So you don't believe I owned an LP12? Here's a pic of the one I had: And you still haven't addressed the issue of experience. As far as I can tell from your posts, you've only owned the LP12. So, pray tell, has does one who has only owned one table seemingly have more experience than someone who has owned many? I'm not trying to make this a d--k measuring contest. I'm just stating that I would think someone who has had multiple tables in their life may have a better insight as to comparisons, vs. someone who has only owned one table and "heard" other tables at shops or shows. It's also no concern to me that you like your Linn. That is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. What I take exception to is when you posts things saying that anyone who doesn't agree that the LP12 is the best table out there is out of their minds since they haven't heard one in 30 years. I'm telling you I owned one fairly recently and fairly upgraded. I do not think it's the best turntable out there. I prefer many over it. But according to you, I'm out of my mind since the the LP12 is definitely the best table out there and anything else isn't even a consideration.
Very nice looking Linn. Since you apparently sold that table and went with a 1200G, all I can say is good for you....you saved a lot of $$. I have had a 1200G in my system, I think i posted that before, my Linn killed it...as usual YMMV. BTW, IMHO, the best table out there is a Basis Transcendence ( not the LP12)...which i have NOT had in my system ( but that doesn't mean I have not heard it, and I know it is the best I have heard). Maybe your 1200G will better that one too..yes??
To me, the P9 sounded more full, with taut, deep bass. Both had good speed stability, but the P9 handled complex passages better.
Tells nothing, maybe you just emotionel attached to your Linn and wont admit that there are spinners which are way ahead of your Linn
Nice post.We need more of this repressed thuggishness on this forum.Perhaps you could fill in your equipment details on your information.Also, it's 'emotionally' not emotional.
Here is a video which demonstrates the effects of signal on drag. A cartridge has to be getting the variable signal output from somewhere, so the fluctuations in drag in this video come as no surprise. Bear in mind that these fluctuations are usually periodic, and therefore likely to excite resonant behaviour if the belt/suspension system has a natural frequency in the drag fluctuation range.
I have no idea what this discussion is about - but the LP12 is one hell of a turntable. Still, one can't own every variation, every tone arm, every cartridge, etc. One LP12 isn't necessarily another LP12. Is the LP12 the "best out there"? I haven't the faintest idea. In fact, I haven't the faintest idea how to define the "best out there". Nor would I want to - because whatever it is, I can't afford one!
20-year LP12 user here. For a true 1200G versus LP12 shoot-out, the dear old LP12 has to be operating at her very best against a completely reimagined and newly revised 1200G. A reoccurring theme in this long thread, is how the LP12 does not maintain good platter speed - and how the TECHNICS DD solves this problem. The LP12's platter-speed problems are not imagined. It is a basic flaw of the original, conventional LP12 design, where the motor is constantly conducting a "tug-o'-war" with the (hanging) sub-chassis. Remember, the LP12 sub-chassis is only suspended from the top-plate, with nothing but (perhaps) some overly ambitious tonearm cable-dressing to combat the motor's efforts to twist the sub-chassis clockwise. Add the constant pull and recoil of the motorised rubber belt into the mix and the LP12 remains set to deliver constant, minute speed variations - irrespective of which fancy motor or power supply is fitted. Not good. If you don't believe it, by all means check it with a light strobe. Those tiny speed variations you see moving back and forth are very obvious - and audible! Thankfully, there is a simple, affordable ($100) easily fitted (easily reversed) fix for our beloved LP12. Let me be clear... this fix was not my idea. I stumbled onto it, as mentioned by a number of Kiwi and Aussie LP12 owners Downunder. They swore by it and none of them ever returned! AUDIOSILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS! They're made in Japan - originally intended for THORENS turntables. Turns out they fit the LINN sub-chassis perfectly and have finally shown what our beloved LP12 is really capable of. Quite simply, the original LINN springs and grommets are completely removed and replaced with these little, clear mushies. Imagine an LP12 with a barely suspended sub-chassis and plinth, supported only by fairly firm, clear silicone grommets under gravitational pressure. It's cheap and easy to try - and reverse - and makes perfect sense from an engineering standpoint. We all purchased the mushrooms from the friendly and helpful Lennart from LinnArts in Sweden. He sells all manner of LP12 treasures - and again, swears by the mushrooms as being the highest form of LP12 in his box of tricks. I'm REALLY not missing the LINN bounce at all - and there are no footfall issues with our toddler jumping around the listening room and robot vacuum-cleaner bumping the rack while spinning (never were previously, actually). Importantly, the LP12 fiddly set-up issues are completely gone. The sub-chassis is still (barely) suspended, but it barely moves. And gone are those costly and inconvenient trips to the LP12 doctor to have the deck "tuned-up" - yet again! Best of all, the sound has moved-up into an entirely different league. Yes, I run a new STACK AUDIO sub-chassis. Yes, I run the KAROUSEL bearing. Yes, I use the award-winning WAND PLUS tonearm. Yes, I run a DC motor. ...But IMHO, because of the fundamental design flaws they remedy, installing the AUDIOSILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS should be the first and foremost upgrade that anyone does on the LP12. So back to the shoot-out. But before you decide to kick your beloved LP12 into touch, be sure that you have heard her at her very best. $100 and a bit of DIY gets the job done. Trust me, you're going to LOVE it - and that arm-board is going to line-up better than you've ever seen it before! (And stay there!) Further reading here... LP12 updates… 3 years later…
Hi Agitater. Love your pull-no-punches style, but that post was circa early-2018. Was wondering if you’ve heard the ‘new’ Majik, with its (pretty much raved about) Karousel bearing, and upgraded Krane tonearm. If you have, where do you think things stand now? Thnx as always. Also curious about your Avid, if you care to throw it into the mix. I understand the Diva II SP is a ‘sweet spot’ in the lineup/far better than the regular Diva II. If so, and if it’s also competitive with the new Majik and 1200G, it becomes very interesting, yes? . Okay
Fascinating write up and obviously without listening the only thing I would like to add is to question the speed measurement of a LP12 with a strobe. From personal experience of using one(!) perfectly centred and flat Linn strobe disc with the 300Hz Speed Chekker, as shown above, I can assure you that with a LP12 with a Valhalla, Lingo etc, who can easily get the lines absolutely static and it will remain so for hours on end. I would suggest the movement you are seeing, is the strobe disc being very slightly off centre, I have seen it on dozens of other strobe discs!! I used that one perfect one for over a decade and wish I still had it... Unfortunately there are a lot of records out there, where the spindle hole is not centred. The speed of a turntable with a cartridge in the groove is another subject and I have read @tryitfirst's posts with interest! Happy listening, however you spin your records.
There is a UK made solution to replace the springs. Analogue Innovation Insoles. They are listed on Ebay only as the Website was taken down for personal reasons. Think the owner is John. Appear to be out of stock at present but the Sole Subchassis is available. Claimed to outperform any of Linn's expensive versions. https://rb.gy/zyp3ji
Just checked in on the last page of the thread, I was curious. I'm the original owner of an LP12/Lingo/Ittok since 1990! Over the last few decades I've seen so many threads with people butting heads over the LP12, looks like this one's no different. I love the sound of my LP12, are their turntables that sound better? of course there are. I guess I always felt that it was good enough, obviously, since I've had it for 33 yrs! If nothing else, I think I got my money's worth!
Great points. The issue with the LP12 in the past was that it was not a plug and play solution like a Technics. As such, folks would buy an LP12, typically not get a great result due to lack of set up knowledge, poor synergy with components, lack of maintenance and a host of other issues…and then assume that the table is at fault. Most of these very same folk come on threads like this and bemoan and belittle the table, even though the last time they had any experience with it was decades ago!
The myth that the Linn needs NASA level engineering to set up correctly has become quite comical. If you just read one of the many websites that shows you how to do it, pretty much anyone can do it. You basically are rotating 3 springs until you get an even pistonic bounce. Not exactly rocket science. I love that if someone doesn’t like an LP12, the Linn disciples immediately claim it’s because it wasn’t set up right. Never quite understanding that some people prefer the sound of other tables.
On the other hand I have run my LP12 since 1984 and have always had it set up by well known experts at established Linn dealerships, for example, the late great Derek Jenkins. Despite this, the first time I tried an SL-1210 I was immediately struck by the steady pitch of instruments, melodies and harmonies. I had never heard real pitch stability from a turntable at home until that moment. Recently I have installed in my LP12 the aforespoken Insoles, and find they make a worthwhile difference to the sense of speed stability.
Thank you for replying to this, good to know my memory isn't completely shot! It was your post about this and the fact your turntable was set up by Derek Jenkins in the first place, which made me think if I put my bits of old LP12 together, I would try your cotton recommendation. You came to your conclusion from audition, rather than assumption, which is really the point I've always tried to make and the only way to ensure long term listening satisfaction.
I'm not sure what the "Insoles" are made of, but it is my view that the "silicone" material of the AUDIOSILENTE MUSHROOMS contributes important damping attributes, their pressed hard against the LP12 sub-chassis. Certainly, my experiments with silicone oil in the LINN bearing confirm that even the tiniest amount of silicone has VERY substantial ability to convert vibration into heat - despite silicone oil's inability to protect precious bearing surfaces.
Yes it’s common knowledge that mushrooms have the effect of opening up a new musical dimension by damping certain parts of the mind.
I’m pretty sure In-Soles are elastomeric isolators. Here’s how Chat GBT describes them: Elastomeric isolators are commonly used for mechanical isolation in various applications. Elastomeric isolators are typically made from rubber or elastomer materials that exhibit high elasticity and damping properties. They are designed to provide effective isolation and attenuation of vibrations and shocks across a wide range of frequencies, including low-frequency vibrations. Here are some key features and benefits of elastomeric isolators: Vibration Isolation: Elastomeric isolators are specifically engineered to isolate and dampen vibrations. They can effectively reduce the transmission of vibrations from one component or structure to another, thereby minimizing the negative effects of vibrations on sensitive equipment or structures. Load-Bearing Capability: Elastomeric isolators can support varying load capacities while maintaining their isolation performance. They are available in different designs and configurations to accommodate different load requirements. Broad Frequency Range: Elastomeric isolators offer isolation capabilities across a wide frequency spectrum, including low, mid, and high frequencies. They are particularly effective in attenuating low-frequency vibrations that may be challenging to isolate using other methods. Resilience and Durability: Elastomeric isolators are resilient and durable, allowing them to withstand repeated loads, shocks, and environmental conditions without significant degradation in performance. They can provide long-lasting and reliable mechanical isolation. Versatility and Customizability: Elastomeric isolators come in various shapes, sizes, and configurations, allowing for flexibility in design and integration into different applications. They can be tailored to specific load requirements, vibration profiles, and environmental conditions. Easy Installation: Elastomeric isolators are typically designed for easy installation, making them convenient to use in various settings. They can be easily integrated into machinery, equipment, structures, or mounting systems. Common applications of elastomeric isolators include: Industrial machinery and equipment HVAC systems and machinery Construction and building structures Automotive and transportation systems Aerospace and defense equipment Power generation and distribution systems It's important to select the appropriate elastomeric isolator based on the specific requirements of the application, including load capacity, frequency range, environmental conditions, and desired level of isolation. Consulting with experts or engineers specializing in vibration isolation can help determine the most suitable elastomeric isolator solution for your specific needs
ChatGPT told my daughter that I was dead. I had to inform her that rumours of my death were greatly exaggerated. I think of it as Artificial Ignorance and don't bother reading the truth-agnostic essays it writes. The only way to find out if you prefer Insoles or Audiosilente is to try them both, carefully. Doing so will probably only appeal to someone with plenty of time on her hands.
I have both a 1200G and a Linn Sondek, with the facility to attach the same arm. I'm sorry that I haven't had time yet to do a direct comparison, but it's coming. I have also worked out a passable way to record video with turntable output, so one day soon I'll be able to contribute some real information here.
