Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Richard Austen, Mar 19, 2015.
May ask, what your dealer thinks of this? Perhaps he lets you try another PC cord.
I see that you live in Switzerland, so you know Charly (he contributed enormously to my happiness with Audio Note)
I'm sure a PC loan would be an option.
When I bought my Dac2.1x Sig. I decided to leave with the two ISIS Main which were both great when listening to Charly.
I think I have to play around with the placement of the AN-Js and try again...
Hi Chris, I kind of understand what you mean. I had J-lx, Oto signature and similar cables. J:s are a bit more show off speakers compared to E:s and K imho. They tend play more on mid bass frequency and if one add components that increase that same area the sound can tend to get mushy depending on the acoustics. Isis cables added more in the lower notes in my system and didn't like it. However when I upgraded my J lx to J Spe was a game changer. J Spe gave more accurate bass and much more with Isis compared to stock. My opinion is that because J-spe can play the lower notes more accurate it was able to handle the Isis power cables (J-spe and Isis are also both level 3 components). I have a have 3.1x/2 balanced and PC change gives there the biggest change in my system and instead of making it more dull Isis makes the sound more alive. Maybe you should stick with the stock cables for now if they don't work but keep the Isis for later
Being a little sceptical is a healthy thing, especially in HiFi. Don’t let that cloud your thoughts too much though, as over the years I have been surprised by some components that I was feeling quite sceptical about.
I have taken the plunge on some cables and power regenerators and power bars over the years. My experience started back in 1991 or 1992 when I worked part time at a high end HiFi store in Hamilton Ontario (it’s long gone now). We had four brands of cables in the store and the only one that I felt was worth the money was the original Cardas Golden Five. Very expensive for 1991, but it’s cheap by today’s standards! These cables worked beautifully with my Classe Audio amp and preamp and my Magneplanar speakers as well as the Thiel CS3.5 speakers that I bought later. The other three brands of cables had little to no improvement in my system. I had no preconceived ideas as to which of the cables I would like or dislike. There was absolutely no pressure. If I didn’t like any of them, I simply brought them back to the store on Monday morning. I never did bring the Cardas cables back. I have always really liked their cables (although they didn’t always suit my system).
Along the way I tried several brands and used to mix the cables through out my system. Experience now shows me that the best thing is one ‘loom’ for the entire system. Same manufacturer and hopefully the same model for each connection. I have found it to be exactly as you said; way too difficult to mix and match and have any success. It seems like a recipe for failure to me.
I have owned the PS Audio P5 and twice owned the P10. I used to have an issue for a while with my Audio Note Meishu Silver Phono integrated amp blowing power fuses. The amp sounded great when it plugged into the P5 and I didn’t exceed the manufacturer’s max load recommendation. I phoned them and spoke to an engineer to be sure. As soon as I plugged the Meishu into the wall socket instead of into the P5, I stopped having fuse issues.
I sold the P5 to upgrade to the P10 and it not only improved the load capability but also improved the sonics of my system more than the P5. I was really impressed by what it accomplished despite the high purchase price.
I then had a dedicated line out in with 8 gauge cable, that was grounded with a ten foot copper pole. My Red Seal certified electrician checked for any possible ground issues and found none. So, the other grounding plates in that house were installed properly. When I powered up my system, I didn’t use the P10 initially to see what sort of improvement the dedicated line provided. It now sounded as good as when it had been plugged into the P10, but without the dedicated line. When I then plugged the P10 into the dedicated lines, it made a very slight difference. Very slight. Also the dynamics were improved a bit, not having the slightly inhibited current capabilities of the P10 in my system.
So I would say that some houses or apartments can really benefit from the use of the P10 or now the P20, but you’re talking really big money for the P20.
When I moved into my last house 4-5 years ago, I bought and later sold the second P10 as it didn’t help much in that house. I went without for a while and later did some research on the latest power products on the market. I was interested in the new Audioquest Niagara 7000 and 5000 products and the Shunyata line.
In the end, a local dealer let me try a Shunyata Hydra AV power conditioner. I could try it for a week and if I didn’t like it I could bring it back. At the time it was their previous model, having been superseded by the latest version of the Hydra (not sure of the name). This model does not seem to restrict the dynamics at all, it just seems to remove noise and lower the noise floor. Best of all is that music sounds more natural. The dealer told me that the newest models would improve things even more but they are considerably more expensive and it would be a small improvement. This power conditioner impressed me more than any other that I have ever owned. Very happy with its contribution to my system.
I have also improved my interconnects and speaker cables in the meantime. I am now running AN Sogon interconnects throughout and also just recently added Sogon speaker cables. I have hard wired AN Pallas on my AN-S8 SUT. So almost identical cables throughout and I have noticed that the more that I use the same cable, the more cohesive the sound became and the realism and resolution improved.
One final observation is that your system has to be a high resolution system before so called top quality interconnects and speaker cables make a marked improvement (assuming you’ve put the right ones in your system, after some research). When I see someone with a really old receiver and inexpensive speakers that are 30 years old say that they couldn’t hear a difference with a really good power cable or interconnect, I’m not surprised. They may enjoy music through that setup but it probably isn’t high resolution enough to reveal the differences. Best example of that was an individual On a different forum, a year back or two stating that he had been using the same cartridge for two to three decades and it still sounded good to him. Pretty sure that system wouldn’t reveal any differences. Heck I suspected that his cartridge was at the point of damaging his records and had a collapsed suspension.
My long winded point is that your new turntable and preamp and amps are now going to let you know when you have the right cables and power bar more than anything you played with in the past. You will definitely benefit from at least ISIS cables and probably should go up to Sogon. The timing, texture, cohesion, resolution and impact will all improve. Yep, it’s pricey at the top of Everest
I should have tied my thoughts together a little better. I wanted to say that had tried lots of brands of cables over the years and only one or two jumped out at me as being great in my system and in my house or condo. Cardas in the early days and Audio Note in recent years. Although Vertere are also very good.
I had also tried several brands and types of power conditioners as mentioned above, going all the way back to a top of the line Power Wedge 116 (great for the money). I have been most impressed by the Shunyata Hydra.
the PW116 ... that's a blast from the past. are they still around? i'm sure i've got one here somewhere ... don't worry, i won't do a write up on it though .
i still plug directly into the wall ... i have two dedicated circuits so its nice.
Oh thank god!
My absolute favourite is to have a quiet electrical line and a dedicated circuit and not have to use the Shunyata, but after a comparison of with and without, each time it's better with the Shunyata. I live in a townhouse complex of 57 townhomes, so as much as I would love to have a dedicated line, I suspect that it would be very tough to isolate everyone else. It was fabulous in my detached home that I had five years ago.
Have you ever tried using an ISIS power cable or a Sogon power cable as the main cable for something like the Shunyata? I put quite a good Shunyata cable on it, which was something like $1700 by itself. I have always preferred the more natural sound of AN cables and haven't ever thought about replacing that one cable from the wall outlet to the Hydra AV. Because it would be feeding everything but the mono blocks, it might be worth saving up for a Sogon cable for it. And...it would be much more flexible that the Shunyata! Has anyone out there tried the ISIS or Sogon in a similar situation?
Dust cover for TT3! Two versions of course This one is the over the whole table one
And this one sits on the table itself.
They really should put small cutouts at the bottom on the sides of those covers so you can lift them off easier.
Most definitely. Don't know about anyone else but I have sweaty palms, that and oily fingerprints happen
AN doesn't make it - they just provide the plans (measurements) and advise owners to have it made by a local company in your area. So then have them add some sort of handle to the top or on the sides.
Plans can be modified. I had mine custom made for a Nottingham TT and I specifically included the provision for them to add cutouts to the sides (fingers) and the back (cables). If I get some time later, I take a picture.
Well, I took pictures with my iPhone but I have no way of posting them to the site. It was still dark outside early this morning anyway, so the pictures weren't that great and a bit dark.
You might ask if they can still add cutouts without damaging the cover. The cutouts (total of 4) on the sides for my fingers and on the back for the tonearm cable and the PC measure 4" W x 2" H.
You may be able to get away with slightly smaller dimensions but those are mine. I like they way yours looks. I wish I had asked them if they could round-off the edges on mine but the cover performs the task for which it was intended.
I dont have an AN table but I do have a TD124 with a similar acrylic cover and I can't imagine having one that sits on the "plinth" (as in second photo) and not on the table around the table (first photo).
I'd pass on the logo on the cover too
That looks like the same way the logo is etched/machined in on the TT1 and TT2 turntables. I kind of like it as done on those.
Both of these turntables have the suspension incorrectly adjusted as the belt is not running along the centre line of the platter. Simple to correct and necessary.
This is a VERY interesting topic to me. I am currently playing with different power cables. On the same topic, happy to read that you are enamored with Shunyata cables. I have three of them in my system from the older Alpha line (the one with specialized cords for analog, digital, or high-current applications). I have one Alpha digital on my Mac mini, another one on my EMM labs CD player, and the third currently feeding my AN pre-amp. I am currently doing a comparison between The Shunyata Alpha Analog, Isis, Sogon, and Sooto. The Sogon and Soto are in loan. I invited a non-audiophile friend over for the first comparison between Isis and Sogon feeding my Paladin plugged straight into the wall. He was amazed by the difference. He made a brief recording on his phone (one for each cable) and is convinced that he could hear the differences even then. I trust his ears as non-audiophiles (having fewer biases) are often more perceptive than one would think. He certainly was. The differences were clear to me as well, but I am still very much struggling with the notion of spending THAT much in a power cord. Yet, I am contemplating.... will write a full report.
You won't contemplate long.
Look forward to your observations.
Beat me to it.....
Even so they do look pretty cool.
I have enjoyed my time with the Shunyata power cable. The model that I have is also from the Alpha series. It was their second most expensive model at about CDN $1700, if I remember correctly from three years ago or so.
As much as I like the Shunyata, there is a more natural sound from the system when using the AN ISIS power cables. Not quite the same bass impact or treble being noticed, but slightly more like a relaxed and real life resolution. I suspect that the ISIS isn’t quite as good overall, but it’s very close and tough to tell because of the different styles of sound from the two companies. More about which do you enjoy more.
This is why I am wondering about using a Sogon cable on the Shunyata Hydra AV power conditioner. The price difference from the ISIS is huge, so I would expect that it would gel more with the rest of my system as I have a Sogon cables throughout. But...I will have to hear it to decide for myself.
I do look forward to reading about your impressions. It’s part of the fun of this hobby - sharing what you like and don’t like. I would love to hear the Soottoo power cable in my system, just for the heck of it. Definitely above my budget!
Let us know what you think...
Masterclass in Audio with Peter Qvortrup
Thank you Richard for the link to a very interesting conversation with Peter Qvortrup. I was particularly amazed that he has a quite similar opinion/experiences that I have with old Western Electric gear and field coil drivers. I would love to see pictures of his 16A horn system in an apartment that he mentioned as part of his learning process; those are ENORMOUS horns. Just the midrange horn, is almost 6 ft. tall and are it is wider than that. I've heard two mono systems utilizing those horns, but I've not seen/heard a stereo setup.
I can imagine why it would take some time for Audio Note to develop their own field coil speaker system. Not even considering the challenge of making them sound right and figuring out how to manufacture such drivers, there are a host of practical issues to overcome. A proper power supply is as particular challenge The best I've heard out of field coil drivers involved tube-based power supplies that did not have voltage regulation. That meant some effort measuring and adjusting the power supply during each listening session. Audio Note gear seems to be designed to be "plug-and-play" simple--not even tube biasing is required of the owner. The Jensen M-10 driver is a magnificent sounding field coil driver that has a built in tube power supply that did not require fiddling with bias adjustment, so it is possible to design something operationally simple, but, I bet this is still a challenge.
I run a system with a Western Electric 713b compression driver. It is NOT a field coil driver. I have considered getting a Western Electric 597 tweeter, but, that IS a field coil driver that would probably add to the inconvenience factor too much for me (I once looked into getting an Audio Note M8 linestage, but nixed that idea because it did not have remote volume control (a must-have item for someone like me)).
I'm thinking of getting a Paladin amp for my SPx Alnico Speakers .
Any comments from users that have used this amp with any audio note speakers .
Did anyone upgrade the amp to Vindicator due to lack of power ?
Any comments from users and their experience are appreciated.
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