Technics SL-1200G vs SL-1200GR + suitable MM cartridge for either

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Nubben, Jan 29, 2018.

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  1. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    Thanks! I ask because I'm looking at getting the KAB concorder but sty30 fine line stylus
     
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  2. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    Right. I haven’t seen a review comparing the PLX-1000 to the SL-1200GR. I’ve seen plenty that compare the GR favorably to the old 1200s.
     
  3. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    What are you talking about?

    I haven't listened to either of them.

    But neither have you and you're posting about how they sound. I haven't posted anything about how they sound. Do you think I have?

    I'm just pointing out that you are posting about the sound quality of turntables you have never heard. Why are you doing that?
     
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  4. Agitater

    Agitater Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    You’re stoutly defending a turntable that nobody is criticizing. Nobody is saying or suggesting that the PLX-1000 is anything other than a good turntable. FWIW, I’ve said (in this thread and others) that, based on my own auditions, the PLX-1000 is a perfectly good turntable that many audiophiles can be happy with for years and years and years. If you own a PLX-1000, you should be very happy with it.

    Careful setup, too, is what sometimes separates the good from the very good when it comes to sound comparisons. A well isolated PLX-1000 that is positioned well away from big speakers, and that isn’t subject to flexing floors that cause its stand to move, with an accurately set up cartridge that is good enough to take full advantage of the tonearm, will sound better than a SL-1200GR that has been poorly set up by comparison. But that’s not what we’re on about here.

    While the SL-1200 GR is not an audibly dramatic step up from the PLX-1000, it’s still an audibly noticeable improvement on a lot of material in a good listening room when comparing two, well set up tables. Whether or not the improvements are audible to a particular individual, and whether or not the audible improvements matter to that particular individual is a whole other discussion. For example, last year at Long & McQuade in Toronto, a guy I do business with (who is also a serious music collector) auditioned a PLX-1000, followed by a trek a couple of kilometers east to Bay Bloor Radio to audition an SL-1200 GR. He spent about an hour with each audition. He could not hear a difference between the two turntables in the admittedly less-than-quiet listening environments of the two stores.

    The guy still ended up buying the SL-1200 GR because, as he put it, “... it felt better and looked better and did not have the DJ association in my thinking.” He’s been using his SL-1200 GR happily ever since. Doesn’t regret spending the extra money at all apparently.

    I personally think it’s ill-advised to quote reviewers as part of a supporting point on the one hand, but then imply on the other hand that only a comparative audition should be used to judge relative value or relative quality. Most audio product reviewers write very good things about everything they review. I tend to feel that such reviews are not a basis for consumer decision making. Auditions are much more valuable, if only more and more audiophiles and music lovers in general would take the time to do honest evaluations using a range of their own favorite LPs over the course of a couple of different listening auditions on different days. Eight hundred bucks (or whatever the current price of the PLX-1000 happens to be) is not chicken feed any more than the higher price of the SL-1200 GR.

    I don’t think that price alone is ever an ultimate determinant of product quality, but I personally know a couple of audiophiles who have reasonable budget limitations and tend to feel that a less expensive choice that is affordable for them is somehow by definition better than a comparatively more expensive choice for a product of similar design and technically higher quality. For them, it’s an innocent enough self-justification which is also totally unnecessary mainly because (e.g., using the PLX-1000 as a yardstick) at eight or nine hundred or a thousand bucks or whatever it is, it better be good! And it is. That’s how I see it.
     
  5. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Agitater, you are one of the few posters here who, even when I disagree with you, I find myself in agreement with you simultaneously. Well said below. Since you are also one of the few who has heard all of the machines in question, I defer to your points made. In my mind, value becomes a critical aspect of the hobby, but that's my bias, and is a subjective matter. I'll also note that the Technics machines are obviously beautifully made. If that is a factor in a buyer's decision, then that's completely valid.


     
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  6. H8SLKC

    H8SLKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The OP noted that he already owned a PLX-1000 and I was simply asking the question as to whether the Technics machines, particularly the lower-spec GR model, would surely prove to be a better music maker for him. In a hobby infested with upgrade-itis, it's a legitimate question. The OP can disregard the question/suggestion if he chooses.

     
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  7. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Someone recently put up a video to a comparison between the 2m Black with the factory Shibata and the Fritz Gyger stylus from an OM 40 on it. Even through You Tube, the FG sounded better to my ears - more locked in with the music speaking better, without the bit of haze and indistinction heard with the Black stylus. If I were Nubben, I'd look into changing out the stylus first.

    Ortofon Bronze/Black on Rega Planar 3 2016. The solution for sibilance/IGD?
     
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  8. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    I'd suggest going for the 40 stylus. It's not that much more and it has a much better stylus profile as far as reducing inner groove issues.
     
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  9. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    Yep, absolutely. Much better than the 30.
     
  10. recstar24

    recstar24 Senior Member

    Location:
    Glen Ellyn, IL
    You don't think the FG stylus is maybe a little overkill/hyper detailed? That's my only concern. I figured the FL stylus of the 30 would be a nice balance between the musicality of the STY20 elliptical and the detail/clarity of the STY40.
     
  11. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Overkill? Not at all. It's not really a detail issue, to me. My only consideration in this regard is whether the stylus is the proper size to accurately trace the grooves, particularly the inner grooves. If the stylus can't do that, you get distortion, and that will ultimately cause permanent damage to the record as the stylus plows through the grooves it can't trace. I hear it all the time on used records.
     
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  12. Oatp1b1

    Oatp1b1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    All things aside, I'm not sure if I would buy a 3k turntable + £500 cart to use with a pair of £200 speakers and £200 amplifier. My advice would seriously be to keep your current table + cart and buy new speakers instead.
     
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  13. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    That's what this review says:
    Technics SL-1200G Turntable/Tonearm
    The GR has a different tonearm and probably would be reviewed differently, but I believe the G would be better. Nice to know you can find no fault.
     
  14. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    GR compared to the discontinued 12oo?
    I'm having a hard time deciding on a new table and it seems like the GR could be a high performer and the G a little better in performance but a lot higher in profit margin. I wish I could demo them.
     
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  15. Gabe Walters

    Gabe Walters Forum Resident

    The reviews of the GR do very favorably compare it to the old 1200 models. I agree, a head-to-head between the GR and the G would be very interesting. My opinion is that the GR cuts back in luxuries but probably not in ways that have much effect on the sound. Then again, it’s the opinion of a man who doesn’t have $4k to spend on a turntable.
     
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  16. bluemooze

    bluemooze Senior Member

    Location:
    Frenchtown NJ USA
    Well if you keep buying junk at the same level as your current junk how does your overall system ever improve? :thumbsdow
     
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  17. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    I'd like to bring this thread back to life asking the OP if he had bought the SL1200 whether G or GR. I myself also own a PLX-1000 and would be very interested in hearing about the improvements in sound quality with the Technics.
     
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  18. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    I’m running my Technics SL1200g with a Linn Adikt MM cartridge and it sounds incredible! My point being, if even a lowly entry level MM cartridgeworks well, what would a top of the range MM like the Ortofon Black sounds like?
     
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  19. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Actually, the Black is quite finicky, and is very sensitive to proper setup and adjustments. Hence - it does not always sound as wonderful as should be expected. One might also argue that perhaps Nagaoka MP-500 is top of the range MM.
     
  20. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I heard the GR being demonstrated admittedly through an all technics system. While it is better made and designed I did not hear anything that suggested it was a huge upgrade over my PLX1000. Therefore I suggest the real upgrade would be the G which certainly competes with Audiophile belt drive brands at a similar price and much higher.
     
  21. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    This is the question @H8SLKC first asked. @Agitater also told about someone who auditioned both and didn't find a big difference (and ended up buying the Technics because, well, it's a brand new Technics!). I would love to have a SL1200GR but I also doubt that it would be a great improvement in sound over my PLX-1000 in my less than ideal environment conditions.

    However, If money was not something to worry about at this moment, I would buy a SL1200G immediately and put my only two months old Pioneer in the closet. Not that I dislike the Pioneer, I love it, but the SL1200G is my dream turntable now.
     
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  22. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    Do you know if the all Technics system was the current Grand Class stuff? Because if so it might have been the system as a whole that was underwhelming. I heard that full system (approx $10K) and was underwhelmed in a lot of areas. I remember the bass was really impressive, but the imaging and mid range seemed very underwhelming for the price point. There are a lot of factors in the play when you're looking at a full system like that.
    Interestingly, very few people seem to have auditioned both the GR and G in the same system. I personally am dying to for someone to report back on their thoughts of the two Technics tables side by side.
     
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  23. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I think it may have been the top system or the one below. However I do believe the whole system was suboptimal for showing of the TT at it's best. Still not convinced that the GR justifies the extra on sound alone over the Pioneer. You would be buying it for the brand and better build/design/serviceability as much as SQ improvement. I'm not saying that isn't worth the extra expenditure. Also it does 78 rpm if that is important. The G will be a much bigger leap in SQ though it doesn't do 78 rpm. My feeling is if you have a Pioneer is save up for a G. For a little more than the 1200G including arm my Michell Orbe is a large improvement in a lot of maybe subtle but important areas. So I would expect the 1200G to be as big an upgrade but with a different presentation. BTW the Orbe is a big improvement on the Gyrodec which is quite a bit more costly than the GR at common discount prices.
     
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  24. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Just a small correction for those interested: Both the SL-1200G and SL-1200GR can play at 78 rpm.
     
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  25. snorker

    snorker Big Daddy

    Wasn’t that @avanti1960? He bought the GR after comparing the two I believe.
     
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