Strictly for fans of Audio Note UK (all things Audio Note UK)

The M2 pre has a different volume control to the M3 and the attenuation curves are different so each unit has to be looked at separately. If you don't want the controls past 12/1 o'clock then the M2/ low gain would work well as the M2/ standard gain would have you not going past 10 o'clock. The M3/ low gain would have you running at 2/2.30 and the M3/ standard gain would fit the brief of 12/1 o'clock usage. The low gain/ high gain circuit is essentially identical just using some component value changes in resistors and using a 6J5 tube which is really just a half gain 6SN7. Nearly all of my sales for these types of amps are low gain just out of wanting more flexibility in the volumes to be played at.

 

Ultimately this is of course all very subjective isn’t it? I always advise, where possible to audition the full system in advance. Having only had the agency a short while I cannot attest to all permutations.

 

I did run the M3 into my LM 219IA 24 watt SET (845) as well. SETs have more noise than PP or SS and I am willing to accept a bit of noise - just needs to be less intrusive.

 

does audio note make any electronics that would mate well with my jbl 4367?

 

Why not? Those are fairly easy to drive. I find everything sounds better with a SET regardless of the sensitivity - it's just a limitation on the volume level. But yours are around 95dB sensitive so unless they have really low impedance (don't think so) SETs should be comfortable driving them - maybe the ones 7 watts and above.

 

They drop to 4.2ohms in the lower bass region

 

The AN E drops to 3.9 ohms. So your JBL may in fact be easier to drive.

 

I like a Volume pot you can turn all the way - to 5pm! I mean what's the point of having all those resistors if you can only get 4 clicks?

As the tech suspected - the preamp is quiet - he tried a resistor which did work for the gain but not the noise. The tech is quite a nice guy and was a repair tech for all manner of Sony for 21 years - he repaired all the TV brands and noted that Sony has a superior interior system to other televisions. I mentioned my mom's 15 year olds 40 inch TV still works perfectly.

He was damn sure impressed by my KingKo amplifier at $800 He was taking pictures and quite liked the sound of it. He is thinking of getting one now! LOL. Audiophiles on a budget will be hard pressed to do better.

So now I am waiting on the dealer to figure out what's next - I suspect the low gain version. I don't see the Vindicator or Paladin or Quest or Jinro being any quieter unless they have less gain.

So the question is can the regular Empress Silver be converted with a few solders or is it an entirely different amplifier? I know the Low gain uses a different input tube.

 

Well Peter is right IMO - the Sound Quality stone cold out of the box made me pick my jaw up off the ground - but it's this damn in between track resting state that is just a tick too high for me - maybe just 3dB too loud.

Even taking Stereophile's 92.5dB figure - that is one speaker free standing - add 3dB for the second speaker and 3dB for the corner min and 98.5dB is higher than a lot of horn speakers.

Donald North who uses Audio Note transformers in his best 2a3 headphone amps doesn't want me to give up on 2a3.

The noise doesn't have to be zero - I expect a bit - but if the low gain drops the noise a few dB without a hit to the sound quality then it's such a wonderful sound.

 

Simple answer is no. The rebuild would be involving both time and components. I do a lot of rebuilds and it still takes more than what you think.

 

Budget is $15k but could spend more on an integrated. What one should I beeline for a home audition?

 

So basically it is a different amplifier - the problem is I can't really order it until I hear it first and the dealer doesn't stock the LG version.

I am not an engineer but it seems to me that noise of these SET amps are correlated (in whole or in part) by the the power amplifier's input sensitivity.

I had a look at a bunch of their manuals and the Empress amps are 115mV while the low gain version is a whopping 2.7V So if noise is related to Input sensitivity the Empress is the noisiest amplifier that Audio Note manufacturers.

The Jinro and Quest are 450mV

The Conquest, Conqueror, Paladin, and 3.5 watt 2a3 Vindicator are all 250mV and interestingly the Neiro (which is also 2a3 parallel and 8 watts).

The P1 SE which is the power section of the OTO is 430mV. The OTO is listed at 300mV so to be about as quiet as the OTO all these other amps should be fine. Just the Empress seems to stick out.

 

Answer me Richard!

 

That’s interesting about the Empress. I know an older iteration of the Quest had an input sensitivity of 250mV, but not sure when the change was made to 450mV. I think mine are probably the 250mV version, and as I mentioned the Rothwell attenuators killed the background noise. My M2 is newer than the Quests but does not have the current attenuators.

 

Jinro but you will need more money. Second hand you could

 

I mentioned in a post at the top of this page that the M2 has conventional conductive film attenuator, the M3 is the first pre that uses the new style units. Richard would either be potentially happier if he upgraded his pre with the new attenuators and continued to use the current loan Empress Silvers or wait for a pair of the low gain versions to become available. There is no loss of dynamics with the low gain version and he would be very surprised how good a quality 6J5 tube can sound into the 95db efficient, when corner loaded ,AN-E SPx Alnico's.

 

But I think upgrading to the new attenuators likely won’t do much for the background noise as the noise is introduced downstream of the attenuators (Richard said it doesn’t change with volume), right? In which case I think the only way he can reduce that noise is with the low gain Empress, or with something like the little in-line attenuators that I mentioned in the interim.

 

Yes I think you were correct way back and that the issue is definitely with the Empress - the repair tech said the same thing - the preamp is quiet and when I run the KingKo as power I have more range - I can get the volume up to 10 o'clock.

I think the Rothwell is one solution but I think the Input sensitivity is the culprit - it is less than half of any other AN power amp.

The low gain version of the power amp would mean the 24 step attenuators would be more than fine.

 

Too bad the new attenuators sound considerably better than the older style ones and you are correct in thinking the low gain versions will work well with the pre in its current state of componentry.

 

I suspect you are right - I will have to talk to Audio Note about the LG gain version - I have been going back and forth with the Kingko but the Empress is just in another league. There is greater depth and bass - treble already mentioned. Tone/overtone. Even compressed pop sounds "special" in that you get the sense that these recordings are a lot better than they get credit for. Turning the digital to nearly non digital - I see nearly. I mean it can't change physics.

Put it this way - even with the low level noise - I'd still rather listen to these than any other amp I've owned/own or had through my house.

 

A few days ago I suggested you try shorting plugs on the Empress inputs to determine—conclusively—-whether the noise is from the linestage circuitry or is inherent in your amps. Since you haven’t mentioned trying that, I am guessing you don’t have any shorting plugs. If that’s the case, here’s an alternative: with all your regular cables attached, leave your preamp turned off when you turn on the Empress amps. If the noise is still there it is due to the amps; if it is reduced the preamp is responsible.

If the Empress amps are the cause, I would try swapping input tubes in the Empress amps before giving up on the high gain version. If the preamp is responsible, I would try swapping tubes in the linestage circuitry. Different tubes can have different noise levels even though they look and test identical to each other.

There is nothing inherently noisy about a high gain power amp. The inherent noise level of a power amp depends on the particular tubes and the circuit design. The two amps I have owned that have the highest input sensitivity (both in the .2 to .25v for full output) are also the quietest amps I have ever used, as in zero noise when the inputs are shorted. As I have said before, the matching problem with high-sensitivity power amps is finding a suitably quiet linestage because the amps greatly exaggerate any low-level noise in an active linestage.

 

It would help to know where you're located?

 

Canada.

 

Audio Note

Scroll down to Canada not sure where you live but there are dealers in:

Victoria
Ottawa
Edmonton
Thornhill

 

I hadn't thought to just turn on the power amps. The most obvious solution is the one I naturally skip. The advice on tubes is great but I simply have no tubes.

Basically I just wanted a level 3 power amp of any kind so that I could properly review the M3. So I don't own any of the tube types. Nor have I any for the M3 as I need to review the stock version of a product. I can certainly see if the dealer has other tubes on hand. But first I will try your suggestion.

Still I enjoyed a 5 hour listening session last night to the chagrin of my neighbors playing at higher the normal levels.

If the tube is the culprit that would be funny. I did try each monoblock one by one though and the noise is there from both channels so it is a bit less likely the tube is the culprit because it would mean the tubes in both amps are problematic. There is no hum. It's just a low level static noise like thise old TVs that go off the air. The noise does not go up with volume. And when you turn the power amps on. There is no noise for the first few seconds until the tubes get going.

I think I will get it resolved. It's not that big of a thing to be honest as I could play it all night and it was fine. But it's there. I will try and visit the dealer tomorrow and if they have a Jinro I will try and lusten very close to that amplifier again.

I'm a bit less picky to be honest. 211 is my favorite and 2a3 is my favorite value. I can't buy any of these for at least 6 months. Until my contract bonus comes through in July.

So I have time to think about the combination. M3 and power amp or Jinro with phono stage.

It is interesting that most AN owners and dealers definitely seem to have their preferences between these output tubes. 2a3 is king, no 211 is king. 300b...crickets lol.