Yeah, even with all I wrote about the Return to Paradise video, I forgot to mention how Sucherman really helped drive the band on that, bringing great kinetic energy and dexterity.
While There’s Still Time I have that A&M Assorted Chews sampler. “While There’s Still Time” on the sampler is different than the BNW version but not by a whole lot. Runs the same exact time also. Promo cd lacks little background stuff or little guitar parts that the BNW version has. I hear synths or keys and maybe a tad bit of accordion on the BNW version. Missing on the promo cd is the the synth crescendo after DDY sings “Baby you’ll cry” and the same synth that carries on in the background is mostly missing. The guitar fill after the first verse or chorus that DDY and Tommy sing together, “While There’s Still Time…” is missing from the promo cd. Tommy is mixed more upfront also and you can clearly hear him singing that with Dennis. This isn’t listening with headphones either. TS is buried more on in all the choruses on BNW. He might not even be there at all, not sure. I think DDY tracked more vocals on the choruses. He did when he sings “and never again have to say how much I’m missing you…” that part has a much bigger soundstage on BNW with more layered vocals. Tommy might be on that part on the promo CD. Hard to tell with my system right now. It’s in flux! Promo CD at around the 2:19 mark just before DDY and TS trade off vocals there is a tapping of the drum stick or something through the rest of the song. That is missing from BNW and the shakers are more up front instead of that. Promo CD has the shakers coming in right before DDY sings “If I Could Stop The Dawn…” and they continue throughout the song. Promo CD is missing most of the echo on DDYs vocals the last time he sings …”Time…” Anyway that’s a very high level analysis between the 2 versions from what I hear anyway. I really like this song, even the Hunchback version, and I’m glad I have both versions even if they are not that different. Paradise “Paradise” was my wedding song when I got married in ‘98. That should tell you all how I feel about that song.
Thanks @PTgraphics it's hard to believe it has been over 25 years since I heard the original version! I just remember there wasn't a whole lot of difference to the GH version and the BNW version. Lattes & scone for everybody! Yep, it is in fact Tommy.
I know you are the resident Styx fan. Did you know that around 1996 the whole A&M catalog was remastered for CD release but for some reason it was shelved. Styx is one of the only bands to not have it's catalog remastered. I spoke with Bill Levinson back in 96 and he couldn't give me a reason why the remastered catalog was never released. 1996 would have been a great time to release remasters since Styx was back together and on tour. Sorry to go off topic I'm just frustrated that Styx didn't get a proper remastering of their A&M catalog.
Another slightly off-topic post: Just noticed a the Tommy Shaw released a cover version of Led Zeppelin's Going To California, last year. I'm not keen on Zep's original. Sounds like a bad pastiche of The Incredible String Band, but miraculously, Tommy makes it sound palatable enough. Not able to post it, annoyingly. Worth a listen though, if you've got a spare five minutes.
@Scottb yeah I don't know what is up with that. it isn't like they just remastered certain tracks for 2 Greatest Hits releases. The whole catalog was remastered and there were plans at one time to reissue them all. I mean they did remaster and reissue the Wooden Nickel albums. And the vinyl box set was also remastered. I was never able to get a straight answer from anyone either. I had a contact at Universal and he was the one that informed me about the Grand Illusion Deluxe CD. Then all of the sudden it was off the agenda. When I asked him why he did not know. Same goes for the remastered back catalog. No one knows.
Yes it remains a mystery why this wasn't released. I agree with you as they remastered the Wooden Nickel albums and put them in a 2 CD set yet the much better and 100 times more popular the A&M catalog wasn't remastered. I had someone find me all the Japan 2016 remasters and they actually sound very good.
This one might be lengthy but I'm trying to kind of cover the albums and "everything Styx" from the time period... so here we go From my personal collection; Greatest Hits [Canadian CD] Greatest Hits [2002 Japanese CD] It Takes Love [Promo] Little Suzie [Promo] Greatest Hits Pt.2 [Club CD] The Best Of Times: The Best Of Styx [Euro version of GH] On My Way [Promo] Dear John/Rockin' The Paradise [Promo] Return To Paradise CD [Autographed by Dennis] Return To Paradise DVD [2nd copy.. played the first so much it got a crack in it] Next we'll get into the news that was going on at the time; 1996 June 9 - Tommy Shaw Interview - Hartford Courant "I don't think it should have happened until now." (in regards to a reunion) July 4 - "Styx and Groans" - Miami New Times The article incorrectly states "In 1990 the band reunited, with drummer Glen Burtnick replacing John Panozzo" July 16 - Notice of John Panozzo's death - UPI Jul 26 - Kansas, Styx Again Get The Big Bookings - Deseret News 1997 June 22 - Styx Regrouping: 'Paradise' Found Tommy divulges that Styx signed a five-album deal with CMC and a new album would be recorded 'next year' Dec 12 - This one is kind of interesting It's about the Canadian band Barenaked Ladies but mentioned in the article is how they would cover Mr. Roboto Feb 18 1998 - Nation's Rappers Down To Last Two Samples An article from The Onion (satire) in 1998 which of all band members to pick, they "quote" Chuck Here's a PDF I found which details Styx history, including quotes from band members up to 1998/1999 Finally check out some of the stuff on this site... talking about things like remastered albums coming in 1999 (including the expanded Grand Illusion) I don't exactly know what it was that got me into Styx but two things I clearly remember being excited about with my new fandom at the time are an SNL skit and South Park. First was the SNL skit (I think I watched it live) from December 6, 1997 - Will Farrel as Dennis DeYoung hawking a compilation album entitled "Songs That Ruined Everything" For some reason I'm recalling being told (or I'm really good at making up stories!) that Dennis was crushed when he saw this. His dad passed away that day and he put on SNL for some emotional relief.... only to see a skit where he, his band and his music were mocked. I do think it's pretty hilarious - as it hammers on plenty of other bands and really isn't *that* mean spirited. Next would be in April of 1998 when in an episode of South Park, Cartman couldn't stop singing Come Sail Away... I'm not sure if I saw it on the air date, as we were usually behind the U.S. airings by a week or two back then. In the summer of 1998 I found Greatest Hits on an 'internet jukebox' and listened to it multiple times a day in what was probably 128kbps or lower quality but it was enough to build my enthusiasm for their body of work. On August 8, 1998 (still have the receipt!) - I purchased the Hits CD and was BLOWN AWAY compared to that crappy internet jukebox, it was like the songs were new all over again and ever since, I've been a Styx superfan. Return To Paradise - I first saw from a PBS telethon in spring 1999 (they had apparently gotten the rights to it for 2 years!) I'll touch on the new songs and give my overall feelings towards the live versions on RTP. Lady '95 When I first heard this song, I'd yet to hear the original. Loved it! It was also exciting to know that this band who had been on such a long hiatus was apparently coming back Funny enough, when I finally heard the original, I didn't really find it appealing. But it's grown on me and I have a fair appreciation for both. Little Suzie I can recall being a bit confused by this song as it was really nothing like I'd ever heard from Styx before. I did also think "that isn't John Panozzo on drums". Heh some of the lyrics.. "somebody got a sex-change reversal" I have to also state this... I effing HATE the 'loudness wars' - This song and many others deserve so much better. It ruins the fidelity of the recording :/ It Takes Love Thanks for another generic ballad Den... You've done far better - oh you didn't even write this one? Then WHY?!? Can't hate those vocals though .. snapping! Admittedly the two songs from GH Pt.2 never got much play from me. On My Way Love the intro - it starts off so good. Tommy's voice on this is spectacular, the harmonies are perfect especially at the very end there... DAMN! Great lyrics too. Dennis' keyboards are just right, great 'accenting' throughout. It feels like a modern Styx song. Paradise Uh, hello... I was like 15 and MADLY IN LOVE with my girlfriend... of course I love(d) this song. Also - I think Dennis sings it well, and the song still 'rocks' - so it's not *that* sappy of a ballad Dear John What can one say - It's a deep and heartfelt tribute to a friend. I'm not crying, it's just dusty up in here! As for the RTP video, it would be the first time I'd ever SEE a Styx concert - From the intro to the end, it just blew my mind. Rockin' The Paradise is my absolute favourite live version... I've seen them perform it (with Gowan) but the guitar solos here have never been matched from what I've seen. Lady is missing the 'extended intro' on the CD where Dennis speaks to the crowd... fun, but I can see why it'd be omitted from the audio only release JY's intro of Snowblind is fun, but missing from the CD - "none of those bad guys had a damn thing to do with this next song" heh. The solo is also just spectacular, flawless JY! Suite Madame Blue has never sounded so wonderful. Interestingly enough, on the video it just cuts right into the song whereas on the CD, Dennis introduces it; "this song goes back to 1975, was a song I wrote about the bi-centennial celebration, it's a song about America" When Dennis sings 'conquered the world and moooooore' he holds it for nearly 25 SECONDS! WOW! I'll always love the synth part before the guitars come in and this live iteration is just gravy baby! Tommy's intro to Crystal Ball intro is great, love the crowd interaction and the guitar work. Another reason to watch the video, it ain't on the CD folks! Interestingly enough, omitted from the video (but on the CD) is hear Tommy saying "this is just for you tonight, a song called Crystal Ball" The introduction Dennis gives on The Grand Illusion is awesome... "Don't you go believing, movies and TV and rock videos and all that crap, come on I mean really!" Great live version and the guitar solo from Tommy is top notch. Chuck is having an absolute blast on stage during this number! Love the intro on Fooling Yourself - another track where some audio portions are omitted from the CD; After Dennis says "relax, take it easy" Tommy does a "hey hey!" and later Dennis does a "hey!" during Tommy's "why must you be such an angry young man" Love the keyboard solo from Dennis. The video version of Show Me The Way is more complete. On the CD all you get is Dennis saying "I'd like to play this song for John" but on the video you get the full speech "This past summer, we suffered a very dear tragic loss. Our friend, our drummer, our brother for the past 35 years, John Panozzo passed this summer. Let's have a hand for John please." wonderful tribute - RIP John. Boat On The River is great live and great to watch on the video. That's it! JY and Tommy's back and fourth guitar solo on Lorelei, DAAAAAAAMN! Nice version of Babe Gotta way this is probably the best Miss America I've heard. From the intro to the end - just great. It's almost like JY was waiting all night for this one Come Sail Away is one where on the video they removed the intro. On the CD, you get Dennis stating "If you've got yourself a dream. Work hard, believe in yourself because I know dreams can come true." Renegade has more of an intro on the video.. Todd comes on stage with his handycam and Tommy tells the crowd "Hey Chicago, say hello to Todd's videocamera! We're gonna look at ya'll later!" Here is the footage from Todd's camera! The song is also longer on the DVD - there's an entire section missing from the CD of the call and repeat Tommy does with the audience and a little "I shot the sheriff!" - this is part of that cherry on top I mentioned The Best Of Times closing out the show is now bittersweet to me - I know they toured in 1997 but unless it's in a vault somewhere, Return To Paradise is the last full concert with Dennis and Chuck to be recorded professionally.
Terrific post, @Styxguy! That was Mike-worthy! Note: I can’t imagine poor Dennis seeing that SNL skit on the day his dad died. I hope that story isn’t true. It’s kind of a funny premise, but the songs chosen are mostly pretty good, IMO. I must say I’ve never found Will Ferrell even remotely entertaining, though, so I guess it’s par for the course for me. Hey, random crazy thought: have any of you ever noticed the odd way some lyrics to their songs earn a sort of historical significance for the band on later albums? In ‘78 you’ve got Tommy singing “Paradise - can it be all I heard it was” In ‘90, Burtnik mentions “a brave new world where the strong will survive” In ‘97, Tommy says “if I had a criminal mind, I’d have got myself a gun” Just funny coincidences, I guess!
All you young’uns (or would that be DeYoung’uns? ) on this thread didn’t get to be as cool as me, being a fan when they were active at their peak. Imagine how cool I was with this vintage belt buckle! The photo doesn’t really do it justice, because the lettering refracted light. As if that wasn’t enough, I also had a SECOND Styx belt buckle (fashion icon that I was) for more refrained, elegant attire. Simple gold in appearance. Bet you’re all green with envy!
Yes, love the word "connections" - totally random I'm sure but fun either way As for the SNL bit - I actually found the interview (with JY) which put that nugget in my head... even found a post I made about it elsewhere back in 2018 Q&A with Styx :: The Grand Illusion And there was something that Will Ferrell did on Saturday Night Live back in 1997 where he actually did an impersonation of Dennis DeYoung at the piano, and was singing "Best of Times." They were releasing a CD, which was of course completely make believe, but it was called "The Songs That Ruined Everything." And Will Ferrell on there said something about "took a respected progressive rock band and turned them into an easy listening laughingstock." (laughs) And that's exaggeration, and it's for Saturday Night Live so you'd expect them to take a nugget of what is true and then exaggerate it, but I think there was an element of truth to that, certainly from my perspective, and sadly it aired the night Dennis DeYoung's father died, so it was brutal for Dennis. Although I think that he, in a way, was able to take it as sort of that, hey, he was important enough to be singled out. By the way.... Dennis was also "parodied" once more on SNL. Horatio Sanz played him on an episode in April of 2005 ... it's a garbage skit.... but it's there. He does a few one liner parodies of Mr. Roboto and Lady Here's that skit either way
So MikeInFla we’ll have to expand this thread as they just released The Same Stardust for download or stream. Or did you already plan on doing this release? I was able to grab the blue vinyl on RSD, but nice to also have a easily accessible digital version.
I was already planning to cover Stardust with COTC since it was originally released a week before. That will will be a double feature! I'll be sure to mention it's available on vinyl for RSD and digital downloads.
I quite enjoyed the new tracks on Stardust. I got COTC on vinyl but now have been saving it for this thread once we get to it
Happy to hear that you are going to include the solo albums. It's been great fun to hear the back story and read the reviews so far in this thread. Very well done. As I mentioned a few times I wasn't following Styx at this point so I was unaware of the reunion tour and new music. So for many of these songs I just recently listened to them for the first time. The exception was of course Lady which got a lot of radio play and I liked hearing it on the radio after enjoying the original for years. To me these fragments are interesting and I would understand the anticipation must have been high for a new album. I was likely too busy raising my two young sons to notice. The highlight for me is the amazingly good video of the Styx performance on Return to Paradise. They are in exceptionally good form and spirits. It sounds as good on CD as watching the show. As far as the second Greatest Hits I was not aware of it's existence at the time. I listened to the two new tracks and I was pleasantly surprised. Even more surprised to hear that Dennis didn't write It Takes Love, it sounds very Dennis. The tracks on Return to Paradise are even better. Dear John being the best of all. Paradise might be too typical Dennis ballad for me again but it's okay. Overall I really wish I paid more attention to Styx at this time and I wish the could have made an album. Not sure Dennis had a Come Sail Away in his back pocket but I am sure he could have helped make a worthy Styx album. Looking forward to reading further into my lost years with Styx.
Brave New World – June 29, 1999 1. I Will Be Your Witness (4:31) 2. Brave New World (5:14) 3. While There’s Still Time (3:53) 4. Number One (4:33) 5. Best New Face (3:36) 6. What Have They Done To You (4:33) 7. Fallen Angel (4:49) 8. Everything Is Cool (5:19) 9. Great Expectations (4:44) 10. Heavy Water (4:29) 11. High Crimes & Misdemeanors (Hip-Hop-Cracy) (3:26) 12. Just Fell In (3:25) 13. Goodbye Roseland (3:49) 14. Brave New World Reprise (3:31) By the end of the tour for The Grand Illusion Anniversary & support for RTP, Chuck was completely exhausted and became sicker and sicker. At the end of the summer he got a call about recording a new album. It was a 30 minute drive one way and he struggled to make the round trip drive each day and was falling asleep in the studio. Chuck: “I still wasn’t taking medication for my HIV and the physical symptoms were apparent to everyone but me”. In 1998 Chuck was diagnosed with AIDS. They performed at a PBS special in Chicago. The sound engineer motioned that he could not hear Chuck playing. Chuck: “My fingers were too weak to hit the strings hard enough. That night I got an email from Tommy. It was along the lines of ‘Chuck, we know you’re gay and we know about HIV. What’s going on?’. I knew it was time to be honest with him. The next time we were together I told them I had something to tell them. In general they were very supportive. Suzanne & Dennis were very kind. Tommy & JY were very affected by the news. During the next few weeks I tried to keep going and showing up for rehearsals and not dozing off on the job. But we soon discovered I wasn’t the only one having problems. Dennis was becoming more and more sensitive to light. Honestly, where Dennis’s illness is concerned, I think most of the guys just didn’t understand it. Our recording sessions were delayed”. From The Sun Sentinel: (special thanks to @Styxguy for pointing this out to me previously elsewhere. This article is after the fact of BNW but I wanted to include it at this point anyway). A different tune The feud came to a head in 2000, when DeYoung, suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome, battled to prevent the rest of the band from touring without him under the name Styx. Eventually a settlement was reached that allowed Styx sans DeYoung to keep the name, while DeYoung, who now tours with new arrangements and a symphony orchestra, can bill himself as "playing the music of Styx." "That's when I wielded the most power I've ever had in the band, after my brother passed away," Panozzo says. "My vote determined who would get the name Styx." Panozzo sided with Shaw and Young in part because he agreed with them on the band's direction, but also because he felt slighted by DeYoung during the recording of the album Brave New World in 1999. By this time Panozzo, who had been in denial for years about his AIDS symptoms, was on an aggressive cycle of drugs. As a result, he was too weak to play the bass parts on the new songs. DeYoung, one of the band's chief songwriters, argued that Panozzo's name should be left off the album. Even though Shaw and Young stood up for their old friend, Panozzo gathered his strength, went into the studio and recorded the bass parts for two songs. "I said 'If I don't work on it, I don't want credit,'" Panozzo says. "I'll take up the challenge of going in there and recording something. And I did. Afterward I got 10 phone calls congratulating me. But if I had one thing determining my decision to go with Tommy and JY instead of Dennis, that was it. JY had called me with some bad news and said that Dennis didn’t want to put my name on the album since I didn’t play on the final cut. JY picked me up and took me to the studio. There was no one there except JY and a couple of engineers. I did it for John. I did it for mom. I did it for myself. In the end I felt proud of what I had done”. Glen Burtnik would ghost-play bass on most of the album and even contribute backing vocals. Todd: “I got the call that there was going to be a new studio record and they wanted to know if I would be involved. Tommy & I both lived in LA. The best studios on the planet! But we flew into Chicago and I laid my tracks down. I was a session player. It wasn’t a band vibe but that’s OK. I laid my tracks down and left. Dennis was vocal about Tommy & JY’s tracks and they were vocal about his. I wasn’t around for the bulk of whatever went down in sessions, I just did my job and left”. Glen: “By the time Brave New World was being recorded the only way Dennis would work was in his home with the lights off. It was odd for us having to work in the dark and stand around in our socks because Dennis wouldn’t allow us to wear shoes in his house. He refused to fly to LA to work with the others. Tommy then drew the line and refused to live in a funky hotel in Nowhereland, IL. JY would record with Dennis then fly out to LA with tapes to record with Tommy”. Dennis: “Things were going along swimmingly, there were no problems as far as I knew”. Todd: “I wasn’t around for a lot of apparently what went down. Tommy was flying back and forth and staying at a cardboard wall hotel. They reached a fork in the road where Tommy was going to work on his tracks from home too at The Record Plant. Other people came in and played on some tracks. I don’t know who because I wasn’t there but it got to where they had to finish songs without Dennis”. Dennis enlisted bass player Hank Horton from JY’s band to play on some of his songs. Glen sang and played on Tommy & JY’s songs. Chuck was in poor health and was barely involved. Also around this time the official Styx website became silent. Tommy would normally update band notes about the recording process almost weekly but then it just stopped. In Feb of 1999 the band was approached about a tour. It had already been decided that Glen would replace Chuck, who was too ill to tour. Dennis: “This was in Feb when they wanted me to commit to a full tour. I was so ill I couldn’t commit to anything and I was baffled. I couldn’t find medical help from anyone. Nothing would help me improve so I did not want to commit to anything that I couldn’t uphold”. Tommy: “When he said that my heart just sank and I knew it was over”. Todd: “I got a call from Tommy & JY and they were upset. There was an opportunity to do a tour and Dennis said no because of his health. I’m not going to say one way or the other because I don’t know. I’m not him. But after we did the last show on the previous tour he did tell Gary Loizzo he was never doing this again”. JY: “Dennis says he has been to 16 different doctors. I’m going to let that statement stand. If they can’t figure out what is wrong with him, I don’t know how I’m supposed to. I completely disagree with the way he wants to do this whole thing. For the all the years we wanted to get together he was busy doing other things. Everything was going by his timetable. We were supposed to get back together after one solo album. He wouldn’t even entertain the notion. I felt I had no say so and no ability to do anything until he wanted to do something. We were his second choice in 1984 and even 96 and 97 because he was still trying to make it on Broadway. Enough’s enough, I’m tired of it”. Dennis: “Tommy called me and said if there wasn’t going to be a tour he wasn’t interested in finishing the album. Then two days later JY called and said they wanted me to commit to a tour but that if I didn’t they were going out without me. I called Tom Lipsky at CMC and said they wanted to go on tour without finishing the album and I wasn’t the reason. I told him I wanted to finish the record. So he stepped in to get the album finished. JY & Tommy finished their 9 songs in California without my input. That’s why the album is the way it is”. Glen: “It was already planned for me to replace Chuck on the CMN charity show. I had missed out on the drama of recording the album because I did most of my parts at Tommy’s. I didn’t understand it yet but I was aware there was a mutiny going on. Tommy mailed me what I thought was the complete album. I liked it but it didn’t sound like a typical Styx record. I later realized he only sent me his songs. Cracks me up now when I think about it”. The album sounded like solo tracks from each member and each had produced their own songs. Styx had a scheduled appearance on the CMN Telethon. It would be DeYoung’s last show with the band. (This full show is on YouTube and has good quality. Several versions are there but one in particular has excellent quality but I think it has since been pulled by YT as the guy got a 90 day lockout from YT for some reason. Either way, the show is out there). Todd: “There was a lot of ongoing tension over BNW. I got the call to play and it was going to be Glen on bass and Dennis would be there. I had some gear problems and some monitor problems so I played the entire show only hearing my drums, not hearing a single note that anyone else sang or played. I had to play completely out of memory. I was playing the next afternoon at the big jazz festival so I had to leave immediately. The last thing I said to Dennis was ‘Get better man!’”. Glen: “I shared a dressing room with Dennis and I was cool with it, I got along with him. But Dennis refused to speak to Gary Loizzo, I guess because he agreed to do the upcoming tour. The tour manager was relaying messages between the two instead of them just speaking”. Several singles were released from the album. Everything Is Cool, Number One, While There’s Still Time and I Will Be Your Witness was released under the name XTS (it did not say Styx anywhere on the label). I used to have all of these singles. Apparently the XTS single is pretty rare because it is not even on Discogs: XTSDJ 87318-2-XTS: I Will Be Your Witness (Album/Edit) 1999 CMC International Records [CD Promo Only]. A live single of “Edge Of The Century" was released around the holidays and contained holiday greetings from the band and a remixed version of “Best New Face”. In July of 1999 the live dates were booked for an extensive tour. It was the debut of the new line-up featuring Canadian Lawrence Gowan on keyboard and vocals (I attended the second ever show by them in Farmington, MO at a high school gym. It was a great show but the acoustics were terrible being in a gym. Edgar Winter and Starship featuring Mickey Thomas opened the show). Lawrence opened some shows for Styx in Canada in 1997 on the previous tour. There were plans for Dennis to join them when he got better. But as time went on and tempers flared it became less of an option. Dennis called a newspaper reporter to discredit the tour and that was the last straw for Tommy & JY. On to the songs: I Will Be Your Witness: Written by Tommy & Jack Blades. I think “Everything Is Cool” would’ve been a better album opener. Slow tune with layered vocals. It’s decent enough and I like the wah-wah guitar. I Will Be Your Witness was an odd opening song and quite melancholy. Backing vocals sound like all Tommy. Not really a bad song but not off to a great start. Brave New World: Has a middle eastern feel to it, written by Tommy & JY with Tommy on lead vocals. I believe I do indeed hear Dennis on backing vocals on this track but I can’t be sure. Maybe it is wishful thinking. While There’s Still Time: A Dennis ballad and a good one. A previously recorded demo which was originally planned for GH Part 2. This version is slightly different but there are A&M CD singles of the first version floating around (It is also on an A&M comp CD called “Assorted Chews”). I don’t hear a bass at all. Maybe synth-bass? It’s a nice song and has nice harmonies from Tommy but certain times it seems portions are all Dennis on backing vocals. Number One: A modern sounding rock tune with distorted vocals. Glen can clearly be heard on backing vocals during “something better”. He also plays bass on this track. Best New Face: Written again by Tommy & Jack and features CJ Vanston on keyboards. He previously played on DDY’s solo albums. Up tempo song. Personally I like it but a lot of fans don’t. Dennis does not play on this song. The song would later be remixed with added guitars. If you have not heard the original version then listen to it before playing the remix. In fact, if you've never heard the album listen to the whole thing first then come back here and play the remix. What Have They Done To You: Lead vocals by JY and Tommy. Has an odd drum track to it in places, a mid-tempo rocker. I like it. Fallen Angel: A nice Dennis song with strings, mid-tempo and nice piano work. Sounds somewhat show tune-ish at the beginning. Decent song but I don’t like the intro. I keep expecting him to belt out Broadway style vocals on this one. Backing vocals sound like all Dennis. I like it when it picks up around 1:22. Sounds like a JY guitar solo. I like the piano on this song in the middle. Everything Is Cool: The original title of this song was “Brave New World”. Rumor has it Tommy wrote this song for Dennis to sing. Dennis said it needed some work so Tommy gave it to Dennis to rework some of the parts…. Then nothing happened. No changes were made and Tommy ended up singing on it because Dennis wouldn't make any changes. It was evident the band was still working together at this point because Dennis is clearly heard on the outro. (The above info was told to me by someone with knowledge at the time with the happenings and dealings with the band). The beginning/intro of the song contains other Styx songs. At one time I knew them all but I will try to identify them now. You can hear them while listening on headphones. At :03 the drum and bass hit are from another song (can’t remember which one). :07 seconds “Just one hit” from “Light Up”. :10 “I’m gonna make you feel it”! :12 intro to Mademoiselle. :17 “I’m gonna make you feel it! :20 under phone dials, intro to Mademoiselle. :23 Whoa-Whoa-Woah from ”Born For Adventure”. :31 seconds the spoken word is John Panozzo. I can’t remember everything he says but I know “Hey Roboto, your mother was a Toyota! Ain’t got no rhythm, ain’t got no rhythm” is said during the opening. :35 “livin’ high” from “Borrowed Time”. After that more spoken word from John Panozzo. So technically speaking this album features the late Johnny P on spoken word. Now, this is a great rockin’ song but HOW COOL would it have been to have Dennis sing this? This is my favorite track on the album. Great Expectations: Another slow song from Dennis. Maybe it is about expectations everyone had of him while he was ill? I don’t know. Nice percussion work from Todd on this one. I never really cared for this song until a friend mentioned it sounded similar to The Police’s “Walking On The Moon” which I love. Heavy Water: Heavy rocker from JY. The chorus of “Heavy, Heavy Water!” remind me of “Born For, Born For Adventure!”. When they played this live they would use the intro of “Put Me On”. High Crimes & Misdemeanors: Can a song be worse than “First Time”? Yes. It is this song. Totally forgettable. And I will be curious to know if @SRC can make it thru the complete song without skipping since he has never heard a single note from this album. Just Fell In: Originally written for Dennis to sing. It might have actually been a better song with him singing because of his personality. Might have worked better with Dennis on vocals in a “Not Dead Yet” kind of way. Goodbye Roseland: Almost a gospel-like sounding tune. A fitting end for Dennis as he says Goodbye. For those with a sharp ear is that Hank Horton on bass or Dennis on synth-bass? A pleasant enough song but nothing I go out of my way to hear. Brave New World Reprise: A song that repeats the theme of the album to close it out. I can swear I hear Dennis on backing vocals on this one so it may have been another song at one time or recorded early in the sessions, I guess we will never know. After BNW they would release various live albums (which I will not cover) including Arch Allies with REO Speedwagon, Styxworld Live 2001 and At The River’s Edge which was the same show as Arch Allies but had more tracks. VH1 would do an episode on Styx for “Behind The Music” and none of the members were happy with the results. In October Dennis would file a lawsuit against the band. Chuck: “I was sorry to see that happen because I have known Dennis for 40 years and love him like a brother. I’m sorry that he is hurt but he has to do what he has to do and we have to do what we have to do”. Chuck was feeling much better and began making appearances at select shows and still does so to this day. Brave New World would be the last Styx release to feature Dennis. In Oct of 2001 the lawsuit was settled allowing the band to continue using the Styx name and Dennis could tour as “formerly of Styx” or “performing the music of Styx”. In 2001 Styx would release a single from “Styxworld 2001”. A Criminal Mind was released as a CD single with High Enough (CMCCDJ 87338-2 – another one I used to have and gave away or traded for a bootleg). In 2002 Styx would record a Christmas song for the CMC release “A Classic Rock Christmas”. The song is titled “All I Want”. The album featured songs from REO Speedwagon, Felix Cavaliere, John Waite, Eddie Money, Greg Lake, Survivor and more. The album also featured “The 12 Days of Christmas” by Tommy Shaw & Jack Blades. If I were able to have this on vinyl as a single disc my choice would look like this: (completely cutting several tracks from the album): Side A: 1. Everything Is Cool 2. Best New Face 3. Fallen Angel 4. While There’s Still Time Side B: 1. Brave New World 2. Heavy Water 3. Great Expectations 4. Goodbye Roseland 5. Brave New World (Reprise) But I doubt it would ever be released on vinyl nor would I really have a desire to have it as a complete record because it would have to be a double LP set to fit all of the songs on it. The classic Styx comes to a close.... And not with a bang. I was so excited when this came out! I was at work that day and had a coworker go pick it up for me that morning. I could not wait to play it! Before opening the shrink wrap I noticed something on the back cover that I thought was a bit odd. It was produced not by Styx but each individual member. And then I opened the booklet and saw “*” next to all of Dennis’s songs. It was evident before I even played it that each person had produced their own tracks. The cover art was nothing spectacular. I think a real woman instead of a cartoon would’ve worked better. Real everything would make it better. Dennis had actually picked the artwork out but it wasn’t used. That art was later used on the CD single for “While There’s Still Time” (sorry I could not find a photo of it anywhere). I was greatly disappointed in this release but I did play it constantly for over a year.
Promo poster: I also want to mention that since I attended the 2nd show ever (July) by this line-up it was odd to see them at a high school gym. I wanted a t-shirt and was surprised to find out they had no new merchandise for sale. All of the shirts were from the previous tour. They were even selling those "Styx" Kilroy logo patches (like the neon lights). I picked up a shirt that had a band photo on the front and the back said "Grand Illusion 97" with the tour dates on it. However, I saw them again in St. Louis in November and they finally had shirts to promote the album. I bought a white shirt with a design similar to the poster above with the band on the front as well. I also bought a black t-shirt with the album cover. I still have both shirts and wear them from time to time. Also, since I was in radio at the time I did ask to meet the band during that show in July. I explained that I was with a radio station and would like to meet the band. I was told they were not doing meet and greets but was given this photo: It was autographed. I have no idea where mine is now. Lawrence is photo-shopped into the photo. Maybe at the time they took it they had not yet decided on who was going to tour.
Ah... Brave New World. I would have been 15 (turning 16 later in the year) in 1999. I was so excited that after discovering this band barely two years prior that they were reunited and putting a new album together. It would be a rough ride and a sad end of a chapter in Styx history. Sadly this time period also created a significant fracturing amongst the more involved fans. To this day fans are still fractured, some throwing insults at one another or the band members. I'll admit I've got my opinions and biases over it, but I'm happy that both camps have still been around for another 22 years.
Thanks @MikeInFla once again for the extensive, insightful notes. It's like reading a concise little book about Styx history over time, and since I'm ignorant of a lot of it, it's so great to have the context. It's the kind of informative content that originally brought me to this forum. (There was a thread here about Rainbow that I found via Google, which was similarly in depth with history and interesting tidbits.) That being said, I'm listening to BNW now and some things are indeed just obvious without the backstory. First, I must say the cover is weak. It's an interesting idea, but the execution comes off amateur compared to previous (and I think subsequent) covers. Even the logo here is unnecessarily weak. But on to the songs, "live-posting" my first listen, forgive my length as usual: I Will Be Your Witness: I thought this was OK. Would I like more from a Tommy Shaw song, yeah, it's still not up to classic standards, but at least here I appreciate he's putting his all into this. It comes off, as many more songs here I assume will, like a solo album track, but in a way, that's good - it doesn't feel like he's half-assing it, i.e. "oh boy, gotta throw some of my leftovers onto another Styx album for Dennis." Instead it feels like this is where Shaw begins to assert control over the band. Having the next song be his also, reinforces this. But I must say, once the next song started, I completely forgot how this first track went. It was not memorable, except for the strings, which I liked, and the mood that was interestingly...moody... Brave New World: Oddly spooky intro but I like this tune far more than I expected to (perhaps after Edge of the Century's title track was not my cup of tea.) I *do* feel I hear DeYoung on the backing vocals here also! It sounds close enough to make this pretty strong for me in terms of connecting it with the band. I'd say this sounds like Styx to me (which I'll try to explain later) and I can see how, if I'd been an involved fan and got this album in 1999, I would have been into this. Coming now years later, I don't think I'll be revisiting this too much, but I can still hear that this is higher quality material than I expected. While There’s Still Time: Hearing DeYoung's voice is comforting- still feeling like Styx here. Shaw on background? Sounds like it. It's not my kind of tune, but as with Shaw's songs, I feel DeYoung is definitely putting his all into this. Only three tunes in, and this is a stronger album to me than Edge of the Century. Really hitting me that Burtnik was just not for me, in this band. Number One: Verses are OK but not loving the song overall or the production - the distorted vox don't save the weak chorus. Middle bridge is nice. Yeah, I guess this is a collection of solo tracks instead of any kind of band album/collaboration. Still seems to have better energy and effort somehow than Edge. And I don't mind that DeYoung may not be on all the tracks, since at least he's still on the album itself. This song goes on long enough, it's growing on me - nice guitar solo section where I'm hearing JY in the vocals. Best New Face: OK, another tune that isn't rocking my world, but it's good enough for what it is. Shaw's dominance feeling quite heavy overall on this album so far, no? What's cool is that even when a song is no great shakes, Shaw's vocal performance is still worth a listen. I listened to the remix after this. I like the additional guitar leads, but not so much else. What Have They Done To You: I'm a huge Mahavishnu Orchestra fan so I was eager to hear Jerry Goodman on this, but then barely noticed him. Nice to hear a JY/Shaw duet. But this is starting to feel a bit more of the same - big "rock" production, Shaw singing his ass off about something, similar tempos and beats... Good chorus on this one though, might be a standout track. Still, the underlying groove feels generic, as with other tracks. I'm longing for the diversity of their 70's albums, just in terms of grooves alone. Fallen Angel: Broadway feel, but that's DeYoung, so it's fitting. Solid songwriting, but nothing I'd need to hear again. I can see this album being decent on a long drive - otherwise, a few times now, I've been a little eager to skip ahead. That being said, don't think I'll be playing BNW on any long drives soon - if I had nostalgia for this period, my responses here would be different of course. A song like this overstays its welcome a little, and as such, struggles to compete against the more sonic-bludgeoning tracks preceding it... Everything Is Cool: ...and following it! Bit odd that "Brave New World" is in the hook of this one also. I like the quiet break in the middle of this song better than the rest, those quieter moments from Shaw might be some of the high points of the album for me. I appreciate there's a ton of good effort here. The ending is cool. I hear DeYoung there vocally, and the keyboards (even if not him) harken back to earlier times. Great Expectations: Oh boy, Dennis...here you go again...the gentler touch of his tracks struggle next to the heavier ones. Yeah, this one sounds personal though, maybe, and that's really the most interesting lyrical aspect of the album so far, even if the music here itself is not my bag. This is where, and I forget if it's Sucherman all the way through the album, or if some are samples, I do not dig the snare sounds here or on much of this record. Heavy Water: Ahh, JY, give us that Styx vibe...and good to hear Shaw too. Vocals in the chorus have that classic sound, and as JY rockers go, this one seems relatively strong. Feeling a little fatigued though...the album's songs are generally long-ish, so it's hard to fathom that there are still four whole songs still left to go. The album and song length is typical of the era, and in the end, I'll take more over less, but with nothing standing out to me as being completely amazing, it's a bit tiring. High Crimes & Misdemeanors: Well, I was able to get through it. But yeah, this is the "detour" sign on the highway. Shaw and JY themselves likely never listened to this all the way through. Well, this song isn't the end of the world, but it's cheese, and despite some critical/political vibe about them, the lyrics fail to make any specific point. And the sound of those drums...yikes... Just Fell In: I had to go back and check @MikeInFla's notes here - makes sense this was written for DeYoung, because this feels quite unlike all the other Shaw songs. And it would have been good if DeYoung had sung it, to balance out his somewhat lower energy work on the album so far. But as a Shaw-led song, I'd say this song is actually only a few cuts about High Crimes...but one thing I'll say positively about both these last two tunes is that they don't overstay their welcome. Goodbye Roseland: I like this well enough. Yeah, it's not just cliche or association to say that DeYoung's work at this point feels like it belongs on Broadway. But still, I think he's got something personal in this song too. It's not as heavy emotionally as some of his classic work, but I do appreciate a personal/autobiographical aspect of this song, it helps me connect to it emotionally more than the Shaw/JY rockers. And it does indeed make a somewhat poignant end to his time with the band. Probably another standout track for me even if, like his other songs, it doesn't seem to fit in the whole. And again, I like that this one doesn't go on for four and half minutes or more... Brave New World Reprise: If this is a reprise of the earlier song, I've actually forgotten it by now. That's my main criticism of the album overall; there's a lot of effort and energy here, great care has been taken with each track relatively, but nothing is terribly memorable. OK, I'm remembering the earlier song now, but this feels a bit weak, as if this is a demo. Which is odd since the album up until this point has felt like they spent more time on "production" than on songwriting. It's all too vague lyrically, as if they expected everything else to carry it. (I imagine it did, for some.) Oh, but there's "Heavy Water" coming back, nice. But this is not enough to give the record conceptual weight or meaning as a whole, by any stretch. And then it just kind of fades...I think the album needed to "say" a bit more. That's the credit I give to the DeYoung tracks (High Crimes aside) at least, he seems to be trying to communicate something personal and emotional, whereas the rock tunes feel a little too "cool" and detached. Wikipedia says "The album has a strong science fiction theme, as indicated by the album's title and song references to the well known eponymous book." On the surface of a first listen, I didn't hear any of that at all. Well, I hear a little (i.e. "Number One") but it's all still vague enough lyrically that it doesn't have weight in that direction. Maybe a read through of all the lyrics would change my mind, but what I heard didn't seem to be saying too much. Anyway, a decent record for what it is and for its time period and style. I'm glad I finally heard it. It may not become a favorite of mine but it's better than I thought it would be. I could probably put one strong album/playlist together for myself, with one or two Edge tracks, one or two other reunion tracks, and dropping a couple here, but there'd be even less cohesion. Before saying goodbye to the DeYoung era (sniff...), I've been trying to understand what I mean when I say something does or doesn't "sound like Styx." 'Cause I know it sounds limiting, as if I refuse to allow the band to change and evolve from the original era. But I guess to me, Styx sounds like the classic lineup, simple as that. DeYoung/Shaw/JY singing together and collaborating on each other's material. Chuck Panozzo is not a terribly iconic presence sonically, but I do miss John Panozzo here. Sucherman is technically great, but the way the album's production seems to lean on its drum sounds just exposes a sort of "samey" approach to a number of the songs, and a lot of the songs just feel interchangeable in their parts. Panozzo's drums in the early era just fit in better, it seems. They didn't hit you in the face, and are less dated sounding now. The other thing though, that Styx "sounds like" to me, is stronger songs than this. All of their classic songs blow everything here out of the water, in terms of immediacy and memorability. But, as I've said on other threads, musical artists really seem to do their very best work over a short time, 7-10 years at best. Everything after that is just icing on the cake, and I'm thankful for it all. But it's interesting that here, the individuals seem to be doing their best to make strong tracks, but they miss the mark when compared to their earlier work. I don't think it's regressive and backward-thinking to wish the songs were stronger, along with the arrangements. I think they should have leaned more on The Grand Illusion style arrangements. Think about "Fooling Yourself": interesting, mildly proggy synth/acoustic guitar intro, into a half time acoustic soft rock feel, strong vocals and melody and lyrics that speak clearly, harmonies on the chorus, synth solo, light and shade, reprise of opening section, uptempo joyous outro...now that's an arrangement. "Come Sail Away" - a perfect blend of piano ballad that eventually rocks out, than goes off into synth land, then crashes back....These arrangements were very clear and memorable, never "too much" in terms of ideas. And the lyrics were fairly direct and the melodies utterly catchy. The "rocking" tunes here on BNW just seem to come one after another generically, plodding loudly from section to section without much distinction - a few small moments aside, which I tried to point out here and there above. And DeYoung's ballads (as he lost any desire to go heavy, it seems) never really get off the ground - no arrangement as clear and contrasting as "Lady" or even dare I say, "Don't Let It End" - which may be cheesy but is still relatively memorable and dynamic. Speaking of which (still reading?) - unless I've forgotten, this is the first (and last) DeYoung/Shaw/JY album since Kilroy, it's fifteen or so years later but it's worth a quick comparison. BNW is a "cooler" record - no songs about robots that I could hear, no Dr. Righteous super-cheese, etc. But the good stuff for me on Kilroy far surpasses BNW even if it's not as...visceral. "Mr. Roboto" for all its goofiness is a catchy synth pop tune, "Just Get Through This Night" is a compelling and thoughtful ballad from Shaw with a fantastic mood, "Haven't We Been Here Before" is a great duet that really seems to reach out to the listener's heart. I don't get any of that here really, though I give DeYoung credit for trying a bit of that, even if in total isolation. Anyway, rock on. I'm going to stay respectful to others' tastes, because a good thread like this sets the right tone for all its contributors. But I am not a Gowan fan at all...so...we'll see how it goes. At least now, BNW has somewhat accustomed me to the idea of Styx without DeYoung, and I also found that I dislike Burtnik's style even less than Gowan, so there's that...
This is a wonderful post and answers most of the questions I wanted to know a few pages ago. It sounds as if Dennis dug his own grave to an extent regarding who got the Styx name but somewhat understandable as he must have been miserable himself dealing with an undiagnosed illness. I wonder if Dennis knows now why he lost the support of Chuck and regrets it? He probably does. Now Styx was not on top of my radar by the end of the century as I was still satisfied from seeing the original group live a few years prior. But, I have to say there must have been some revisionist marketing going on between before Brave New World was released and a year or two after. I honestly never knew that this was a Styx album with Dennis involvement and intended to be their follow up to the successful tour! I knew there were tour plans that were shelved because of the light sensitivity issue. But, I was always under the impression that this was the first effort from the new Styx featuring Lawrence. By the time I saw them again on the "Arch Allies" tour they were calling this their new album and of course the name Dennis would forever be banned from being mentioned at any live event. I'm inspired now to have a listen to "Brave New World" when I get some time. I think it's going to be fascinating, especially with the thorough notes offered in the post above and those that follow, to listen to what was made...and also what could have been made...if it had truly been a team effort and not just bits and pieces recorded all over the globe.
