Tavish Adagio, Parasound JC3+, JC3 Jr or something else in the $1.5K - $3K

No problem. I realized the hyperbole of my statement (about paying twice the price) but the fact remains, if I were to somehow lose my JC3 and had to pay more than what I did originally ($2995) to replace it I would, and I wouldn’t hesitate. And my goodness, I’ve only used the MM input so far. If I were to add another phono stage to experiment with , for a different designers perspective etc., I might try a more expensive unit but, I’d definitely keep the Parasound.

 

OK. We get enough hyperbole and one-sided views on products these days on the net, I try not to contribute to it.

It's tough enough getting pro / con for buyers these days, and that goes for forums more and more every day. In many ways forums are going the way of the pro review -- no trouble finding the +'s -- but as we know nothing is perfect and everything has trade-offs.

 

If the JC3+ could do one thing better it would be skipping the longish breaking in period and deliver all the sonic goods say, in a week or two. Is the wait worth it? Does one mind spending upwards of $3000 only to play stacks and stacks of records before the unit is fully on song? That’s up to the individual to decide. Problem with the JC3 is it sounds so good at first that the continued improvements sonically months into ownership left me wishing I had been getting all from the get go. I just may have an oddball unit that’s slow breaking in however. Either way, I’m digging it.

 

Yes, hang in there a bit longer. I noted quite a few pages back about the JC3+ being “shouty” during the first week or so. By that I meant some of the vocals and electric guitars in the mid to upper mid ranges were glaring, brightish and uncomfortable to hear. There was also a ton of details and an overly vivid and untamed presentation that seemed very “ busy” to almost everything I played the first few days.

However, underneath the harshness the JC3+ was asserting itself as the prospective new bully on the street with amazing depth and quiet tracking and scale of size. As the days and weeks passed the sounds that were unpleasant had tamed, the brightness was replaced with glowing warmth the high end sweetened up and extended gracefully. The bass is very, very good but my Hana SH could be a limiting factor here because I would like a smidge more lows at times.

 

I see what you mean about not contributing to one sided views and hyperbole lol.

 

Clearly my pointing out the "I'd pay double" excitement bothered you -- sincere apologies.

The mini review on the Accuphase points out pros / cons, granted there are not a lot of cons admittedly because, well, I can't find many. After you've forced me a while later to sit here and think about it again "what don't I like about it" I am drawing a blank except for MM gain.

Call it one-sided if you will - but that is definitely not a fair assessment of how I roll - anyone who reads my contributions knows I am objective, point out both the pros and the cons. Probably point out more of the cons than most.

Perhaps the reviews tells you more about the C-27 than it does about me....

 

It’s all good. I dearly wish Accuphase didn’t have such a markup and had USA dealer support because it does look great, all of it. The C 27 has features and conveniences I wish the JC3+ had for sure. I still have an itch to splurge on a Pass xp-17 but I want to get some good LOMC carts first so I can make best use of it and the JC3+. The reason for the itch is because I was so heavily weighing the pros and cons between the JC3 + and the xp15, xp17 before I made a purchase, that I still have a strong desire to compare them in person. Find an excuse for having both is probably closer to the truth but hey, at 53 I still got my good hearing so while I still do.....

 

I understand, and you are playing in a nice neighborhood. I was looking at the same Pass phono pre's earlier this year, plus other times before that. Nice stuff.

BTW, Accuphase DOES have USA dealer support - it is in California. But, they want you to buy the USA versions of the Accuphase gear to get that local US support (the 120V versions) I have 100V versions - and have never tried to get support locally - but have been told they will point me to Japan. But you know what? I'll place a wager the Accuphase line stage and phono pre I have (and soon to be power amp) won't have an issue that requires support -- I can count on one hand the number of times I have needed support for audio gear over the last 40+ years, and then probably only a couple of fingers. Then, the reputation for Accuphase gear using top notch components, very low failure rate make it even less a concern. What's interesting though - I am currently in contact with Parasound about my JC3+ (see later on in the post).

The Pass does not have the same coverage / reviews out there on forums or the net as the JC3+ of course. But I know it is good - we ALL know it is good - but it is harder to find user reviews like a lot of other choices (ie - Parasound). There is a small audio shop owner back east who has the highest end Pass phono pre (not sure of the model) and has always raved about it. He also has a Pass line stage and power amp. One thing I have heard, and a lot like the Accuphase reputation - Pass really shines when hooked up with other Pass gear in the signal chain! Parasound is that way too - I currently have an A21 power amp, and the JC3+, and had a choice to get the JC2 line stage. But I went the other way and got and Accuphase C-2410 line stage, C-27 phono pre, and now looking for an Accuphase power amp. But there is nothing better than brand synergy thoughout the signal chain if possible, not in all cases, but definitely in others.

In summary - the JC3+ is a fine phono preamp. Just like the Accuphase, the JC3+ gain has some areas for consideration - but on the low, not high side. The JC3+ gain has been well chronicled above in the thread though, no need to rehash. I had prepared a long winded reply that really detailed out my gain findings of the JC3+ after lengthy testing, trying many cartridges at different outputs on both XLR and RCA, but never posted it. I have both outputs on the JC3+ active to my line stage, so comparing any particular cartridge on XLR or RCA is a simple toggle of the input on the linestage with the remote. The summary to the findings is what we already knew, in certain scenarios that JC3+ can be high gain! Too much gain impacts SQ. For someone who wants to run a 100% balanced / XLR system, and bought the JC3+ with that in mind, they might be very surprised to find out that many of the "mainstream" and more common cartridge output levels are quite stilted on the JC3+ with a lot of gain!

There is one thing I found on the JC3+ that I have been waiting to report out on - I alluded to it earlier on, but have not elaborated as I have been in touch with Parasound for a few weeks and giving them a chance to reconcile. It has to do with using Mono cartridges, but agin I will hold off because it is entirely possible that it is a problem with my unit and not a universal one. Also, not many run mono cartridges, so it would not be something the majority would really care about.

 

I had an issue with my first JC3 + mono switch. It would turn orange when depressed but half the time no mono. Finally after a week the switch stayed orange and wouldn’t switch back. The second unit, which I received as a replacement, works fine.

 

Anyone know much about the Japanese Triode TRV-EQ3SE phono preamp? Pretty nice looking tube unit with step up transformers for two levels of MC gain, giving 42, 58 or 64dB gain. Apparently introduced about 10 years ago at around $3000, one for sale right now for under $800 at hifi-do, be fun to try if I didn't already have enough stuff ... looks almost like a small power amp ...






BTW, they also have new listings for both the Pass XP-15 and the Accuphase C-27 just mentioned above, both under $3000, though the Pass probably wouldn't be a very good deal for someone in the US. The Accuphase probably would be, not sure how good the price is, but it is a very nice and flexible unit, as TVA can attest to.

 

Interesting. My switch is fine (of course), on JC3+ my mono issue has to do with how the unit behaves with mono cartridges mounted / playing. (four different ones to date I have tried with consistent results). I am still in contact with Parasound on this and not sure if it is a problem with my unit, or a universal one. More to come on that.

Another minor issue I had was the loading knob on the left channel on the back - mine spun freely and had come unglued - but it took just a touch of adhesive and careful alignment to get it back attached.......... I saw another person had the same issue on a review somewhere. A minor QC issue.

 

I saw these --- I comb HiFiDo daily. Note they lower their prices for the first couple of days - they introduce the first day at an inflated rate, the for the next 1 - 3 days lower it until they hit a certain point and stop. The C-27 started at $3200 the first day, which without original box and a couple minor cosmentic flaws was a little high. The $2900 price was more like it here on the second day- and it went on HOLD right away meaning someone ordered it.

The Pass stated at $2976, and still out there now at $2700 - to my senses still a little high in US dollar terms as there is one on USAM for $2300 now. The Pass XP15 - what always throws me just a bit is if you want to change from MM to MC, I think you have to mess with little dip switches on the back?

The Triode.... the first day it came out I started digging for information on it......... and kept digging...... then dug further. I saw one review that deemed it "faithful" but implied it was not really an"audiophile grade" component.

 

I love the sound of Triode corp. components- they make a variety of integrated amps, source components and separates that tend to have levels of transparency that are inconsistent with their relatively lower market price. I would try this one too if I wasn't set at phono preamp.

Thanks for the info about that Japanese site too!

 

The Triode sitting since 7/14 says a lot about popularity and hence resale.... the good stuff goes immediately of HifiDo. Usually if something is desirable, good or in high demand at HiFiDo it goes quick........ if it isn't selling there it is an indicator of how easy of a time you'll have reselling it if you wanted to.

Unless they mis-price - like the Pass, they started too high, they don't sell a lot of Pass and probably aren't used to nailing the price point to move it. HiFiDo usually prices to sell, stuff moves in the first day or two.

Having bought four TT's from them, two Accuphase components (line stage, preamp) and a bunch of other stuff I learned how things work over there.

 

"That" Japanese site? Is that seriously the first time you've heard about HiFiDo???

 

yes

 

OK....... great place to shop if one is targeting Japanese only market type gear - like Yamaha, Kenwood, Accuphase, etc gear that the nicer stuff never made it over here.

Earlier in the thread, the Accuphase C-27 I bought there... an example. Technically C-27 did make it over as there is an Accuphase USA - but nobody shops there because of the the 150% markup, making the US 120V versions way out of range for many (me included).

Also have Yammy GT-2000, Pioneer PL-70Lii TT's among others ---- but realize the website is "19th century" technology, can be tough to navigate, they don't have a checkout system where you just "buy" something, etc. So it is an acquired taste and takes a while to learn the ropes on how to shop there.

As I said, the good stuff goes QUICK.

 

BTW, before I am corrected - of course I meant "2oth century" in my post above......... they didn't have websites in the 1800's if I am recollecting history correctly!

 

As stated above - check out the price on the Pass XP-15 now. Down to $2300 and still unsold.... I commented above how $2900 was too high, and be patient - well here it is at $2300, and if it doesn't sell they may lower it further!

One question for Pass experts - I like how it has inputs for both MC and MM - which implies two TT's at once - but if I were to switch TT's, do I have to access the back panel, and mess with those little dip switches to change the out from MM to MC? (or vice versa). I don't see anything on the front panel to facilitate.... well......... anything!

XP-15 PASS - HiFi-Do McIntosh/JBL/audio-technica/Jeff Rowland/Accuphase

 

I'm no Pass expert by any means, but I don't think this is meant to be used with two TT (or two tone arms) at once. How would the single know which is elevating to which settings? It doesn't have a switch between the inputs. I think you would be using one or the other input, and setting your dip switches appropriately. If it was truly meant to support two TT/carts, I think you would see two sets of settings, and a front switch for which one was in use. Similar to an integrated amp. That's my guess.

 

Take a look at the back panel - it has two inputs - MM and MC. I am sure you can have two TT's hooked up at once. I think you have to flip dip switches to change them though. (like I asked above) I looked at the manual, and when I wasn't 100% certain, is why I asked.

You don't sound certain either - maybe someone can chime in to help both of us understand! I think you can have two TT's, but need to flip switches --- but could be wrong.

But everything certainly needs to be set from those little dip switches on the back -- -there clearly are not gain, loading, MM/MC buttons, or anything, on the front panel!

 

I did look at the back panel before responding. I guess what I'm saying is just because you can, does not mean that's the intended use. I think all those dip switches are in the back to encourage only using one of those RCA input at a time. Similarly, I used to own the iPhono2 which also had a MM and MC input, with the dip switches on the bottom. That unit was not intended to use both inputs to allow switching, but rather to allow a different signal path based on the require gain for the cart. I think that is the case with this Pass design as well. If I had to guess.

 

OK. I see. Thanks for the guess.

 

Are there any folks who have used an Adagio with a Cronus magnum 2?

 

I used a Rogue Ares with a Rogue Perseus and Rogue Stereo 100. Great synergy. I also auditioned the Adagio in that same system and it sounded great. A little more punch and detail than the Ares, but the Ares seemed to get out the way better.