Stylus profile and non-fill on vinyl?

I played a record on one of my friend's cartridge (XV-1s, line contact that I imagine is very high quality) and there was pretty much no evidence of non-fill at all. I know this record had quite a bit of it at louder levels since it was readily apparent on my Sound-Smith Otello (elliptical) though this cartridge is also the most revealing cartridge I'd ever had as far as any sort of surface noise/tics went, though not quite at Ortofon Black levels.

 

Will give this one bump in case non morning people didn't see it I'm still sort of perplexed by this and I don't think I've read anything similar in the various non-fill threads in the music subforum.

 

It could be that the Microline profile is missing the part of the groove affected by the non-fill. Rides lower in the groove.

 

It has happened to me too. I have a record that plays fine with a Dynavector 20x2 and has audible non-fill with a Dynavector 10x5 and also Goldring 1042.

Funny that, as the Goldring is a Gyger S which is similar to line contact.

 

I have experienced this too. Non-fill was audible with my Dynavector 10x5 on one particular record, but not after I replaced it with a 20x2H.

 

What does non fill sound like?

 

Shsshshshshshshsh

 

Like audible when music is playing? Or between tracks? Im not sure I have heard it. Trying to figure out if I have any I can hear it on.

 

Yes, very audible when music is playing if the non-fill grooves happen to be the ones with music. There are some samples in YouTube. Those are defective records so it won't be a surprise if you have none.

 

I just searched on YouTube and online, I've found mentions of the sounds but I can't find an audio or video clip of it.
Forgive my ignorance can someone link me to an example or share a clip? I definitely have my share of defective records but this is not ringing a bell for me. Thank you guys!!

 

Non-fill can sound like a zipper or tearing paper.

I've noticed that the audibility of non-fill is lessened with my current cart (a Lyra Kleos) which tracks lower in the groove than my previous cart (an Ortofon 2M Black).

 

Good to know my hearing wasn't just broken that day

Doesn't the Black have one of the narrowest/sharpest styli?

 

Not when compared to good moving coil cartridges.

 

My dealer did advice to go for the Bronze (which I did), because it was easier than the Black.
Probably he meant issues like these.

 

I have never experienced non fill. Didnt even know of it until recently due to this great forum. Is it a common problem? Are certain records more likely to suffer?

 

Id think that Shshshshshsh is very different than a zipper sound. Never heard a clip of non fill either.

Can someone just make a clip and see if people agree on it being non fill or not?

 

It’s not that common, but is more likely to occur on 180/200 gm LPs due to heat, time, and vinyl flow during pressing, which is why it tends to affect outer grooves.

John K

 

Interesting this is the first time I heard this term. Would love to hear some clips of non-fill to help to be able to recognize it.

 

I don’t have the proper setup to record at the moment, but it’s very obvious. Be grateful if you have never heard it, as that means you’ve probably not encountered the issue or it’s easily ignorable. As posted above “ripping” is the best description, the sound usually follows the rotation of the record with rhythmic regularity. The distortion is as obvious as radio static. Persistent “shhh” sounds are surface noise which is inherent to all vinyl.

If it “rips” audibly it will be visible as well, here’s a good shot from Analog Planet. This is an extreme example however, as it can effect a much smaller area.

 

It happens on dynamic portions of music, I was hearing it on at least in the range of 20% of Music Matters vinyl. I had a subscription to the 45s (bought most of the 33s) and returned a lot of them.

 

Ok so the shshshshhhh description is wrong?

See this is why we need a consensus on a clip or no one will understand what it is.

 

This is the first time that I have heard of this term also.

This is What "Non-Fill" Looks Like

Michael Fremer tells us about it and shows us a photo on Analog Planet.



The big black wave in the upper right, the bright white light and other dark splotches, I believe are reflections.

The white dots, visible above the white reflection, seem to be the "pearls", or defects that they are talking about.

 

Ive seen the picture before, but I also have records that have that pearl like glimmer in some grooves but they play dead silent still, didnt make me the wiser.

 

I am sixty four, been playing records my whole life and this is my first time hearing about this. If I have any records that are affected with this, I have no knowledge of having them.

Should I happen to hear a "zipping" sound or see "pearls", now I might identify them.

Otherwise, I will go on with my life.

 

I have 1 or 2 counterfeit albums that have a defect in them where my right speaker sounds like it has a fly in it on some songs, buzzing around. So maybe thats non fill, I dunno.