Discussion in 'Coupons, Discounts & Sales' started by rjraphael, Sep 24, 2019.
yes sorry--revenue not profit. still an insane amount of sales.
if you don't understand the difference between the two, I don't know what to tell you and theres no sense in getting in a discussion with you based on it because clearly you can't have a discussion in good faith. it's incredibly bizarre for me to see people to say that anyone using a loophole that has existed for the past few years for a company that makes nearly 100 billion dollars a year is "Stealing".
In response to this:
Why not? If there's nothing wrong with it? Don't you want your local store to "sell more units."
That's a @#$% ton of assumptions.
What assumptions? Follow the thread... Someone earlier said using the loophole for the Target sale was “stealing”. I said Target and Amazon make a lot of their profit by quantity, not huge margins and I wouldn’t use the loophole if it was a small business/local store. Someone tried to twist my words so I explained the difference between how local record stores and giant corporations make money. There are no assumptions in there.
But I’m glad you love the Internet!
So... I seem to have triggered some discussion here with my original posts last Friday (#1579 and #1585, for any US readers who were celebrating the holiday and want to catch up). In particular, the word "stealing" seems to have been the metaphorical "thistle in the butt" for some people. Sorry ‘bout that, it kind of distracted from my original point.
I don’t post a lot here, but the intention behind the original post was that I would see other people posting comments inferring that it was OK to manipulate this sale, if you couldn’t find 3 items you wanted.
In other words, if you only wanted to buy 1 item (not three, as the sale terms specified), just look for 2 more around the same price, and either just cancel them before the sale went through (and get the discount for the item you’re intending to purchase, without having to keep to the terms of the sale), or if you had the funds, just purchase all 3 items and return 2 of them, without ever intending to keep the returned ones.
So, I would see comments telling people to do this, in order to get the sale price without keeping to the actual terms of the sale. And it bothered me that people were promoting shaky behavior, and the post was meant to just say just that.
I was bothered by this, that’s all I meant to say. It was my OPINION that it was wrong to encourage it. MY OPINION. That’s all it is. If it’s not yours, well then... great. Carry on with your media buying.
As several folks pointed out, the only reason that people can do this in the first place is because of the way Target calculates the discount during these sales. I’ve been told by several folks that if they INTENTIONALLY buy three items during the sale (intending to keep them, that is) and end up returning 2 of them for whatever reason, the discount is calculated the same way. And that’s totally true.
And if you still get a discount due to this, then yes, that’s on Target and they are apparently OK with that (or for whatever reason they aren’t fixing it).
HOWEVER, that’s a little different from getting a discount from a sale where the terms are “Buy 3 – Get 1 Free", and going into this purposely not intending to do the “buy 3” part. I just want to buy one or two, but I want the discount anyway, so I’m going to PRETEND to buy 3.
Sure, you can do it. Yes, Target’s system of calculating is flawed. But their calculations aren’t the reason you’re getting the discount in this case, it’s because you’re deliberately taking advantage of the calculating error. So (once again, IN MY OPINION) it’s probably a little shady, yeah. And it bothered me that people were promoting this here, and on other vinyl buying forums.
But there was a lot of justification being discussed, mostly to the effect that because it’s a large corporation making billions in profit, that it’s OK. WalMart / Target / Amazon et.al. have these types of losses ingrained in their system, and they make their money on volume, so it doesn’t matter whether we do it or not. It’s a “loophole” (someone called it a “trick”) that can be taken advantage of.
And you’re right, you CAN take advantage of this loophole. But ultimately YOU have to choose to do the manipulation, in order to take advantage.
I don’t give a crap about Target, or any other large corporation. And it makes me sick how much some of these CEO’s make (which was also noted somewhere here). But using that as justification is questionable, at best.
If you wouldn’t do this with a small indie shop that had the same terms of sale (and same online calculating errors), then I’m at a loss to figure out why it’s OK to do it with a billion-dollar corporation.
If it’s wrong, it’s wrong. It doesn’t matter whether it’s “built into the system” or not. It’s ultimately getting a discount you’re not entitled to.
But once again, this is only MY OPINION. Everybody has one. And if you don’t agree, that’s OK too.
Whoops... someone (correctly) pointed out to me that it's not "Buy 3 - Get 1 Free", rather, buy 2, get 1 free. Sorry. I stand corrected, and appreciate your input.
It’s a few extra dollars off from a sale that has had the same loophole for 3+ years. And all from a corporation that sells $100 billion+ in merchandise every year. It’s really not a big deal. But if the moral high horse is so important for you then so be it. I just didn’t appreciate you saying people are stealing or passing judgment on people who used the loophole. You’re making it seem like people are breaking the law by using the loophole.
and the way they do the calculations IS how the loophole works. You could walk into a target store, buy 3 records and return one and the discounts would remain on the other two you kept.
Target also said preorders weren’t included in the sale but they rang up as sale items. So should people not preorder any items because they “aren’t entitled to it” and not sticking to the terms of the sale?
I don’t see us agreeing about any of this anyway, so I’ll just agree to disagree and leave it at that…
And again, if you don’t see a difference between taking advantage of a loophole with a huge corporation with a CEO that makes more in bonuses that some people will ever see, and doing the same thing to an independent record store owner who personally takes the loss if something is returned to his store and he can’t resell it, you are arguing in bad faith. Period. Open your eyes and look around you. 1. It isn’t wrong because Target has definitely got to know about it by now, and 2. Even if they didn’t know or weren’t okay with it, a corporation is not a person. You aren’t taking advantage of Joe the record store owner across town, you’re taking advantage of a capitalistic materialistic system that is designed to incentivize using loopholes to get ahead. Corporations exploit people, but when people exploit a corporation, suddenly there’s a problem?
Oh my God. ENOUGH already.
I just don’t understand. Is it SO important to you guys that you’re right, that you can’t let this go?
Yeah, I get it...the big evil corporation, we’re just taking what’s rightfully ours by any means necessary. They exploit us, so it’s right to exploit them. Their CEO makes millions, blah blah blah. The same argument, over and over.
And of course, let us not forget the mighty LOOPHOLE, that they left open for us. They MUST be OK with us exploiting this, since they haven’t done anything about it. They’re practically begging us to take advantage. They make billions, so they certainly don’t care about a few bucks. (Have I forgotten anything?)
The only reason I posted this morning (despite my better judgment – should have listened to my gut, actually) was to clarify, due to a lot of comments regarding my perceived intentions in the discussions that followed my original post. I was surprised that expressing an OPINION could create such controversy, but I guess discussion is good.
But people were (and apparently are) saying (among other things) that... I was passing judgment on people. That I’m on a “moral high horse” (that’s a good one, actually). That I was accusing people of stealing. Now I’m apparently equating it with / accusing people of breaking the law, and “arguing in bad faith”. Oh, brother. Boo freakin’ hoo.
All I can say is, if the information I posted in this morning’s post (#1630/1631) isn’t clear enough to explain my opinion, then I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not trying to change what you believe, and I don’t particularly care whether you agree or not.
You can argue however you want, but wrong is not right, just because it’s a billion-dollar corporation and not somebody on the street. It’s twisted logic. IN MY OPINION.
And if, in YOUR opinion, you think it’s OK to do, I’ve said from the beginning that you have the right to think that.
Say what you want. The sale is over anyway, so it’s kind of a moot point.
In the meantime, I’m going to get on my “moral high horse” and gallop on out of here, before people beat the poor thing to death. Giddy-up!
Thread got boring. The vice squad members can enjoy their self-satisfied morality and the thieves and scoundrels can enjoy their 33% cheaper records.
Hey guys, anybody get their sale items yet? I had a big box today with the Beatles Mono Masters and 2 Dead boxsets. Looking forward to diving in.
(4) Taylor Swift albums
A Love Supreme
Joni Mitchell - Reprise Box
Henry Franklin - The Skipper at Home
Walter Bishop - Keeper of My Soul
Norah Jones - Christmas album
A Love Supreme Live in Seattle
Art Blakey - First Flight to Tokyo
Sigur Ros Agaetis Byrjun
Barney Wilen - French Ballads
Billy Cobham - Spectrum
ELO - Eldorado MoFi SuperVinyl
Bill Evans - Trio 65
Honestly I thought I bought more. I guess a ton I would have ordered I got during uDiscover’s sale.
Got my small in-stock order today.
Hotel California - Chris Bellman remastered.
A Charlie Brown Christmas with lenticular cover and poster and green vinyl. Pretty cool looking and sounds fine.
Art Blakey Witch Doctor -Blue Note Tone Poet
plus 5 pre-orders . Ordered them separately so hopefully I can get them on release day.
My first shipment just got here a few minutes ago with a whole bunch of stuff:
LZ I Deluxe, Cream Live at RAH 2005, Tedeschi Trucks Band - Revelator, Hendrix - Are You Experienced? (UK mono), Dr. No soundtrack, Concert for George, LZ - How The West Was Won, Layla 50th Anniversary 4LP
I already picked up a few others for store pickup:
Robert Plant & Alison Krauss - Raise the Roof, Childish Gambino - Awaken My Love, Kendrick Lamar - Damn
And these are coming soon:
LZ - The Song Remains The Same 4LP, LZ - BBC Sessions Super Deluxe, Beatles - Sgt Pepper Super Deluxe, Acoustic Sounds series Ella Wishes You A Swinging Christmas and Louis Armstrong Meets Oscar Peterson, Hendrix Live at Woodstock, and Black Label Society - Mafia
it's been a steady stream of deliveries since last week. i expect it to continue into next. will take the rest of december to work through it all.
Got my second & third shipments in today,
Lake Street Dive - Obviously
John Prine - Revenge
Black Keys - Let's Rock
McCartney - III
Zeppelin - III
Brandi Carlile - In These Silent Days
On it's way
John Coltrane - A Love Supreme (Verve Acoustic Sounds Series LP) (Vinyl)
Simon & Garfunkel - Parsley, Sage, Rosemary & Thyme (Vinyl)
The Doors - Strange Days (Vinyl)
The Doors - Waiting for The Sun (Vinyl)
Paul Revere & The Raiders - Spirit Of '67 (Vinyl)
Led Zeppelin - Houses of The Holy (Vinyl)
Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffitti (Vinyl)
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II (Vinyl)
Got most of what I ordered already!
*Joni Mitchell box set
*CB cut of Californication
*CB cut of Talking Heads - More Songs…
*CB cut of DMB- Crash
*nirvana unplugged - BG cut
*Starfish - The Church - intervention records pressing
*Jackie Mittoo - The Keyboard King of Studio One
*Sade box set
*All Things Must Pass 5LP
*Jerry Garcia Band box set
*ELO ElDorado MoFi supervinyl
*Terry Callier - The New Folk Sound
Oh man, I SWEAR I looked for that Jackie Mittoo LP and it wasn’t there. Must have been too late for it. Great snag!
i think it was you who recommended that terry callier 2xLP, so thank you! had no idea it existed. got mine yesterday and listened last night. fantastic all-around craft release.
These are some supreme hauls listed here!
Grateful Dead 2/28/69 showed up today. The etched disk is almost a soup bowl it’s so warped… that’s going back. Shame I didn’t notice until after I had cleaned the other 4 disks…
Yeah, I received the Purple/Blue Dead set a few days ago. 3 of 5 discs were severely warped.
probably was me! i'm still waiting for mine but it's a really cool record. I was pretty surprised to see it at Target since it seemed to be sold out at most other places. glad you're enjoying it!
I thought it was a UK only release originally so it was another thing I didn't expect to see at Target.
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