Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rstamberg, Nov 24, 2015.
I bet he does it on his own music though. It's pretty polished.
Well, that's up to him. If he wants to digitally polish up his own performances, that's his decision.
I mention it because digital editing was being discussed in the context of creating music, not remixing it.
Sure, but this really is the shortcoming of my point. It's not made clear to anyone the process. I have played into boxes that actually quantize on the fly. It's really weird to hear on headphones.
The bottom line is that an album recorded onto magnetic tape, mixed to another tape, then transferred to vinyl IS A WAY OF DOING THINGS.
It has special requirements and has as feel to it when played back either off tape or vinyl. It will feel and sound different if a computer is never involved at any point in the process.
There is a great history of recordings that were done this way. A lot of historic albums that are holding up quite well over time. It's a different process for the musicians, at the mixing console and mastering…. not to forget the experience of the listener.
Hand carved vs machine lathed. There is a difference. Not necessarily more precise. Sometimes it's just an appreciation. "This piece was hand carved out of teak wood in 18th century China. It's valued upon it's time and place and the quality of the craftsmanship".
"This other piece here was created recently using state of the art 3D rendering. It has a different value for different reasons".
As far as Wilson's respect for keeping everything intact, I can only take someone's word on that. I don't know that for fact with direct and personal knowledge.
The point being that in the old days, that question didn't even enter the equation. There was no wondering, pondering, suspicion, or examination.
I listened to some of the complex metal you posted. It does sound really good for that genre. I do mean that. But comparing the Opeth guitarist to what Howe was doing on Topographic Oceans…. I don't even know what to say.
You could make 100 edits and punch-ins and add dozens of overdubs in a piece of music recorded to tape, and you could record an entirely live and untouched performance to digital.
Yes, it's easier to make changes in the digital realm, but being recorded to tape is no guarantee that an album is "organic" or devoid of "trickery" or whatever other ideas about old vs. new records people have.
What "complex metal" did you listen to?
Oh, and I never compared anyone to Steve Howe.
What I can't understand are the people clamoring not just for a surround mix but who seem to want a stereo remix.
I'm no expert on this album's various releases, so maybe some haven't been so great, but the original UK vinyl is positively amazing. I would not change anything and the production is amongst the finest sounding albums I own.
I love the stereo remixes. With the clarity and separation of instruments that Wilson achieves, I always hear little things that I've missed the first 1,000 times I've listened to an album.
That said, I always end up reverting to the original stereo mixes (usually the flat transfers provided as part of the Wilson set) once the novelty wears off. There's no attempt here (as there was with the Genesis remixes) to pretend that the original stereo mixes never happened.
...Not to mention oodles of bonus tracks, liner notes and nice packaging that has come with all SW's Yes remixes.
I usually still go back to the original mixes though myself.
I sure hope so.
That's great. But I was talking about some comments that seem to suggest there is something wrong with the original mix and it needs "fixing."
Based on the version I own, I can't agree.
Was this related to sound quality/mastering or content/cutting "unnecessary" parts?
I disagree on both counts when it comes to Tales.
I love the original sound and mix of the vinyl too. I don't have a digital version that sounds as good (I don't download files). So I would love to have one of the packages that Steve Wilson puts together, with a flat transfer of the original mix, a new remix to have a different experience with, and additional material. Love the Blu-rays they've put out.
Just perusing the thread there seemed to be comments from some about how this could maybe finally enable them to enjoy Tales, and comments about the original mix lacking. I'm not referring to the discussion of parts being cut. After the criticism Steven Wilson received over that with some of his ELP work (some missing multis instigated this, iirc), I don't see that happening.
Personally, I have bought some of these Steven Wilson remix things just to hear the surround mixes and the bonus content. And I enjoy that. I've yet to hear a stereo remix he has done that did much for me although Aqualung was pretty good.
Side 3 for me
The first section of side 3 is painful, yet the music soon blooms.
I would agree
His last two albums were primarily recorded live in the studio. Then he adds the vocals afterward. Wilson doesn't need studio trickery, he hires top-drawer musicians.
In all seriousness,
Try reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" while listening to the whole album. It might make more sense. Stay open to what they were trying to get across conceptually, and put yourself in a place of surrender. All the parts are there for a reason, and that reason is you. It really is.
Will do, although I purchased this when it was first released. Am open to a challenge, though.
I tended to not include as 'first' those CDs that were "automatically" sent for transferring by the 'front office' at the record companies (in a rush to fill the new CD bins in stores) by nameless entities who often worked with/pulled safety masters instead of the primary original master, and worse still, often safety masters EQ'd for the RIAA curve of vinyl!
You're right, of course - I was being too general. There is an unevenness to the successive wave of Yes masters, some titles were better than others, etc, every time. But it's TFTO that stuck in my craw with every iteration by far, of course because of the challenges specifically inherent in tackling a transfer.
and to address another gentleman above, the original vinyl experience of TFTO is still the best at this point - the very medium of vinyl was what technology at that time was meant to address in hiding the [un-thought-of] limitations of analog medium at the time. Hoping that it can be reborn by the great ears of an SW or equal - like the others of this era recently were.
Well, I know what Jon Anderson says he based it on - texts found in Japan while on tour - But I always introduced it to many who were not initially inclined to want to listen at all, as being the musical version of the then-popular book 'Be Here Now'!
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