Surrounded On Sundays - 5.1/quad reviews and summaries

Yes that's a little frustrating. I really dislike it when they force you to buy the vinyl, etc....to get the SACD and/or bluray. Hopefully they will do a separate release for one of those in the future. I really like this title and would love to hear it in 5.1 but $150 is a little steep for me.

 

Yea a separate sacd, or bluray, and there is a good chance I would give it a go, but I'm not going to fly blind into $150

 

Too steep for me...n what would i do with the vinyl??? Not had a turntable in decades

 

The thing I don't get is that, if I am buying an album, why do I want the same album in three different formats?

If I am a dedicated stereo guy who buys vinyl, why would I want cd, or anything else?
If I am a dedicated 5.1 guy, why would I want anything else in there?

I get the impression that the market really doesn't understand its consumer base. So many albums have gone by the wayside for me, because I don't want the overpriced, overkill box, that is merely an attempt to bump the dollars up, with no regard for the actual content being of any use to most people.
The ones I have bought for the 5.1's, end up being slightly resented for the insult that their makeup is.

 

The vinyl on this one IS available separately, as is the CD. But not the bluray.

 

There's a thread on this album where several posters are complaining about the inclusion of a bluray that they can't play:

Gene Clark: “No Other” Deluxe Reissue, Nov 8

 

..... oh my

 

I am really enjoying this thread. such thoughtfull comments and reviews
To me Bitches Brew is an amazing experience in surround. You feel like you are in the studio surrounded by all the musicians. Hard to belivie it is a 69 recording. Highly recommended for any fussion fan

 

Mark. If ever there was an album you can blind buy with confidence, it's No Other. It is a true masterpiece. I can only imagine how spectacular it will sound in 5.1. Can't wait for my set to arrive!

 

Surrounded On Sundays - 5.1/quad reviews and summaries

Don't forget to vote for this Sunday's albums

 

Love the album, but the price of the set is way beyond what I'm willing to pay.
I've recently bought the 40th/50th anniversary editions of the first ELO album and The Moody Blues Days of future... - mainly cos of this thread. Both sets include everything you could need for around a tenner! Makes the 4AD set look like daylight robbery.

 

Right, I've got a growing list of albums that I really like where the only way to get the multichannel version is to get a box set with a bunch of other stuff I don't want for an exorbitant price:

Roxy Music s/t
Chris Squire - Fish Out of Water
Beatles: White Album, Abbey Road

Also worth mentioning:
I passed on the Aqualung 40th anniversary edition which went over a hundred bucks, but picked up the 45th anniversary edition fives years later for a much more reasonable price. Also, the Bluray from the Dream Theater Distance Over Time box set is going to be sold separately. Not sure what the price will be, the the DR numbers are supposed to much better.

 

Surrounded On Sundays - 5.1/quad reviews and summaries

Don't forget to vote for this Sunday's albums
We currently I have a draw in the votes. So if you haven't voted yet, please do and we'll see where we end up. I may well get time for all four, but that is totally unpredictable.

 

I haven't voted in recent weeks ... it seems unfair to the selections that don't get picked!

 

Lol
It's weird, I like all these albums, but I still find myself hoping that certain things get picked ... yet feel bad for the ones being ignored ...
I think my personal connection to my music is a little too deep

 

So, my playback issues turned out to be a problem $250 could solve. A Sony UDP-800m2 is indeed a reasonable substitute for an Opp0 203. Well, except for the fact that it won't play the A Broken Frame DVD I just got because it isn't region coded for the US. I'm pretty sure the Oppo is impervious to region coding. The disc drive in my desktop had to turn japanese just so I could rip it.

As a result, I've got my entire multichannel online again and another round of thread catchup is in order. In addition to the seven that I couldn't play before, there are another five that I have acquired in the last month or so. As before, I'm going to quickly rate them for the music (i.e the stereo version) before comparing their multichannel incarnations:

Tier 1: These are in my top 10% (among the three thousand something titles I have on my shelves)

Beck, Jeff - Blow By Blow
Fleetwood Mac - Rumours

Roxy Music - Avalon

Tier 2: Not one of my faves, but they still get some play
Allman Brothers Band - Live At Fillmore East
Davis, Miles - Bitches Brew (this is a new album for me, so I'll tentatively put it here)
Fagen, Donald - The Nightfly
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Southern Surroundings (their first two albums have been displaced to tier 3 by this)
Queen - A Night At The Opera
Who - Quadrophenia

Tier 3: I have it, it's an artist or band I like, but usually I'm going to pick something else to listen to.

Jethro Tull - Minstrel In The Gallery
Moody Blues - A Question Of Balance
Rush - Moving Pictures

So now on to the next question; is the multichannel version better?

Allman Brothers Band - Live At Fillmore East. Sounds great, but I'm not sure the multichannel is better. I think there's a fundamental difference between remixng a studio album vs. a live album. With a studio album, the sound stage is completely artificial anyway, so it really is up the mixer to create one. But with a recording of a live performance there really is a stage, and a good stereo recording can reproduce it rather well. So messing with a recording that was originally intended for stereo isn't necessarily such a hot idea. I have many live multichannel recordings that sound fantastic, but they were recorded with home theater in mind in the first place (e.g. Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scott's and Steven Wilson Home Invasion). I'd recommend one of those before picking this up.

Beck, Jeff - Blow By Blow. No, it isn't better. Probably worse, in fact. Now I know it'd because the channel assignments are messed up. When I get my main system back I 'm going to use the multichannel outputs and inputs to rewire the channel connections. I'll report back later.

Davis, Miles - Bitches Brew. The packaging is a pretty wild. Now I know what a 7" sleeve looks like. It's going to have to go on the bluray shelves instead of the CD shelves where most of my other SACDs are. There's an album sticker to put on the back of my pickup truck , plus it looks like they are trying to sell me a 1970's SQ system. On the down side, fishing the discs out of the sleeve ain't all that easy, but that won't be a problem after I rip em. Anyway, to get a stereo baseline I first played Miles Runs The Voodoo Down from my Tier 3 CD compilation. Wow. The quad mix sounds soooo much better. This might be headed for Tier 1.

Fagen, Donald - The Nightfly. OK, I figured out how to switch between stereo and multichannel on my new player and tried out both. Both versions sound great but different. I definitely prefer the vocal clarity of the stereo version, but the multichannel mix makes the synthesizes shimmer, which is especially cool on I.G.Y. and The Goodbye Look. A great disc in any case.

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours. The surround mix isn't all that much different. The Chain and Gold Dust Woman are the surround highlights. I think the ballads are perhaps better in stereo.

Jethro Tull - Minstrel In The Gallery. I didn't any JT albums after A Passion Play, largely because they all starting sounding the same. But I picked up all the anniversary sets as they came out. Ian pretty much gets the center channel to himself while the rest of the band plays in stereo. Strings, synths and a few sound effects make use of the back speakers. It's a pretty good formula. I have no problem saying the 5.1 mix is superior. Hey, it's Steven Wilson.

Lynyrd Skynyrd - Southern Surroundings. It's a good thing this is a compilation. I don't think I would have plunked down thirty dollars for any of their individual albums. Anyway, the sound quality is uneven, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of soundstaging. That Smell sounds pretty good though, and Free Bird is passable - that's all that really matters, right?

Moody Blues - A Question Of Balance. I bought this over ten years ago because it was cheap for a multichannel sacd at the time, and I kinda like the Moodies, plus my wife likes em. The label says 5.1 and Mark's review says they were "manipulated" from quad mixes. But, it still pretty much sounds like a quad mix. to me - not much action from the center speaker Strings and backing vocals make the most use of the back speakers. Quite pleasant, really. Question is the surround highlight.

Queen - A Night At The Opera. I was a Queen fan from the first album, and I played this lots when it first came up. Not so much the last twenty years, but yes I wanted the 5.1. The main question here is how does BoRhap sound? If it's good then the rest doesn't really matter. If it's bad, well then the rest doesn't really matter. It's just OK, which is disappointing. Given the material, I was hoping for spectacular.

Roxy Music - Avalon. This is an ethereal album to begin with, and it's even more ethereal in surround. Just gorgeous. One of my favorite albums and one my favorite surround discs. Bryan Ferry - Boys and Girls is also really really good.

Rush - Moving Pictures. If three guys can build a wall of sound, then they can do it even better with three speakers instead of two. At least that's what the mixing strategy seems to be. Some percussion and synthesizer gets sent to the back, but it's mostly the front three speakers. Plus, Lifeson gets a few back licks in on Vital Signs. I like it.

Who - Quadrophenia. Daltrey gets most of the center channel, the wind and the sea get the back channels. Too bad there isn't more wind and sea because those are the best parts.

 

It's about useage. Lucky you, you have an environment to experience surround, and the patience to focus on it. You may want an "easier" format to take with you to other people's systems, or to the car. Or, you may have an artist here who desires to get a better master into the hands of the consumer, but determines more than one format is the way to justify going back to the masters for a little more work, in the first place. Or somebody who doesn't think the surround mix will fly unless it's a part of a box whose sticker price will pay for the project to get into the pipeline.

All different reasons to not just assume, your needs are the only reason this product even exists in the first place.

 

I get why you might want both a CD and a bluray. Or a CD and vinyl. But the market intersection between vinyl and bluray is practically null, so putting them both in the same really expensive box is idiocy. If you need them both to justify remastering then you need to deliver two different products

 

Of course it's idiocy. It's also a way to get more money out of a customer, which justifies the decision to do it.

It's the same thing I've been saying about an album being a surround mix, and a hi-res mix; maybe half will buy for one reason and another half will buy for only the other, but if that justifies the project in the first place, it reaffirms that both customers need each other.

 

That's a very good point ... I've never thought of it that way.

 

But I'm not going to buy the $100+ box set. So, if they need me to justify the price of the project, it's not working. If you are only selling to people who don't care about the difference between $40 and $140 then I guess that doesn't matter.

 

I'm totally with you on the $100+ box sets, in most cases. A good example is the upcoming 50th anniversary box set of the Stones’ ‘Let It Bleed.’ No, not the *already issued* 5oth anniversary edition, this next one is the new, super deluxe 5oth edition.

And, of course, it’s cramming all the formats into the same box, for around $140. The swine are essentially saying, “we didn’t milk you enough for the lightweight 50th anniversary edition, so we’re springing another, more robust edition, on you. Surprise!” And just like some other examples you guys are referencing, fans just interested in ONE format over another are forced to buy them all. What a horrible idea.

At least the Beatles are more-or-less doing it right (up for debate, I know) by offering CDs and BluRay in one box. And vinyl in another. That makes sense.

 

Totally in agreement with you, Galactus2.

I was of course, also concerned when all this deluxe-box-mania started, companies would go this way. Bottom line though is, it's the will of the marketplace. At the very least at least the remixes, the remasters and the surround products are getting into people's hands if they're willing to support them. When the support stops, the companies have to determine f0r themselves whether to blame the customers for not supporting them, or blame themselves for asking to much of them. And act accordingly. If they misinterpret what the marketplace tells them, that's on them.

 

Imaginary Day

Studio album by
Pat Metheny Group
Released October 7, 1997
Recorded Spring 1997
Studio Right Track Recording, New York City
Genre Jazz fusion
Length 63:49
Label Warner Bros.
Producer Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Steve Rodby

maginary Day is a jazz album by the Pat Metheny Group, released in 1997 by Warner Bros. Records. The album overall was strongly inspired by world musicfrom Iran and Indonesia, and won the 1999 Grammy Award for Best Contemporary Jazz Album. The song "The Roots of Coincidence" won a Grammy award for Best Rock Instrumental Performance; critic Richard Ginnell of Allmusic described the song as a dramatic departure for the group: "[an] out-and-out rockpiece with thrash metal and techno-pop episodes joined by abrupt jump cuts."

• Pat Metheny – acoustic and electric guitars, guitar synthesizer, 42-string Pikasso guitar
• Lyle Mays – piano, keyboards
• Steve Rodby – acoustic and electric bass, cello
• Paul Wertico – drums
• David Blamires – vocals, guitar, trumpet, violin, mellophone, recorder
• Mark Ledford – vocals, flugelhorn, trumpet
• Dave Samuels – percussion
• Glen Velez – percussion
• Don Alias – percussion
• Mino Cinelu – percussion

Production[edit]

• Pat Metheny, Lyle Mays, Steve Rodby – producers
• Mastered by Ted Jensen at Sterling Sound, New York City

1. "Imaginary Day" 10:11
2. "Follow Me" 5:56
3. "Into the Dream" (Metheny) 2:27
4. "A Story Within the Story" 8:01
5. "The Heat of the Day" 9:44
6. "Across the Sky" ("Across the Sky" lasts for 4:46; hidden intro for "The Roots of Coincidence" directly follows) 5:13
7. "The Roots of Coincidence" 7:48
8. "Too Soon Tomorrow" (Metheny) 5:45
9. "The Awakening" 9:28
--------------------------------------------------
Pat Metheny has been around for quite a while. I first became aware of him through his recording and touring with Joni Mitchell. I was probably first aware of this guy being a pretty decent musician when I heard the performance on Shadows and Light.
I late purchased one of his albums, American Garage, and I enjoyed it, but i strangely never explored much of his work. I know he and Jaco Pastorius had a fairly close musical relationship, and i need to check out more Jaco also.
Metheny like Jaco wanted to increase the amount of melody in the jazz music of his era, and from what I have heard, I think he accomplished that.
This album really comes courtesy of @Jimbino who suggested it (thanks mate), and we have discussed Pat a couple of times on the forum, and I figured this was the one to get.
I did have a very quick snippet listen, and I am enthusiastic this morning to get into a proper listen, because the snippets were excellent.

Amazon have the Dvd-a available from about $80
https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Da.../ref=tmm_dva_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Ebay from about $20 (be aware there is a dvd video of a concert by the same name)
imaginary day dvd audio | eBay
Discogs from about $11
Pat Metheny Group - Imaginary Day

5.1 mix Rob Eaton
Produced by Pat Metheny, David Oakes and Rob Eaton
Assistant engineer for 5.1 mix Pete Karam
Mastered by Ted Jensen

Imaginary Day
We start with a very slightly oriental music theme. Cymbal and synth swells in the rears. Metheny is playing a fretless classical guitar, which I had never previously heard of to be honest.
The sound is beautiful.
We have a really nice double bass, that is reinforced nicely with the sub.
Excellent use of dynamics.
Some really nice placement of wind instruments around the field. Flutes and pan pipe sounds rather than horns.
We have hats left rear.
Metheny breaks into a slightly distorted lead on this beautiful sounding guitar and effects sends also slide to the rears.
The keys lay a bed in the rears also.
The music is engaging and really very beautiful.
We have subtle modulations, without changing key, and they are very effective.
We get a series of sections broken up by a really nice held section, each time. It is very effective.
The surround is full and immersive, and the recording and mastering here is excellent. Top quality all round.

Follow Me
Here we have a smooth groove, and the drums are up front with some sends to the right rear. Piano right side.
Keys front.
We get various synth bits left and right.
This is very lush sounding, and again a nice full 5.1 here.

Into The Dream
This is a solo 42 string picasso guitar, and it sounds amazing.
I assume we have some directional mic's on specific sections of the guitar, as the mix is very effective, and from all angles.

A Story Within A Story
This starts more in a traditional seventies jazz kind of way.
Sitar guitar left rear. Percussion all around, keys all around.
Another really nice sound bed.
They have done some interesting things with the drums on this album.
Metheny delivers a fairly long, yet very satisfying lead break.
Trumpet pops up in the middle of my head.
A nice glissando effect through the rears to finish.

The Heat of The Day
We get some claps right side. Keys either side. Percussion right.
We have an urgent musical attitude, that seems somewhat reminiscent of some south American traditional dances.
There is a swell of music and sound, that then dies right down, with the rhythmic handclaps still there, but gentle, with some really nice piano taking the lead.
The piano sound about twenty feet wide. Far right keys, on the far right, moving back to the midrange in the middle.
Synth break with a somewhat trumpet sound.
Excellent mix and sound, with very engaging music... a lot to recommend about this album here.

Across the Sky
Very mellow tentative start here.
Synth swells either side. Guitar up front.
Cymbal swell left.
Very delicate piece here. Metheny is the focus at the start here with some really nice guitar. It has a really nice mid rangey tone like a good semi acoustic.
Meanwhile the band swells in and out around us a couple of times, and then stays at a nice even feel for the bulk of the rest of the track.

The Roots Of Coincidence
A musical swell, that then moves into an almost kraftwerk type rhythm and structure. Metheny has a more harsh almost Zappa type guitar sound here.... well zappa meets Dick Dale or something.
This is uptempo, and quite different from the rest of the tracks so far.
There are sounds coming from everywhere and a kick takes over making the sub do some real work.
The instruments, particularly the guitar, seem to have a certain amount of license to move in this track.
A lot of layers could be creating that effect too .... I am rather hung over this morning.. so that could be part of it too.
Another surge of pumping madness in a techno kind of zone. That disappears into some gentle layered ambience.
Some very nice use of the soundfield across this album, but particularly here.

Too Soon Tomorrow
We start here with a gentle melancholy. The piano and guitar holding court, with some synth swells in the rears.

The Awakening
We start with a very folky feel here, a steady rolling rhythm that enjoys some really nice folky wind instruments on either side adding some nice colour.
The piano has some nice sections here, and they get supported well by percussion left, those wind instruments, and also a synth sounding somewhat like a wind instrument... these come from all around us, and we quiet down a little about halfway through with, the percussion gently holding in there on the left. Again the piano has that really wide mix, that has a very natural feel reaching from front left to rear right.
At this point I realise that the whole folky thing has washed away out of the track.
Now we have a kind of dramatic soundtrack type section that built out of the piano lead break.
This then morphs back into the folky section. An excellent musical journey here in the comfort of the surround environment .

This is an album of textures, and has a journey-like effect with a nice flow between the songs, and some fairly distinct styles, that merge somewhat into their own style.
The mix is certainly immersive, and the levels are balanced. There are a lot of layers to these tracks, and they lend themselves to the soundfield very well.
Anyone familiar with Metheny, anyone that enjoys a smooth jazz sound and style, is probably going to love this.
Although there are obviously lead breaks from various instruments, and although this is in essence a guitar players album, we have an album where no one instrument is the primary focus. It's a level playing field and everyone gets to run with the ball at some point, more importantly though it is fluid. We don't generally have a sudden bursting into "my bit now", the leads are intrinsically built into the structure of the tracks, and often work as prompts for the next section of a track.
Very enjoyable album on every level.

 

Coming back to Five Miles Out by Mike Oldfield, I'm surprised that it passes muster in this thread because the changes from the original are absolutely horrendous. Just listening to it again in the hope that my experience of coming back to it is similar to that of @mark winstanley but no. The mix/edit of “Taurus II” is truly ghastly with compression all over the mix robbing the drums of any impact. Then the version of “Family Man” cuts the drumless opening, substituting metronomic drumming and dramatically reducing the volume of the electric guitar until the solo break.

Over two minutes are missing from the start of “Orabidoo” (Wikipedia has the wrong information here) and the instrumental balances are changed in a way that for me ruins many of that track's most memorable transitions. For some reason Oldfield seemed to think that speech samples that were almost subliminal in the original needed to be heard at full volume, although to be fair “compress everything” approach does mean that the ballad at the end is heard at a proper volume rather than as it is on the original where it is distant and bathed in reverb.

On “Mount Teidi” the hi-hat is horribly prominent to an irritating degree, though the drums set up a cheerful clatter in the climax of the song. On the title track the vocals sound painfully constrained in the centre channel, which is astonishing given that there are multiple “characters” speaking and the original used the full stereo field.

On top of the radical and unattractive changes, the multichannel mix really adds nothing. The rears are under-utilised except for a very few moments. To be honest, I'd class this as probably the worst and most tasteless screw-up I've ever heard in 5.1 ... the absolute poster boy for how not to do it.