Subwoofer set up question

My Revel speakers alone can make my room/house shake, providing the source has enough bass like Raising Sand, and many other modern recordings. For those I don't need to use my subs and those little 8" woofers can pound it out as good as any larger driver can but faster and tighter and more definition.

 

Not a problem at all. At the price of lower SPL (I reduced it from 95 dB to 88 dB) I transformed my speakers and sub in "studio monitor speakers" with flat (linear) phase and frequency responses. I use this for my needledrops processing.

 

I don't know if I properly read the charts...
But the last chart is indicating 50db sound level?

 

Oh, you meant these:

That is twin 8" per speaker, correct? I thought single 8". The surface area is almost like having one 12" per speaker. Never mind. I would also love to use these only without sub for most music.

 

The SPL is 89 dB. When the Volume knob is at maximum.

 

I have not been using rew for over 6 years....I am not familiar with your charts....Anyway, it seems your sub start dropping from 35 Hz and is ~10db down at 30 Hz ?

 

The sub is leveled after this REW calibration. I need "studio monitor speakers" to hear all frequencies equally when I process my needledrops. If I want to boost the sub, I make other calibration with greater SPL or I reset the soundcard to factory default.

The maximum SPL I got with my speakers is 95 dB, but I shake the building and neighbours with this volume. This REW app works like an EQ for speakers and fixes the numbers according to my room specs. Very good app.

 

What were the settings they suggested? I have a pair of 30.1's myself and are looking to add my HSU sub to the mix. If you don't mind it would be great to know what SVS suggested. At least it will give me a starting point.

 

Yes, those are my exact speakers with twin 8s and they don't need a sub but my room is so large that the bass dissipates and the subs help fill out the bass. In a smaller room that is enclosed you will definitely not need a sub but you'll need to get them away from the back wall as the bass can be overwhelming depending on the recording. My speakers are 3.5' from the rear wall and about 3 feet from the side walls. Of course you can plug the port if there is too much bass.

One of the great 'audiophile' speakers that can now be found for about $3K. I like them more than Wilsons and Magicos because their top end is sweeter and less fatiguing and I listened to a variety of the Wilsons and Magicos for quite a long time with my LPs but NOT in my house with my associated equipment. I come to dealers bearing gifts

There is a reason why all generations of Ultimas are Full Range Class A speakers - Harmon conducts blind tests using 'normal' people to judge them and compare them with other brand speakers. Harmon can switch out speakers in under 4 seconds - about the length of time between cuts on CDs and LPs so the people don't realize the speakers have been changed!!!!!!!!! No one person 'voices' the speakers, it's a collaboration.

 

I don't have to reconsider my perceptions about smaller vs larger drivers as I have both.

I'm not at all saying that an 8" driver in a proper cabinet can not play down to 23-Hz, most certainly they can, but so can 12" and 15" drivers, in real world settings.

People misunderstand bass and sub-bass. In the real world it is not about playing low, it is about playing strong and convincing.

My large Altec 828 cabinets with 15" woofers can play bass guitar very strong in a way that an 8" driver will never approach and their -3 dB. point is around 47-Hz.

But even most large commercial horn loaded subs are not designed to play that deep, but they play very strong.

The sub by the door is a Yorkville UCS1 and its -3 dB. point is only 37-Hz. But it is driven by a 1,600 Watt Crown amplifier and is capable of playing at 133-dB. with continuous program material. No comparison to what an 8" driver can do.



On either side of the TV are Polk LSiM707's and they can play down to 38-Hz. at their -3 dB. point and down to 20-Hz. with their 6" x 9" subwoofers.



The amount of bass and sub bass that you need depends on the music that you listen to and the size and characteristics of the room that you are listening in.

The Polk LSiM707's are 99-lb. speakers and I power them with a 250-Watt SS power amplifier, but they still can not do what they can with the addition of a sub.

Not all speakers should be played with a sub and a sub should not necessarily be used in all rooms...

 

Aren't those Zu speakers by the TV?

133dB? You'd go deaf at those volumes in your room.

Compromise is a key word in audio, especially when it comes to the size of your Altecs which wouldn't fit in my room or many other forumite's rooms.

In the late 60s and early 70s I was 'caretaker' for my friend's Altec A7s (while he did 4 years in the Navy) which were carried into my basement by several friends. While my parents were upstairs, my friends and I blasted music in the basement and went to the backyard to indulge in some sonic enhancers.

What a great time that was in my life. It was party central in my home, especially during the day when no one was at home.

They were driven by a tubed Fisher receiver a friend let me borrow for a long period of time, although he got to hear his receiver many times

It was also at the time when great rock music was being recorded and released. Imagine hearing Live at Leeds for the first time with those Altecs!!!! It was to die for!

Long Live Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Phase can be trickier than that. Put on some consistent low-bass throbbing music, try at 0 and 180. Ideally you should hear one much louder and the other pretty quiet. If you can't tell a difference, the phase is in between, and that implies the crossover points should be fiddled with. For best results, highpass and lowpass might not be the same. REW could make a much more sophisticated measurement with some learning curve.

 

I don't have to imagine it, I did play Live at Leeds for the first time on my Altec's. I had my first pair of Altec A7's built when I was 16, back in 1971.

My two favorite "live" rock albums for reproducing the actual feeling of a live concert were Live at Leeds and Steppenwolf Live and Monster in particular.

The A7's play the bass on Grand Funk's "Red" album like being at a concert. Really strong and defined but effortlessly and that is without the sub.

Yes, the other speakers are Zu, Omen Definitions. I used to have a speaker A/B switch and switch between the Polk's with the 250-Watt Emotiva XPA-2 (Generation One). But I got tired of the harshness so I switched the Zu's to the Prima Luna, Prologue Five, with its KT88's, even then...

I keep most of the tube gear behind the TV. I went from SS to tubes on the A7's. For maximum effect, there are a pair of Rogue M-150 monoblocks behind the TV with a quad of KT88's in each of them.

I use different tube amplifiers with the Altec's, which have been restored and upgraded to three way speakers with the addition of JBL super-tweeters. Together with the USS1 sub, they are a full 4-Way horn loaded system. The A7's have custom ALK crossovers.

They don't sound like any other A7's on the planet (I have two other pair also).



I had a Line Magnetic 518iA integrated / power amplifier driving the A7's and with its 22-Watts, it can take you to full concert level volume.

No, you need to have a good size room to get the maximum effect from the A7's, but they do play well in smaller rooms and also come in a home version with the HF horn on the inside and covered in Walnut, which make for an improved (somewhat) WAF.

It's great that you got to hear the Altec's with a vintage tube receiver, most people only have heard them with SS electronics. Tubes make all of the difference in the world with highly sensitivity horn speakers. I have a couple of vintage tube integrated's and a Fischer 500C, that has been restored.

Long Live Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But they sound excellent with low power SET amps and Jazz!

Vocals are uncanningly realistic.

 

My sub only has a 0/180 switch. Both positions yield good results, with 0 delivering marginally more bass. Good it doesn't have one of those continuous adjustment knobs or I'd go crazy tweaking it.

 

That is called a polarity switch. The difference being that phase adjusts the timing of the sub by delaying the signal so many degrees of phase. Like moving the sub further away from the listener about a foot for each degree, depending on wavelength.
The polarity switch does not change the timing. It only inverts the polarity between positive and negative.
Not having a phase knob to adjust makes it more difficult to blend the signals cleanly at the crossover point. I find that once adjusted properly no more fiddling with the sub is required. If you find yourself fiddling with the sub to EQ the playback per album or per song then it isn't implemented right.

 

No; it's usually sub on or sub off. No fiddling with volume or crossover.

 

I thought same, its more of a polarity switch. As I posted earlier, reading up on phase helped me quite a bit. SVS told me set at zero, maybe they should say set at zero as starting point and then do some listening at different points on the dial. Problem is that music is fluid and changes, so doing with a single sine wave tone for me was better, I adjusted for the loudest point and then walked away. So far I am really liking what I am hearing.........

 

I know it flies in the face of "this is an audiophile adjustment, you MOST use it" knob, but I never found that they made much of a difference at either setting.

I have a setting on the Polk remote sub, but the commercial sub has no adjustments and it performs satisfactorily.

Different frequencies have different wavelengths. At a frequency of 80-Hz. the wavelength is 14', at 40-Hz. it is 28'.

Polarity is phasing, either 0° or 180°. What works perfectly for one frequency is not perfect at another frequency.

The correct phasing may work for room nodes which are more apparent at certain frequencies.