Sutherland 20/20 Phono Pre- Why it Sounds so Good?

Did you end up keeping it? What was the verdict?

 

I wondered, if this could be (one of) the reason(s) that I like to run my Aperion Supertweeters as of 12-14kHz? If you are not in for a new phono stage and like to enjoy smooth highs, it could be an alternative. They add air and soundstage, particularly for classical music and older jazz.

 

I kept it and eventually planned to put the stock power supplies back in to do a comparison but haven't done so. My impressions are that it sounds better and that I did not need to quantify it.

 

Awesome, thanks man. I’m upgrading my phono at some point down the road and the 20/20 is in the top 3 along with the Moon 310 and the Goldnote PH10. Gonna be a tough choice. I have a local place I can demo the Moon, but nowhere else to demo the others.

 

FWIW I’ve never heard of someone returning a Sutherland, unless it’s to move to the next one up the line.

 

Dynavector 20X2 low

 

My open-box 20/20 w/ LPS just arrived.

The Benchmark preamp/DAC and power amp that I'm planning on using is now on back order until sometime in August. Curious what folks' thoughts are about my throwing this in the mix with my 80wpc Denon AVR receiver until then. Obviously, the Denon is integrated all-in-one solid state. Also still using a cheapy Ortofon cart on a brand spankin' new SL-1200GR, so there's that.

Frankensteining in the apocalypse.

Speakers are Klipsch Forte III's for reference.

 

I'll bet the 20/20 and the GR is a killer combo. The Denon is def a weak point but can't imagine it's nearly weak enough for the rest of your system to not put a big smile on your face.

 

Questions for 20/20 owners and/or folks who know about grounding/electrical isolation, etc: is it normal that I hear audible noise/static when picking up the tone arm off of the cradle and vice versa when lifting the tone arm off of the record back onto the cradle? Even pressing a finger to the top of the head shell produces noise/static. Once the stylus is on the record, the noise goes away - even when the record isn't rotating.

I have the gain at 40db and load at 47.5k (the lowest settings) and have a cheapy Ortofon Super OM-10 MM cart (temporary).

The LPS is as far away from the receiver and TT as possible at 3'. There's no room for it to go anywhere else. It's sitting on the wood-plank floor, 1' from the power strip that it's plugged into. The power strip also has a modem, router, and floor fan plugged into it. I noticed that, when turning the fan on or off there is a small electrical pop in the speaker it's sitting next to (but not the other speaker, which is about 9' away). When I move the floor fan to an outlet on the other side of the system, near the other speaker the speaker picks up a brief noise/pop when turning it on.

I've checked the ground at the Sutherland and at the TT, and they're both snug as a bug in a rug.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

I'm hoping you're right!

 

I'd give one a sh

Not that I have an answer but just to be clear (it may help someone else answer properly): You only hear these "pops" when you switch the fan from off to on or on to off? Once the fan is running, the popping stops?

 

Thank you for your question. I ran the test again, and the distinctive 'pop' happens when the fan is switched from running (on) to off. My ears hear nothing when turning the fan on.

Also, when the fan is closest to the speaker that's located closest to the Sutherland TT, and components, the pop is definitely louder in that speaker. So, moving the fan further away from the system, to the other side, while the 'pop' is definitely audible in that speaker, it's definitely not as loud.

If I move the fan to a plug 9' away from 'far' speaker - which is 14' (diagonal) from the components, there is no longer an audible pop.


Best,

 

Just pulled the Sutherland and LPS out altogether and plugged the signal from the TT directly back into the Denon. Pressing on or moving the head shell from/at the cradle still produces some noise, but is then gone immediately once placed on the record.

I then moved the fan back to its original position by the stereo rack and plugged it back into the original power strip. Turning it on then off no longer produced an audible pop.

 

Do you have to plug a fan in the same outlets as your audio equipment?

Patient: Doc it hurts when I do this.
Doctor: Don't do that and it won't hurt.

jk

 

Initially, yes - that is how I discovered the 'pop' when I turned the fan off, while the system was still powered on and connected to a/c power.

However, I then conducted a test and moved it to its own plug (nothing else in that outlet) 10' away from its original position (3' from the other speaker) and noticed a 'pop' in that speaker (only) when turning off the fan. Eventually I moved the fan 14' away from the system, to another power strip; turned it on then off and no audible 'pop'. So, the further I moved the fan from the system, the quieter the 'pop' - then eventually no 'pop'.

Last, while conducting all of these tests, I had the cover off of the 20/20. Maybe the cover case isolates the 20/20? ** this last point/question may be the 'ah-ha' moment for EE's, but I'm not a EE so please excuse my electrical engineering ignorance. I appreciate your grace **


Best,

 

You should not hear the hum that you describe..

Do you have your tt properly grounded?

 

Yes, it's solidly grounded from the TT to the Sutherland. I double check both terminations.

 

Try moving the ground wire from the Sutherland to your main amp

 

If the fan only introduces a noise transitioning from on to off, if you don't otherwise hear any noise through the phono caused by running the fan, then you really have no problem. Just turn the gain (volume) down on your amp before turning off the fan.

 

I know I'm late to the party on your grounding issue but...

Tom's right, try grounding tt to sutherland then tt to your preamp then try grounding to both with an extra piece of wire. I get a pop when I turn on the ceiling fan in my living room. Most plugs and lights are on the same circuit in a given room with lots of noise. With the Little Loco Trans-impedance preamp I use, nothing is grounded from the TT.

Another thing you could try as a test. Use an extension cord from a totally different circuit with a outlet strip. Your kitchen or bathroom will be on a different circuit.

The static when you touch the tonearm is fairly common but I think figuring out the grounding will help. Also, some tonearms are grounded and some are not. Rega for example I believe are.

 

Hi Avanti. My gear is as follows:
Raven Audio Blackhawk SE integrated (tube rolled)
VPI Scout 2, Soundsmith The Voice cart (medium compliance)
GrahamSlee ERA Gold V phono pre with PSU-1 power supply
Joseph Audio RM 33LE 2.5 way floorstanding speakers

I am wondering if you have heard the Graham Slee ERA Gold V and can compare it to the Sutherland 20/20 that has caught my eye? I borrowed their new Accession MM and in my two weeks with it wasn't hearing enough difference to justify buying it although those that have heard both find the Accession superior. I love My ERA Gold but am getting upgraditis and wanted your thoughts. Thanks in advance.

Dan.

 

sorry never heard the GS but their rep is more for MM carts. the 20 20 excels more for low output MCc.

 

Contact Music Direct they have a return policy in case you don't like it.

M~

 

Can you let me know if you’re still happy with the OPA627’s? If so, where did you buy them from and if possible, can you send a link. I see a few different ones at Mouser.

 

I did enjoy the 627s and left them in the PH3D when I sold it. The new owner was going to use them even though I also included the 134s. I purchased the PH3D used and it came with the 627s so I can't help on the specifics of that opamp other than I think they are single opamps versus double. Ron Sutherland is very responsive so he may be able to give you a recommendation on which OPA627 to use.

 

Just as a FYI, and for those here who might own the PHD. It too like the PH3D can be upgraded with OPA627, replacing the OPA134PA at two locations on the board, U7 and U10. This mod has Ron's blessings.

I believe what Ron would recommend for either, would be the Texas Instruments OPA627 from someone like Digikey.