Since emigrating I only stream music now using a pair of KEF LS50W2. I’d say I listen to 99% classical music, symphonies, chamber and solo instrument. I see in certain KEF groups, any question re sound quality receive the answer ‘get a sub’. It’s seems to be a fascination. So my question is, listening only to classical music, do you fine people use subwoofers at all? If yes, what would you say it brings to the music please and is the improvement significant enough to justify the outlay? Think I’m old fashioned enough that I’ve always considered that a subwoofer is for people who want more bass. Do I need to reconsider? Thanks
Listen to the timpani … with and without a sub. The LS50W2 with a sub is much better. Done that before.
LS50W2 with a sub is much better all round? Or just in percussion etc? Thing is I’m loving the sound quality I’ve got just with these speakers. The balance, clarity and instrument timbre is excellent. But obviously if adding a sub gives a huge improvement then I’d consider it
A sub fills out the bottom end, it gives depth to the music. A good sub should blend in perfectly, that is not be noticeable unless muted/turned off. A sealed sub is best for music and a sealed servo sub is even better. Velodyne and Rythmik offer sealed servo subs. Once you've heard a sealed servo sub you get it.
F1Nut has put it nicely in a nutshell. It’s definitely worth it to get a sub and properly integrate it. Less is more with subs unless you are into say EDM.
Small speakers that start rolling off at 50 Hz? Everything about your sound could potentially be improved enormously with a sub -- better imaging and soundstage, more realistic instrumental scale, better sense of space, more realistic transients (transients have energy at all frequencies), greater ease and less distortion and congestion on dynamic peaks at volume (in part because you can free the mains with their little boxes and 5.25" speakers from having to deliver low frequencies at volume, where their distortion goes up), and of course more realistic timbre of instruments with low frequency content, like, in the context of classical music, piano, organ, orchestral bass drums, double bass, harp (if you're only listening to solo violin sonatas, while there will still be an impact on air, soundstage and transients, it's not really going to make as big a difference). But of course, what matters most is the quality of the sub (or subs), the placement and set up of the sub, and how controlled the bass response of the room is. A sub is not a stick-it-in-the-corner-and-forget-it piece of equipment. And setting it up only by ear with program material in my experience always produces frustrating results -- program material is just too different in terms of bass content and levels at which it was mastered, and human hearing is way too non linear in low frequencies with respect to volume to ever produce a set up that will work with all the different program material you're going to listen to that way. You need to be willing to put the sub wherever in the room its going to want to be according to the measurements, you can't be wedded to the notion that it's going to go some place because it suits your decor. You also need to be willing to spend a little time dialing in it's location and settings with frequency sweeps and measurements, which is a bit of a pain, moving a sub this way and that, sometimes a matter of inches, and doing another frequency sweep and running another real time analysis. Also, although one of the advantages of a sub is that you don't have to put it where the mains are, so you can place is somewhere that's better with respect to boundary interference response, whatever challenges there are in the room with respect to your listening position and boundary interference response, and with respect to room modes, and with respect to uneven decay times between high and low frequencies -- and every room has challenges with respect to this below around 150 or 100 Hz -- will be exacerbated by having more bass energy in the room. So if you haven't dealt with these things, be prepared to. Also, not all subs are equally tight and clean or easily configurable, and if you have bass challenges in your room or listening set up (like you're sitting right up against a wall), you could have more problems with a sub than just sticking with the limited LF output small speakers.
A sub furnishes that last octave plus of music the your main speakers are not capable of reproducing. Classical music definitely has instruments that dip into that lowest octave. Pipe organ, kettle drums, double bass, double bassoon etc. Some of this bass is so low that you feel it more than hear it. Your KEF bookshelf style speakers are prime candidates for a sub(s) to give you that missing octave. The KEF's frequency response extends to 45Hz. Two subwoofers are often used because they can be placed in such a way their positions can't be localized. Set up and located properly and you should not be able to hear the bass emanating from your sub. When you have a subwoofer properly integrated into your system you really should not even notice its presence. You will notice it when it is off. My sub occasionally gets turned off when I brush against the rear On-Off switch while vacuuming. I start playing music and after a few minutes I notice something is missing in the music. I check and a sub is off. Go for it-you will not be disappointed.
It may be a little early for me to be commenting, as I got my very first sub (a REL S/510) just a few weeks ago, and have had some limitations on the amount of time I've been able to spend listening to music since I acquired it. Despite that, I want to say that it's hard for me to imagine any conceivable way you won't be wondering why you waited so long to bring a quality sub into your system. I listen to a combination of rock/pop, jazz, and classical, and, as others have posted, what's most noticeable once the sub is dialed in correctly is not necessarily increased bass presence (though that is sometimes the case with certain types of recordings). It's very hard to explain, but by introducing deep bass rather than emphasizing the mid/upper bass that we often associate with "bass-y" presentations, it tends to provide this almost uncanny timbral clarity and spatial ambience that I didn't even realize was missing until I finally heard it. Regarding classical music in particular, my biggest moment of jaw-dropping surprise since I've been listening with the new sub occurred with a Living Stereo SACD of Reiner's performance of Bartok's Concerto For Orchestra. This has long been considered an audiophile classic, and while I always thought it sounded very good, with realistic instrumental timbres on my system, it was only after listening with the sub for the first time that I realized why it has such a legendary reputation: there was a sense of airy space that I've only experienced before in actual symphonic concert halls. It sounded like a completely different recording, and if I didn't know better, I might have thought I had changed something with my treble and midrange response rather than deep bass. The deep bass seems to provide very subtle spatial cues that took this recording into another dimension. Perhaps the most surprising thing I've experienced (on this recording, as well as many others) is the way that soft, delicate sounds seem even more delicate and ethereal than without the sub (which doesn't seem to make sense, but is very unmistakable). To summarize, I believe my speakers already go a little lower into the bass region than yours (supposedly down to 40Hz), and the sub has improved the overall sonics of my system more so than any other single component upgrade I've ever made. I would be shocked if you didn't notice an impressive (and perhaps unexpected) difference as well. I know REL, at least, has a money-back guarantee for new units if you are not satisfied for any reason. Finally, though I agree with most of what Chervokas wrote above, I disagree that you need to use measuring devices to dial in the sound. REL provides a pretty specific set of dial-in instructions which (supplemented with some valuable insight from bever70) allowed me to dial it in quickly and to some pretty astonishing results. I believe I've read posters who have reported that the instructions work great for other brands as well.
Most speakers cannot cover the full frequency spectrum of 20Hz-20kHz, falling short in that lowest octave or so. A true subwoofer is designed for that purpose however, ensuring that you don’t miss any parts of the recorded sound. Another benefit subwoofers provide is the ability to maximize what your main speakers and the subwoofers are good at. Your KEFs have the ability to disappear with proper placement and create a breathtaking soundstage if you pull them out into the room and give them the space that requires. When you do that, with any loudspeaker, you almost always reduce the bass output that having them closer to a boundary (wall/floor) would provide. By bringing subwoofers into the mix you can keep them where they will provide maximum output and keep your main speakers where they’ll provide all of the other things we love about reproduced audio in the home. Research has shown that subwoofers tend to work best when used in multiples and are either in corners or at midway points of opposing walls. This has to do with the way most rooms influence low frequencies (room modes). While you can get decent results with one subwoofer, two are even better and four are ideal for most spaces. The thought is that treatment at these frequencies can be very difficult. If you install multiple subs in the corners to excite the room modes you can then use EQ/DRC to design a curve that will tame the peaks in the frequency response and have full bandwidth playback regardless of the type of music you listen to. But all of that’s not always practical/feasible/logical. If by “classical” music all you listen to are string quartets you might find subs won’t add all that much. If your placement options for the subs/speakers are limited it might not be worthwhile. If you’re fully against using any sort of digital (GASP!) EQ/room correction you might not get great results. A lot of these are why subs get a bad wrap in the stereo world. As someone with speakers that can dip into the lowest octave, who is running two subs and using digital room correction I can tell you that the results can be very ear-opening. To hear recordings you thought you knew well reproduced with deep, smooth bass makes you wish you’d had this experience all along. Good luck in your search. Keep us posted on your findings.
I always shied away from incorporating a sub in my system. I tried it once awhile back and didn’t like the end result.. I probably didn’t have it integrated properly.. I decided to give it another try a few years ago when I had the Maggie .7 speakers. I thought they sounded much better with the sub so I kept it for awhile.. After reading more about the subject I decided to selloff my last sub and get 2 REL T/5x subs.. Having two subs really made a nice improvement in the lower end and evened out the bass in the room.. I don’t listen to Classical that much but I would say a sub or two is in order especially for that type of music.. I think you will be pleasantly surprised once they/it are dialed in..
Oh, for classical music? I’d especially want a subwoofer for classical music. There is so much low frequency you are probably not getting properly with bookshelf speakers and no subwoofer. Subwoofers are not about “more” bass; they are about actually getting all the bass frequencies.
THIS^ I listen to 90% classical for the past 4-5 years. One sub gave me the quality of low end and spaciousness which is actually in a lot of low freq. Putting another sub in smoothed out the bass even more and throughout the room. my wife is a violinist and I’m a musician. So there is no listening to Beethoven without a sub in this house. Lol but even opera, a cello concerto. it’s adds spaciousness. and btw, you cannot tell where my subs are located. No attention to them, the sound just comes from the soundstage from the speakers. I really do not like boom boom boom.
