts to grab the most natural sounding speaker)
If course the other cups (read: speakers) have to have shiny trimmings and fancy woven colored speaker cones to attract the eye - and just like the shiny Grails hide the fact, that they'll be mortal to your enjoyment of music.
But I see the problems like you present them.
It takes a lot of self confidence from the buyer to cut off the noise from the glittered 'zines - and from what he SEES at the dealers - to go with the TWOs.
I know I hadn't yet found that courage in the early seventies to go with what my ears told me, ending up with less that I bargained for.
Who was I, ME compared to all the semi-demi GODS of the Audio Press?
(Meeting many of them later in life was a rather saddening afair - realising they were (of course!) just mere mortals, some even downright scary to tell what they heard for fear of being caught out "on the wrong leg" exposing themselves- but that's for another day)
The other thing is pricing.
The entry level speakers (E, J and K) of AN UK have always been kinda loss leaders, having nearly as much man hours going into each and every speaker, as with the far more expensive offerings.
And that's a lot of man hours.
Automatically making margins low on these entry level models, introducing new people to the wonderful world of AN UK -
(no exaggeration)
Which is why, it's perhaps tempting to make a quick gain selling something else.
But rather foolish in the end.
The smarter more candid salesman winning in the end, by having trusting satisfied (returning) customers, of whom many will come back for more knowing they won't be short changed.

 

Oh sorry my bad.
I thought THEY only came in that ONE version, them being a lot less expensive.
Of course fine looks are nice to have.
But if I'd known the ISO-pucks come with a variety of loading options - if all else being equal? - I might just have grabbed them instead of the Oreas.
Anyone compared the two loaded properly?

 

I didn't know that Iso-Pucks were available in other than an eight pack, wherein each puck can only support up to just 6lbs. I just looked them up, and found this version of the Iso-Pucks:
IsoAcoustics ISO-PUCK

Discussion about people's experiences with both:

IsoAcoustics ISO-Puck Series vs OREA Series