Stylus and record wear (again)

Exactly.

 

Bouncing around in the groove is going to nick it up more than running a cartridge at the top end of the recommended VTF range of a cartridge. None of the modern cartridges we are using are tracking heavy enough to really carve in if held firmly in the groove by adequate VTF. Too little VTF, you get the stylus coming off of the groove wall more, and when it lands, potential damage.

 

I recently bought an AudioTechnica cart. They say 300 hrs for a conical or elliptical. See above!

 

Yes and Audio Technica have developed the cartridge that the thread starter has to track the best or to put it in a other way. That is not "Bouncing around" at 1.4g. We do not need to make the thread starter unnecessary worried.
Especially when he states that he is little OCD about it.

 

I would assume/hope the OP has resolved this at some point in the past 11 months. And I’m not trying to say a cartridge designed for 1.4g VTF will be a problem at that VTF. What I am saying is a cartridge designed for a 1.4g VTF is not necessarily going to be easier on the grooves than a cartridge designed to track at up to 2.5g. It seemed like your original point was that the lighter-tracking cartridge would cause less wear simply because it tracks lighter. Maybe I read you wrong.

 

I went from a 100e up one notch to the 120eb nude elliptical (fits on the 100e body). It was a large upgrade in sound. Just FYI. 120eb stylus' are still available for $70 or so at LP Gear. The current model is the 530en but twice the price!

 

Just play it on a Crosley.
.

 

I’d be very interested to see how many plays it would take on a stock Crosley. I always thought the conventional wisdom on this was BS.

Audiophile groupthink

 

IIRC, someone actually tested this (I think there's a YouTube video), and found that, yes, Crosleys do actually damage records after not too long.

Tens shocked, eh?
.

 

Again, what record?
Play the crescendo parts of some of my Classic Records releases a few dozen times and youre gonna hear permanent distortion in the grooves Im sure.
Play a steady 1000hz tone then it will take many more plays to hear much difference.

 

This the one youre thinking of?:



There are more videos on it but I wouldnt take any of them as a definitive answer even as I am against Crosleys from a record preservation standpoint.
There simply isnt much standard between videos and people get different results.

 

All that thread is full of information. If you are focusing on the only one post which is "I recall in a magazine whose name I don't remember a mysterious guy spreading around this evident BS of 60-100 plays against 48,000" you deserve all the mind troubles you are getting from your OCD

 

The difference being is that these Crosley type players are built so horribly and inconsistently straight from the factories that there are variable levels of wear and tear on the records due to tracking force being all over the place or even cartridges with bent cantilevers or stylus. You can get one that does cause groove wear and damage on 50 plays and others on even lesser than that.

On a proper turntable with a conventional adjustable counterweight (not the fake ones from ION, Jensen and other brands) and a stylus in good shape, the amount of damage will obviously be much, much lesser than those abominations.

 

Conversations I've had with ppl on this:

Them: There's no definitive proof that Crosleys hurt records.
Me: Oh, so you use a Crosley?
Them: No.
Me: Oh, so you're going to switch to one in the future?
Them: Oh, God no.
Me: .....
.

 

Or people who downplay the fact that these Crosleys are bad with respect to sound quality and being more harmful to records. Their so-called "tests" and "observations" has a size sample of just ONE.

 

I just don’t even understand the defense of Crosley. They don’t even seem to be marketed as real turntables, so I don’t see how it could be so hard to just disregard them as legitimate options. Even if one does not buy the idea that it’s going to damage records, why bother arguing in their favor?

I don’t know if Crosleys damage records. I don’t care. They’re crappy turntables either way.

 

I think for needle makers this would be a fine place to look for information.

 

These are some of the reasons, but there are even more factors between test videos like different records used and more unknown ones.

 

Actually the ones I have seen correctly measured have been pretty consistently within the recommended range for the cartridge they use (4 to 6 grams). What is not so consistent is people's knowledge of how to correctly measure a spring-counterbalanced tonearm, which many "Crosley-type" players use. You need to measure it with the tonearm at the same height as the surface of a record or else you will get an inaccurate reading.

And of course some people might just be exaggerating or repeating uncomfirmed rumors they've heard as it they were fact. For example I have seem some totally bogus claims of them tracking at 9 or 10 grams, which is physically impossible because even if you completely remove the counterbalance spring so that the entire weight of the tonearm is bearing down on the stylus, according to my tests the tracking force will max out at about 7½ grams.

Are you so sure? For example, in their advertisements, ADC admitted that with their high-end cartridge that tracks at only 1¼ grams, perceivable wear begins after 60 plays -- although they dismissed it because most people only play their records a maximum of 40 to 50 times. So if the Crosley-type player in the video posted above hasn't ground the vinyl into dust after 100 plays, then I think it's not doing too bad...

 

Is this a nice TT?

Audio Grade Solid MDF Plinth
Genuine Zebrano Wood Veneer
11 3/4” Solid Acrylic Platter
Bulit-In Phono Stage with USB Output
Plays 2 Speeds – 33 1/3 and 45 RPM Records
S Shaped Aluminum Tonearm with Sapphire Bearings
Belt Driven Turnable Mechanism
Manual Return Tone Arm
Anti Skate Adjustment
Adjustable Tone Arm Weight
Ortofon OM10 Cartridge, Pre- Mounted
Special turntable feet for effective vibration control
Clear Removable Dust Cover

I believe that many should not have anything against to own this beautiful TT?

It is $510 for this great TT. But if you want a new fully working and complete TT but you of some reason only want to spend in total $80. That will give you a Crosley "coupe".

Will you then get the same performance for $80 as for the $510 TT above? Of course not! Because you only payed $80 bucks for your new TT..

So I do not know why people spread the dislike of a brand like Crosley. It is a pity that I feel that Crosley is equal to something bad.
You get what you pay for. Or?

Try to sell a TT for $80 bucks that also can do one thing more than the $510 TT can not.
It will also play 78 rpm discs!

But guess what.. the great $510 TT is also a Crosley..

 

More like a Pro-Ject, but good point, companies often have a range of products.

 

Crosley sells a wide range of record players and turntables -- perhaps the widest range of any brand name today. And for the past half-decade or so, their product line has been consistently moving more upscale, with several models (such as the C20 shown above) that are rebadged Pro-Ject turntables.

In fact, they're not even the best-selling brand of cheap record players anymore -- that's now Victrola, a brand name currently owned by a company called Innovative Technology. Last year, they sold over 4 million record players, and you see them in almost every big-box store.

 

Crosley bashing is a signaling ritual between audiophiles. A way of asserting ones status.

Kind of like when dogs sniff each others butts.

 

I just play the records...

 

What??? You mean you don't lose sleep obsessing about your records possibly degrading slightly after 50 or 60 plays? What's wrong with you???