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Surrounds for Cornwall IVs

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by theaveragecoffee, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. theaveragecoffee

    theaveragecoffee Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    By the way, thanks for all the further suggestions. I'm definitely mulling them over here...

    I had one another, maybe batty idea: there's something on Klipsch's site called the Klipsch Heritage Theater Bar. It's a LCR sound bar in the Heritage line, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with it enough to know if it could be wired as a center channel only? And how it sounds?

    Here's a link to it:

    Heritage Theater Bar - High End Sound Bar | Klipsch

    Maybe it's a foolish idea, considering it's designed to be a LCR. But it's definitely intriguing in terms of it keeping within the Heritage line's timbre.
     
  2. CoryG85

    CoryG85 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    It's funny I literally just noticed that Heritage Theater Bar on their website like 3 days ago. Made me think it was a new product but it came out in 2018! And it was pretty damn expensive. Like over $2k!

    I haven't heard anything about it, which kinda makes me think it was a dud.

    I doubt it could be wired up as a passive center channel...

    I don't think it has a place in a true hifi system, to be honest. But I bet it would kick ass hooked up to a TV for casual use. Perhaps compared to other soundbars.

    EDIT: apparently it is a passive system. Meaning it relies on external amplification
     
    theaveragecoffee likes this.
  3. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Seriously, people are suggesting large and overly expensive center channel speakers for your room.

    I would get a 2" piece of black foam and set it on your credenza. Spend all of $129 and buy the Polk CSi-A6. This will provide isolation from the credenza. Later, you could install a small shelf below the TV. The CSi-A6 measures
    • 24-1/16"W x 7-13/16"H x 14-1/4"D.
    I think you would fine with a center channel speaker sitting on your credenza.

    If you look back at the wide shot of my listening room on the first page, it is a little larger than a 20 x 20 square foot room, I estimate around 450 sq. ft. In all.

    I have large Polk LSiM707's which are 100-lb towers, powered by a 250-Watt power amp. The center channel is also driven by the mono version of that power amp. I can listen to music or HT at any volume level I wish and still have clear concise sound from the center channel.

    In a HT arrangement, the center channel is aimed directly at your head. Believe me when I tell you that you don't want an overly bright center channel speaker. What you want is a speaker that can clearly reproduce vocal dialog.

    These are my Klipsch WF-35 rear tower speakers. This is the right HT rear channel. (On the floor, are Polk Monitor 60 Series II towers, which were my original rear speakers. they are both still in the room but not hooked up.)

    [​IMG]

    Below would be the left rear rear HT corner.

    [​IMG]

    Typical 7.1 surround sound systems use side wall mounted surrounds. You photo seems to indicate that the side where the photo was taken is open?

    If the sofa is not up against the wall behind it and you have room, I find that using tower speakers while in a 5.1 surround sound environment is far better than just small surrounds. This works better when listening to music also.

    Contrary to popular opinion, you do not have to have exact matching speakers, though it is OK if you do. In your case, this is not an option. Modern Klipsch speakers have nothing in common sound wise, with their Heritage speaker line. Going with all Klipsch is not going to result in any kind of system matching.

    This. By the way, is a good thing, which is the reason for owning heritage Cornwall's in the first place.
     
    theaveragecoffee likes this.
  4. jeffmackwood

    jeffmackwood Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa
    I addressed a number of those questions - perhaps indirectly - in my original post in this thread.

    Multichannel (5.1) SACD can have significant information in all six channels. How much so does vary from disc to disc. Some "multichannel" offerings are 3.0 (RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence - for example); others are 4.0 (mostly re-issues of Quad recordings). A good number are 5.0 (such as classical string quartets, etc.). Regardless, any serious fan of multichannel SACDs is going to have many in his or her collection that are truly 5.1, where all speakers (and sub(s)) need to pull their weight in order to faithfully reproduce their contents.

    That's the source. As for the gear...

    Yes you can run "no sub" and presumably most processors will then forego bass management (if all the other speakers are set to "small") or redirect to the F L/R mains if those are set to "large" - including the contents of the ".1" channel. And while I really do love the Cornwalls, their deep bass falls off rapidly just where they could be called upon for some of that redirected ".1" content.

    Proper set up and integration of a sub, or subs, is a whole other discussion not related to the thread's original post - which was directed towards 5.1 SACD.

    The use of stereo subs is also a separate discussion, and, by chance, one that I addressed in this thread.

    I hope that properly addresses your questions.

    Jeff
     
  5. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Actually, was referring to the Mac - that is what will be hooked to the speakers, and you'll have to switch at the Mac between where the sound source is coming from - your 2 channel (Mac) or AVR. Many integrateds have an Ext In that allow this. Some don't. It's key to sharing the mains.

    Pre-outs on the AVR to Ext In (or whatever they call it on the Mac), switch at the Mac depending if listening to music or watching movies. The "unity gain" feature I mentioned would be on the Mac, allowing you to control volume on the AVR while watching movies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
  6. bobdog

    bobdog Forum Resident

    A lot of comments related to Home Theater. From your original post it seems the focus is surround music right? For a lot of surround discs matching the surround speakers is just as important as matching the fronts. surround placement is also important. From your picture it appears that placement may be difficult. As for speakers I think Heresys at the minimum. You have a great 2 channel system. You are one third or even less of the way to a 5.1 system as good. Is it worth it considering the limited number of titles available. 5.1 also compromises 2 channel many times because of the awful sound of so many AVRs and processors.
     
  7. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict ___The Enforcer___

    Not if you separate them, and have 2 channel with a dedicated amp (like his Mac), and 5.1 with AVR (like his Denon). This is what I've been trying to help the OP configure, you get the best of both worlds that way. He already owns both, now to just share the Cornwalls with both experiences.
     
  8. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I want to point out that I listen to music through my system also. This is a primary reason that I use towers for the rear channels. 5.1 channel SACD's are fine if you have a nice collection of them.

    You can also get music on Blu-ray in 5.1 channel. Regardless of the source, there is still the matter of how much range you are going to need and use for the center and surround speakers. This is usually related to the size of the speaker itself.

    There are slim design towers that do not take up large footprints. Klipsch and Polk have many of these. As in my photos, you also have the option to raise them off the floor by placing them on a credenza, if that is a possibility.

    The majority of people by far use small side and rear surrounds for HT and cut back the lower end severely with bass management. However, there is really far more information going into the side/rear channels than they realize. They will never know because they never hear it.

    This is a problem with most side/rear surround speakers sold for specific home theater use. Of course there are exceptions. I find the side surrounds are usually the more robust and the rear speakers are smaller and more limited if those speakers are designed for modern 7.1 surround. The side surrounds can easily be used for the rear channels, instead of the intended rear channel speakers. They also tend to be bidirectional. can reflect and diffuse sound if mounted on the rear wall.

    Some speakers worth considering are the Design Series from Era / Peachtree. Before Peachtree was Peachtree and selling amps, they entered the Business by selling compact HT speakers. Most people are not aware of this because the company was way under the radar when they first started in business. The company went under the name of Signal Path.

    Era was focused on a niche HT market. It was directed at urban dwellers who wanted high quality HT, while living in the more confined spaces of apartments. The Design Series of speakers are otherwise known as their "DS" line. Some of these transitioned into the Peachtree product line. While most have never paid attention to them, they are very well made speakers and were designed by Michael Kelly of Ariel Acoustics.

    This series was the D3, D4 and D5 bookshelf size speakers. The D3 being the smallest and the D5 being the largest.

    All three series included a center channel speaker. Here is link to a 6-Moons review of the D4 and D5. For reference, the D4 is 10" tall.

    [​IMG]

    Don't let the size fool you, these are serious little speakers. The drivers are from the D4. taken from a John Atkinson review in Stereophile.

    [​IMG]

    The D5 originally sold for $1k. I have multiple pairs of these speakers, including the D3's and their center channel speakers.

    The D4's rear port is deliberately designed for close wall mounting and already has the hardware installed. Keeping in mind that these are designed to be front or rear satellites and are nor frequency handicapped.

    [​IMG]
    While these speakers are no longer available as new, they can be found at very reasonable prices on eBay, usually in pristine condition. People who buy them are discerning buyers who are not prone to mistreating their equipment.

    This is the D3 center channel.

    [​IMG]

    The drivers that Era uses in their center channel are the same drivers that are used in that series. Any of these center channel speakers would be compact enough to work well with your credenza.

    The D3 satellites measure just over 7 inches tall, 5 inches deep, and less than 5 inches wide.

    The D3 LCR has similar height and depth, but is wider at about 12 inches.

    This is a complete D5 system.

    [​IMG]

    They also made two compact tower speakers, the D10 and the D14. I have a pair of D14's.

    Something else to consider. Decent center channel speakers are generally far more robust than dedicated side/rear surrounds. The CSi-A6 has quite a broad frequency response.
    • frequency response 55-26,000 Hz (-3dB)
    Besides being an excellent center channel, it would make fine rear surrounds in your system. They can be mounted to the wall vertically on either side of your sofa. A pair can also be mounted to the rear wall in a horizontal orientation.

    Take a look at the photo, the CSi-A6 has one flat side and one angled side, so it can be directed up or down, depending on its position in relation to the TV.

    This also means that it can be mounted on the ceiling behind the sofa so that it is pointing down at an angle.

    Using a center channel speaker in this manner will give you a more robust solution than using a small box type speaker. Having two 6.5" drivers in a slim profile cabinet would be less obtrusive than having a larger box attached to the wall. You would only have two slim cabinets that would be ceiling mounted.

    The cost for all three would come to a whole $417! And, they are in real wood veneers as are the Peachtree / Era speakers. Most less expensive speakers are vinyl and most surround sound speakers are in black vinyl only.

    Just some thoughts...
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022

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