Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK)

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Richard Austen, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. NielsSS

    NielsSS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Well not the same speakers as those in the picture are k's and mine are J's. Not excactly the same veneer either but close. And the edges are the same
     
  2. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC

    I have an update on the DAC. I have been told by another member has spoken to Peter Qvortrup about the specific details of this DAC. Peter responded with two messages;

    First….

    This DAC is a 4.1x Balanced, ot a 4.1x Signature (or 4.1x Balanced Signature). Manufactured in 2010.

    He then followed up after he had given the DAC a more thorough investigation:

    I had a good look at the internals of the DAC and the I/V transformers are from a DAC5, and the outputs from an early DAC4.1x Balanced Signature, UHiB type c-cores, plus it has a significant number of Black Gate capacitors in it as well, all in very critical places, so I would venture to say that it is bordering on a Signature of a 2014 vintage for example.

    If you are the type that has to have a DAC that is designed and built in the last year or two, then this DAC probably isn’t for you. The AN DACs have more of an organic analog sound and doesn’t produce the sort of sound that an ESS Sabre DAC does.

    If you really enjoy the Sabre, then keep spinning CDs or streaming Tidal and have fun. If you’re looking for a natural sound with fantastic tone and texture in a relaxed manner, then the AN DACs may be for you. I have been enjoying my DAC 4.1/X Balanced Signature for years with no plans to change.
     
  3. Lewy74

    Lewy74 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    Hi,
    I’ve never posted on this site before although I have enjoyed reading a number of discussions, predominantly about Audio Note gear.
    I’ve been tweaking and rebuilding old valve amplifiers and guitar amps for a number of years on and off but currently have a kit build pair of AN-E speakers amongst others. I also have an audio note DAC and recently acquired old P2SE (made back in 1996). I’ve also previously owned an Oto SE.
    I set about re capping my amp as it needed it. I did speak with Audio note for some recommendations with regard to which type of capacitors to use. I noticed however that some specifications appear to have changed and some have stayed the same. I have made my own mains filter board (the one that sits on top of the transformer) using the same capacitor as audio note do (the older models do have the x2 mains capacitor but not combined x2/y2 cap with the additional earthing). I’m a bit stumped as to what the current spec is regarding the screen reservoir capacitors. These are the two smaller capacitors next to the four on the power supply board. There seem to be lots of different spec looking at pictures.
    I wonder if there is anyone on here with a modern P2SE who would be willing to take the cover off and take a close up picture of this board or would know the value of the capacitors and resistors on this board.
    mine currently has two 56uf caps but I have seen boards with 100uf and 68uf as well.
    I imagine this would just improve dynamics a little. The resistors are the two 15k ceramics in series and the two 2700 ohm in parallel- I’m not sure if these are changed with the caps to adjust the time constant and maintain voltage.

    Any advice appreciated.
     
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  4. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I had a question on another thread about what to do when one power tube goes in AN amp. AN amps are auto bias? So let's say in the Cobra amp 3 years down the line one tube blows and needs to be replaced - can you replace that one el34 tube or do you need to throw all 4 el34 tubes in the bin and replace the quartet? I have only had 1 preamp tube go in my OTO - so the same question applies to the EL84 tubes in the OTO.

    My Kingko amplifier is a push-pull auto bias and King noted that his amplifier automatically aligns the new EL84 to the others so you don't need to replace all 4.

    The discussion centers around manual bias having the advantage over auto-bias because with manual bias you can replace just one tube, not both - considering the ludicrous prices of some tubes at over $1,000 each - manual bias would seem to have an advantage.
     
  5. Acapella48

    Acapella48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elk Grove, CA.
    Interesting question. Akin to: Do you replace one tire on an automobile that's worn or keep one good tire as spare and replace all 4?

    Maybe @finn will chime in. It's one of those "It depends" kind of questions. Concerning the Cobra, after 3 years, I would probably want to replace the quartet because "depending" on how much the amp is played, the tubes could be reaching end of life. A set of new tubes would breath new life into the amp. Ditto with the OTO. As far as I know, there is no bias adjustment on any AN amps, at least none that I've seen.
     
    jonwoody likes this.
  6. jonwoody

    jonwoody Tragically Unhip

    Location:
    Washington DC
    What I've done in that situation before, not with an AN amp, is pull the bad tubes and use the remaining 3 as backup tubes and put a new set in. Then eventually get the three odd tubes tested and see if they're worth keeping often they are.
     
    Acapella48 likes this.
  7. Melody50

    Melody50 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    I brought Jadis Orchestra couple of years back and it blew one of the KT88 tubes and the local service team at the dealer changed both the KT88, on the problematic channel and adjusted the bias. on the Oto just last week one of the channel had some noise coming out randomly, the dealer got it fixed for me by changing only one channel Pre tube.
     
    jonwoody likes this.
  8. Melody50

    Melody50 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Thailand
    Does same manufacturer design there Amplifier with pushing the tubes too much that the wear out is more, or what whatever design the tube will last among different designs, I have used 4 brands of tube amplifier and Audio Note and Melody seems to be have longer tube life spans among rest of them.
     
  9. Lewy74

    Lewy74 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    I was always under the impression that even with auto/cathode bias, an ageing tube would have a weaker output. If this is the case, then in a push pull amp, wouldn’t the imbalance caused an increase in crossover distortion? In addition the left/right channel balance would be affected. In a single ended amp then just the left/right channel balance would be affected. I have, however, heard people say in older cathode biased amps like the Rogers cadet, that tubes didn’t need to be matched. I’m happy to be wrong but I owned and restored a couple of those and felt sure they sounded better with more closely matched tubes.
     
  10. Lewy74

    Lewy74 Active Member

    Location:
    London
    The modern OTO line driver/pre stage uses a single dual triode tube (ecc82 I believe), so the left and the right section, is in the same tube. Audio note and other suppliers can select Pre tubes with balanced sections so that the left and right channels have equal output. So in this case, by replacing one Pre tube, they are replacing both channels.
     
  11. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    @finn, I saw this post from you:

    I do hope that anyone who has a 300 b amplifier gets a chance to audition the ELROG ER300B tubes in their amplifier. I use them in some Audio Note P4 Balanced monoblocks and they are quite remarkable. Imagine a 300b that sounds like a 211, bass and grip of the speaker and quiet, real quiet. Changed my opinion on 300b's so you could be in for a surprise.



    Do you have a favorite 5687 driver tube for the P4? I have owned Sylvania GB-5687 and Amperex 7119 in the past, but no longer have them.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2021
  12. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    Curse the internet and it’s forever memory...!
    I wrote that years ago before I knew the ****storm of owning Elrog tubes and the 100% failure rate for the 300b tubes.
    As to the 5687 tubes, the old revered Tungsol bronze plates are my preferred plates of poison. Those particular amps now have standard AN supplied Psvane tubes, nothing flash. Generally, I either use AN 4300’s or Takatsuki 300b’s, both very different sounding tubes actually.
     
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  13. Musicophile

    Musicophile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norway
    finn: could you please elaborate on the difference in soundsignature of AN4300 and Takatsuki? I use at the moment the AN4300 on my Meishu Tonmeister Silver Signature.
     
  14. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    I don't have any of the really sought-after Tungsol 5687 tubes but I find the NOS Tungsol versions that are still available at reasonable prices to be pretty good. Definitely better than other NOS 5687 that I have tried and a lot better than the E182CC that is often suggested as a replacement for the 5687. In general I don't find the E182CC good as a driver tube in my Kit One 300B. It also doesn't work in the analog section of my DAC where it follows a E82CC--you can almost hear the distortion in loud parts of the music. However, I have heard it sound good in a ANK pre where it replaced 7044 tubes.
     
    finn likes this.
  15. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    The only place I use the ECC182 is following an E186CC in an M6 and Tonmeister Silver, works like a dream.
     
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  16. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Tungsol 5687 bronze plate. Copy that.

    I once loved Sylvania Gold Brand GB-5687 for use in Modwright source components. What's your opinion of that tube in P4 Balanced amps? Assume driving 4300E power tubes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
  17. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    No opinion as I haven’t ever heard them. I do have other Sylvania tubes and some are quite good value. The Tungsol’s just sound really good and not crazy money. I ordered the P4 Balanced with custom UHiB output transformers and they definitely influence the sound, lot more weight and drive over the IHiB or SHiB transformers so recommendations and descriptors of valve quality are influenced by that fact.
    The 4300 tubes are a pretty linear, cerebral appealing tube And the Tungsol sense of dynamic would work quite well.
    I thought you had all your AN gear for sale, are you using P4 Balanced now.?
     
    Gjo likes this.
  18. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Selling it all was under consideration, but I've gone completely the other way. Instead, I'm upgrading the AN system. P4 Balanced amplifiers to be ordered. I'm going to ask about the possibility and cost of upgrading to UHiB transformers.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2021
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  19. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    The Ultra’s are definitely worth it if you can swing it. I have a pair of low gain Quest silvers with UHiB outputs and those are little assassins. I run special Brimar military select 6j5’s, Taka’s and CV575’s, I don’t use them as demo pieces simply because they are loaded with Blackgates, silver tants and niobium’s and Sogon interconnect and SPx mains wiring, they are the gold leaf jobs on our Facebook page. You can crank them into the HE’s and they just won’t redline. I bought a new M5 a couple of months ago to use with them and it’s still in the box. We have been in lockdown for about 14 weeks now and I need to get going again, can’t have customers or mates over, only on line. We are closing on 90%vaccination and then the doors can swing open again.
    Cheers.
     
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  20. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Given your avatar, he could be forgiven for thinking that you were still a fan of Elrog ;)
     
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  21. ovs-audio

    ovs-audio Active Member

    Location:
    Netherlands
    Is there a sale page here ? i have a pair of lexus 96 biwire for sale.
     
  22. Acapella48

    Acapella48 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Elk Grove, CA.
    ovs-audio likes this.
  23. finn

    finn Forum Resident

    I’m still a fan of these though.
     
  24. Gjo

    Gjo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Well, after nearly six months of discussion and deliberation, I placed an order for AN-E SPx Alnico loudspeakers, and P4 Balanced amps with UHiB transformers. Now...the wait begins.
     
  25. J.Uotila

    J.Uotila Forum Resident

    Location:
    Espoo, Finland
    Congratulations! Sounds good! Why did you end up with the 300b, not the 211, with AlNiCo? Or P4 bal. + E SPx SE Sig?
     

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