Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK..

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Richard Austen, Mar 19, 2015.

  1. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    I'd like to hear an answer to that too. I will say that on paper - the Vindicator is giving you roughly a 3dB increase over the Paladin - which is barely noticeable. In other words if the Vindicator has enough power for a speaker so will the Paladin. These are flea watt amps - on flea is slightly bigger than the other flea. But the SPx AlNiCo which I have I did not audition with the Paladin or Vindicator - I have only auditioned it with Empress Silver and Kegon and Quest. All have more than enough power. And again - on paper would give you roughly 6dB more than the Paladin. I didn't feel the Paladin was enough for the J/Lx at ~89.5dB (not in corners). Great sound but not enough especially if the room was larger or you like it loud.

    Still there was a certain kind of magic to the Paladin and I liked the sound quality more than the Vindicator (if I am being uber picky). Maybe Peter can make a Parallel Single Ended 45 to bump the power output to 3.5-4 watts.
     
  2. kessi

    kessi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Finland
    I feel that Paladin doesn't have enough grunt for Spx Alnicos. They are less sensitive then the HE models. I drive E Spx HE speakers with Paladin silver signature and for me it has just enough power to make me happy. But I need all 1,5W it gives. Great amp but I have my doubts it'll work loud enough with less sensitive speakers.
     
  3. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    Having read the manual again and thinking it over - it states 7 watt minimum amplifier power - regardless of the speaker sensitivity. The Paladin and Vindicator will drive them but I feel like these amps are mainly for people who buy 100dB+ horn speakers.

    I remember when I auditioned a Wyatech Labs 211 amp on B&W 801s - I thought - wow this is the first time B&W has actually sounded good. But the problem was you could not play it loud. And so while the quality was terrific at lowish level for the huge amount of money for the speakers and the amp - you really do want to be able to play rock at reasonable levels.

    I live in HK and so my room is not terribly big - but if I were living in Canada with my place there I would probably go for the Jinro Shochu or Tomei Kensai (yeah kind of a dream amp).

    You just don't want to be spending all this money and then being disappointed when you put some piece of music on and it runs out of headroom.

    I get the folks like the 2a3 and 45 but do try and give the P3 Silver Tonmeister a try - IMO it fixes the one thing 300Bs have lacked for me - it gives it dynamics and drive. I have only heard the Meishu but it had bags of dynamics and drive (unlike most 300Bs). And the P3 might be around the same price?? I don't know but it's worth checking out. It's not as nice looking though.
     
  4. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Yeah, I think the room determines it. If you look at the video of my room that I posted a couple of pages back in this thread, you can see all the slanted walls. They are basically sheets of drywall, 10 centimeters of insulation, and then the slate tiles of the roof. And the room is 38 sqm. That room sucks up sound, which means that my 300B Kit One struggles at times with my Alnicos. From what I've heard about it, a Tonmeister 300B would probably cut it but I don't think any of the flea-watt amps would, whereas in my previous listening room they just might. It was smaller and bc of neighbours I couldn't play as loud.
     
  5. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    In the end we're all going to the mighty 211 - it's just a matter of time - and how much you can get for a Kidney :)
     
  6. billb51

    billb51 Active Member

    Location:
    Hudson NH
    RGA, Kessi , Encore,

    Thank you for the input.
    Not what I was hoping to hear.

    Wow , 7 watts min power !
    For now I'll concentrate on cables and interconnects .

    Be safe and healthy,

    Bill
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020 at 10:42 AM
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  7. billb51

    billb51 Active Member

    Location:
    Hudson NH
    Kessi , were your speakers Alnico's ?

    What size is your room and how loud is not loud enough ?

    My room is 11.5ft x 18.5ft speakers are in the corners and I play some classical lp's and rock with peaks to 90 db

    Do you have other amps ?

    Bill
     
  8. tifoso48

    tifoso48 Forum Resident

    ]Audio Note UK TT3 turntable system Review

    Audio Note UK TT3 turntable system Review [/QUOTE]

    My adventure with my new TT3

    I simply could not resist the vinyl rabbit hole and true to the motto " you only live once" decided to buy a TT3 which would be a fabulous companion to my AN E Signature and Audionote OTO SE Phono.

    I was fortunate to acquire a "demonstrator" and not being terribly handy I needed and got help setting it up and it really sounded fantastic.

    There was just one problem and one that was immensely frustrating and almost spoiled the entire experience.

    OFF THE CHART - S T A T I C

    I do not mean a bit of static that sometimes happens when you play a record - no, what I am describing only happened when I removed the record after playin g

    When, removing the record, the static was incredibly loud and strong that you could the waves of energy actually hitting your hand and arms, it literally was " hair raising".

    This energy was so real that it sent my VTF measurement devices into a total tizzy rendering their measurements useless.

    For example, prior to playing a record it was at the desired 1.90 gr after the first 1/2 it went up to 2.90 and after a couple of records it hit well over 3.30.

    Then within 1 1/2 hours of not playing it went back to its normal 1.90.

    Of course I discussed this with a lot of folks and I got the usually helpful hints like : are you sure the counterweight is secure, are your records clean, are you keeping your records in static free inner linings, etc, etc and of course the answer was yes, yes and yes.

    To make a long story short, the actual culprit was the platter itself.

    Of course it travelled from the UK to the dealer, was in the dealer's showroom for many months, and then travelled to me. So lot's of time to acquire dust and dirt.
    And of course during operation all that dust gets " charged up" during operation of the TT.
    Making it a bit tougher to notice is that the platter is white and none of this shows up.

    So one morning I woke up with the right idea, took to the platter off the player and gave it a really good cleaning with mild detergent water, rinsed it thoroughly, dried it an put it back.

    All static was gone, and the VTF readings are no longer varying with use.

    Most importantly, my blood pressure went back to normal and I can now focus on the important business of enjoying this magnificent table.
     
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  9. kessi

    kessi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Finland
    Hi Bill, my listening space is about 16m2 + an open concept kitchen and hallway. I don't have good equipment to measure the exact volume levels but with iPhone app to sweet spot it's usually around 80db and peaks about 85. My speakers are E-Spe HE but ordered them with factory installed Spx internal wiring. No other amps are used but I have tested quest silver monoblocks, Soro and owned Oto sig in the past.

    Kessi
     
  10. Encore

    Encore Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    I use both my iPad and my phone to measure sound levels, and they correspond rather well, so I assume that their measurements are not way off. I would say that most of the time I have peaks at 80 dB, and 85 dB when I play loud. I don’t recall having hit 90 dB, at least not while measuring.
     
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  11. slcaudiophile

    slcaudiophile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    the best interconnects they make (less any of the new Pallas) and the entry level. it’s a fun pic! :)

    [​IMG]
     
  12. slcaudiophile

    slcaudiophile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    We need some more 211 love around here.

    The breathtaking JINRO fitted with 4242Es.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Larry I

    Larry I Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I suppose the "best" tube is both a matter of personal taste, system synergy, and the specific amplifier implementation. Still, I am surprised how often I identify a specific tube as sounding very good in a wide array of applications. Among the low powered directly heated triodes, I tend to like the 45 the most; it might be a bit weak on power, but, it has deep, tight bass, reasonable top end extension and it doesn't have the overblown upper bass/lower midrange of the 300b and it has more punchy dynamics than the 300b. I like the 2a3 too, but, it can be a bit lean and analytical in some applications (I own a Kageki so it obviously is not so severe an issue). Of the higher output triodes, like the 211 and 845, I like some of the amps I've heard using these tubes (Audio Note Gaku-On and Wyetech amp in particular), but the smaller tubes are better if power is not an issue.

    I like some other non-triode tubes as well, like 6L6, 350 (slightly higher powered Western Electric version of 6L6) and in particular, I like the Western Electric 349.

    My Kageki is currently in the hands of a friend. I have given him permission to convert it into a parallel 45 amplifier. I've heard the Kageki running 45s (short tube life because it is being overdriven) and liked the sound, so I am hoping it will sound really good with operating parameters set more in line with running 45s.
     
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  14. slcaudiophile

    slcaudiophile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    some more cool AN pics of a great sounding combo :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. ghasley

    ghasley Forum Resident

    Absolutely lovely photos from one of the good guys in the audio biz. Keep it up SLCAudiophile, the hobby needs more like you!
     
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  16. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Is that Jinro soon to be your Jinro? :angel::angel::angel::angel:
     
  17. ghasley

    ghasley Forum Resident

    Hi Don, I wish LOL! I’m a little amplifier wealthy and cash poor right now but who knows. I can, however, attest to Tyson’s never ending patience and sage advice. Hope you are well.
     
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  18. Jellis77

    Jellis77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brighton
    I borrowed a Jinro for a few weeks a couple of years ago. It was so painful to part when it went back. Just a simply beautiful music machine. I still miss it - maybe one day
     
  19. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong

    There is a dealer and repair facility in NY called HEAR
    1401 Ocean Avenue, Suite LH,
    Brooklyn, New York
    11230, USA
    Tel: 718-377-8010

    They don't update their site too often but generally a lot of the owners will let you audition their systems. Because they make so many products there is little chance the dealer will actually carry the thing you want to listen to. They make 17 versions of the AN E Speaker, ~12 versions of the AN J - 4 versions of the AN K. They currently have 8 integrated amplifiers and one of those - the OTO they have 8 versions of this amp. They make 9 preamplifiers - the M6 Phono Balanced that I have ordered is 1 of 6 versions of the preamp and they don't list the two box versions which are special orders - so probably another 2-4 more versions of it.
    They make 10 different Stereo power amplifiers usually 3 versions of each and they make 14 different monoblock amplifiers with up to 6 versions of each.

    Even a large dealer at best will carry 2-3 versions of each of the speakers. The Hong Kong dealer basically offloads to a second, third and fourth dealer - so one place sells the Zero-level 2 - one handles level 5-6, one handles 3-4 and the main dealer (the only one actually listed on AN's website) has the better showroom and a mix of gear.

    The best way IME has been to go to people's homes to audition gear because in general they have a dedicated space - indeed, my dealer Soundhounds put me in touch with their customers and they allowed me into their homes to audition stuff the store did not have (this is true for non AN gear as well) I went and auditioned Odyssey amplifiers, Totems, Gershman Acoustics, Celeste, Sim Audio, Magnepan, Apogee, DIY kits etc and a lot of other gear over the years.

    I see even recently hear with a fellow trying to decide between a Paladin and Vindicator - these are 2 watt 45 amps and 3.5 watt 2a3 amps. It is unlikely that most dealers will carry one of these let alone 2 because they are generally made for people who won't buy AN speakers because the speakers are borderline sensitive enough with these speakers. So unless the dealer is big on carrying 100dB+ horns then the dealer won't carry these amps.

    You are better off simply trying to find owners on the strictly for audio note thread here who will let you listen. Audio Note simply has too many products in the catalog to be able to make them fast enough to supply a global market IMO. The dealer here in Hong Kong is the biggest in the world and even they have limited selections. It's not like most companies who will open a plant - and make 50 loudspeakers a day or whatever and just build and build and build. Let's use the B&W 805 as an example. B&W will mass produce bucket loads of these $6,000 speakers and they offer three colours (one additional colour is $1,000 more). Otherwise you get White, Black or Red. They have done their homework and probably know which colour is most popular (let's say black) so each dealer will get a shipment let's say of 7 black, 2 red and one white.

    You can go in and listen to the black model in the store and you can walk out today with that option. If you put yourself in the dealer's shoes - this is a dream product - it is always well reviewed - such and such recording studio has them - they're very very stylish if you like modern - the finish is great too and he they recreate music - they're not bad so hey.

    Or you sell Audio Note. A dumpy looking rectangle from the 70s. Nicely finished but in no way "stylish" and in no way "modern" - no bulletproof woofers or Diamonds or even rubber surrounds (Foam my word). Measurements are ok but not exactly terrific. The only way those speakers will convince you is to listen to them.

    So you listen to say the AN J/SPe which is maybe a little bit MORE than the B&W 805. You decide you like them more - and you say - hey can I have it in that Reddish Rosewood like the B&W? Sure you can but you have to pay me the $6,500 now and in 3 months you can have your speaker. LOL - sorry but if you're a dealer you don't want the hassle - especially when the 3 months come and go and the speakers aren't ready - it will be 2 more months.

    My Dealer in Canada, Soundhounds, could put up with this (but they also sold Harbeth and B&W and Dynadio and Sonus Faber, Magnepan and Kef etc because at the end of the day - you want speakers to sell that have no waiting lists and you can get them out the door today. All of this is to say you have to really like it above other things to put up with it. That includes the dealers.

    It's just easier to stick with some of the mainstream companies. But I like the sound of the AN K, AN J, and AN E more than what I have heard from the competition at considerably higher price points so it is worth the wait for me. (granted I tend to just buy the demo model because I don't care that much about the colour - if it is reasonable looking it's okay by me.
     
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  20. Don Parkhurst

    Don Parkhurst Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    So, are you talking about the amplifier/speaker/DAC or the owner? :D:D:D:D
     
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  21. Richard Austen

    Richard Austen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Hong Kong

    Well "I" like the look of them - I mainly mean most people are into sexy curves and modern looking new age futuristic stuff like those apple watches and the like. It's a tougher sell to sell a rectangle box. The beautiful finishes help but the world seems to like B&W more - they are the biggest seller of what counts for hi-fi speakers.

    I placed the reply here because it was way off topic in a different thread.

    Way back in the early 2000s I went to Soundhounds set to buy an 805 but it was the AN K that beat it. I remember talking to Terry and said How does an ugly box from a no name company beat the 805 so easily. And his reply was "Good sound looks like Audio Note"

    So I wound up with my I want my women slim and sexy but I like my speakers fat and ugly. The uglier it is the better it has to be because no one is bringing ugly into their house without some major redeeming qualities :)

    Heck my 2a3 amps do not even light up! So you better damn will like 2a3 sound because you aren't getting any tube glow.
     
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  22. Melody50

    Melody50 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Thailand
    Can someone guide what is the procedure to bias the tubes in Audio Otto SE?
     
  23. Subagent

    Subagent All I know is What I Read in the Liner Notes

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    It is self-biasing (auto-biasing?).
     
  24. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Cool pic! Which version AN-Es are those?
     
  25. slcaudiophile

    slcaudiophile Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    hey Joe!

    those are the E SEC Silvers.

    i actually have five different E speakers here at the moment. :). it’s fun for sure.
     
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