Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK)

I am enthralled by Audio Note and are infected with the upgrade neurosis. After testing the SUT4, I understood that it was no way back. Got it today, just beautiful.


And, even worse, I just ordered a DAC 4.1x Balanced Reference. Sorry I have to wait for the production. I have experience with DAC 3.1x Balanced and have heard the DAC5, but not the DAC 4.1x Balanced Reference. Any with experience of the Reference? I hope it is worth it…

SUT3 vs SUT4 by Erik, on Flickr

SUT4 by Erik, on Flickr

 

I would expect that any AN amp would be expected to be used with, or at least compatible with, other AN components, it does not make sense that the Cobra would be voiced for just one kind of source. Also, AN digital is voiced quite close to their analogue sources so there is no reason for downstream components to have a voicing any different from their other gear such that it favors one type of source. I have not heard the Cobra, so this is just speculation on my part.

 

Having no experience with AN, I'm looking into the speakers listed above and not finding a wealth of information. My assumption is they could be an excellent choice for lowish power tube amps. But would they be a bad choice for SS amplification? I currently have PL tube gear and have an interest in more "tubey" sounding amps, but also in a tube preamp/SS power amp approach. I'm looking for a speaker that is happy either way.

Cheers,
Robert

 

Hi Robert I basically own those exact speakers in a different finish, I drive mine with a 17 watt pushpull tube amp and they sound fantastic. They are 93db and nominal 6ohm so I don't see why they wouldn't play well with SS amp a nice Class A SS amp would likely be a great match.

 

Thanks Jon. I'm pretty sure you're right. I assume the challenge for making sure it will work with both is mostly in the other direction. Easy to find a selection of speakers that will work with both SS and the higher power tube amps like mine, but when it comes to low power tubes that are fussier about a stable impedence curve can be a challenge. So my thought is to address this angle first. If it's happy with low power tubes, higher power of either type should work too. At least that's what I think - but happier to be set straight here than go ahead with flawed thinking...

Cheers,
Robert

 

I reviewed the Pureaudio One SS integrated amp with my AN E. Sounded superb. But the amp is a class A amplifier and is $10,000 although in SS land I consider it a "deal" because some SS amps sound either too thin or really dull in an attempt not to sound bright. And it was great with my M3 preamp.

I also liked my old Sugden A48b on my AN J/SPe speakers - but Bryston was terrible. So it depends on the amp design.

 

I sort of understand the quote because most of their other integrated amps have a phono option - except the I-Zero and Jinro/Tomei/Ongaku

And since the Cobra has an onboard DAC it sure seems "geared for digital."

The Cobra is push pull with no phono stage. The question you might want to consider is how much does an OTO PP or SORO PP with an added phono stage cost?

With the Cobra - you would then need to buy an external phono stage like the Audio Note R-ZeroII outboard phono stage. What is the combined price you have to pay for both units versus the SORO PP Phono? Or even the SORO SE Phono? The SORO is in the same wattage ballpark as the Cobra. And then you would have to determine if the R-Zero II is a better phono stage than the phono stage inside the OTO and SORO.

 

Excellent advice, and exactly the sort of considerations I am weighing. Thank you Richard.
--David B.

 

Price comparisons between the Cobra push pull integrated (28 watts) /phono stage and SORO SE Phono (18 watts) are interesting (prices are current UK retail and conversion rate from GBP to US$):

COBRA/R-Zero II - $6,150
COBRA/M1 RIAA - $6,650
SORO Phono SE - $6,700

 

Wow at first I just saw Cobra but now I see you have a combined price.

Wow these prices are really really close aren't they. Now we need the dealer or folks who work at AN manufacturing to tell us a little about the SORO phono stage and how it stacks up to the M1 RIAA and the R-ZeroII.

The SORO does have the Single Ended Pentonde advantage over the push pull topology. But the COBRA has the the advantage that with the external phono stage you are effectively closer to separates (though you also have the added expensive of an additional cable. The Cobra does also have the advantage that it effectively has the 0.1X DAC included and a remote control! So that isn't nothing!

I suppose the one option not mentioned is going with the M1 Phono Preamp and the P2SE power amp - this is the separates version of the SORO. I kind of prefer this option the most because it allows for future upgrading. AN integrated amps do not have preouts or preins so it is what it is - final destination - with the M1 and P2SE - you can always trade up to an M2 M6 or whatever or get the P3 or Empress monoblocks for the preamp. Plus you can buy a cheapo SS power amp from Parasound or Rotel or something should you need the added oomph or listening to background music and you don't want to waste tube life on it.

If that combination is in the ballpark price wise - it would probably be my choice - especially if I was not going to use the DAC and if remote wasn't a selling point.

At least you can never say they don't give you options!

 

Interesting indeed. Comes down to priorities. Built-in Dac vs Built-in Phono -OR- Integrated path vs going separates.

 

I'm not a dealer, but the phono stage inside OTO SE Phono and SORO SE Phono is the same as in M1 RIAA.

Signature Phono versions of OTO and SORO have the same phono stage as in M2 RIAA, which in turn is the same design as in M1 RIAA, but with higher quality parts; four AN Copper caps instead of polyprolyne caps and AN resistors instead of Beyshlag resistors.
(Standalone M2 RIAA furthermore adds M2 powersupply with tube rectification and regulation and better cabling over standalone M1 RIAA)

 

Audio Note uses four RIAA designs/schematics:

Level 0 – R-ZeroII RIAA (2 x 6112WA tubes)
Level 1,2 – M1/M2 RIAA (ECC83 and 6DJ8 and the difference between M1 and M2 being parts quality and M2 having tube based power supply)
Level 3,4,5 – M3, M5, M6 and M8 RIAA ( 3 x 5670 Same design through models, and the difference between M3 - M8 being parts quality ie. AN Cu caps -> AN Silver caps etc.)
Level 5 – M9 RIAA (6463, EF80, E80CC)

- R-ZeroII is a standalone RIAA only (so far)
- M1 RIAA is also used in OTO SE Phono, SORO SE phono, M1 Phono preamp.
- M2 RIAA is also used in OTO SE Signature, SORO SE Signature, Meishu Phono, Meishu Phono Silver, Meishu Tonnmeister Phono, Meishu Tonnmeister Phono Silver (all sans M2 tube power supply, but Meishu shares it's tube power supply with the phono-stage?) and M2 Phono preamp and M2 Phono balanced preamp (both with M2 tube power supply)
- M3 RIAA is also used in M3,M5,M6 and M8 Phono preamps. And in Meishu Tonnmeister Silver Signature (dunno at which parts quality level of corresponding 'M'-levels of preamps? But likely with M3 or M5 parts quality)
- M9 RIAA standalone only.

 

I'm making the assumption that you can buy, say, a SORO Phono SE and then ask your dealer to upgrade it to a Signature version further down the line? If that is right, then the price difference between the SORO Phono SE and Silver version is about $1,650. So you would get a one-box upgrade of sorts, in that the Signature version offers the same phono stage as the M2 RIAA phono (but without the tube power supply as noted) + better components.

 

The price of the COBRA/ M2 RIAA just edges the SORO Phono SE Signature, about $8,450 against $8,400.

 

If you mean upgrading the components inside the SORO Phono SE to Signature status, you could, but the work needed for upgrading normal SE -version to SE Signature means it wouldn't be very cost efficient; desoldering all the caps and resistors, and output transformers and soldering in the new components and output transformers. It'd be basically taking apart and re-building the whole amp. That'd cost way more if bought as a service from Audio Note than the price difference of SE and SE Signature models.

Upgrading just the phono stage components to Signature level wouldn't be a huge job to do. But you'd miss out on the music making goodies the better output transformers and other parts in full SE Signature model bring.

Personally I haven't listened to the ie. OTO SE vs. OTO SE Signature side by side (different set-ups, long time between), but everybody thinks there is a big difference in favor to the signature version. No wonder, as while the other components like caps and resistors do play part in the sound upgrade, the biggest impact are the output transformers that tube amps live or die by. And Audio Note knows few things about transformers
I upgraded from 'basic' Meishu to Meishu Silver (which has better output transformers) and the impact on the sound was huge!

 

I have not heard the Cobra. I also like most amps, like the Sora, that utilize the 6L6 tube correctly. As a rough generalization, I like 6L6 amps more than EL 34 amps even though I happen to own an EL 34 amp (the amp/energizer for my headphones, the Blue Hawaii SE, runs EL 34s). The type of tubes the two amps run probably matter as to the sound, so a direct comparison of features and price is not necessarily determine which is more desirable for any given listener.

 

I’ve been trying to decide on what level to get back into vinyl. As an experiment, I’ve borrowed a Rega P3 (but with an Audio Note IQ3 cartridge) and the AN R Zero/II phono preamp. I’ve been playing albums where I have the same album in CD and vinyl. The digital path is Audio Note CDT-4 and DAC 4.1X Balanced. So, no slouch there. Obviously, there are mastering differences and record conditions, but I’ve been surprised at how good that analog path is.

Yes, Audio Note gear gets better as you go up the levels, but even the lowest level stuff is amazing, particularly that R Zero/II phono preamp and the DAC 0.1X. My only point being that you don’t have to jump in at level 2 or 3 to get wonderful sound.

 

I had a Rega P3 for years. It's good, especially with the PSU to make the speed speed stable. Some have it for a life time and that's beautiful. I upgraded to the AN TT2 deluxe (second hand, less than half the price of a new) after four years, and I have found eternal peace and wonder why it took me so long to make the decision

 

Has anyone found a Dust Cover for the TT3?

 

I think you have to go the custom route. I had one made for my Nottingham. None of their TT's come with a dust cover; although NAS does supply a platter dust cover.

Looks like a record: Nottingham Analogue Space Deck & Ace Space Arm - Choice Hifi

 

I am using an old worn record - thanks to @Larry I for that idea.

I use a hair dryer to blow the dust off.

 

Are there non with experience of the DAC 4.1x Balanced Reference? It is level 4, but an upgrade from the regular 4.1x. While being quite more expensive than the regular 4.1x it is a lot less than the DAC 5. I am therefore curious on its signature sound compared to DAC 41.x and 5.

 

Never heard of 4.1x Balanced Reference? Audio Note website lists only 4.1x Balanced Signature as a model between 4.1x Balanced and DAC 5? Is the Reference model so new it is not listed on the website?
Bet it sounds awesome though Looking forward to your impressions when you get it!

 

There is no Reference model, only 4.1x Balanced and 4.1x Balanced Signature.