Technics SL-1210GR & Pioneer PLX-1000

Before anything else I'd like to say I'm not an audio expert. I happen to like music and turntables, but I'm not very experienced. I've been in this forum for quite some time and I wrote some things that I later realized were wrong and I'm probably still writing things that in the future I'll find out are wrong. One thing I learned is that you have to be very careful and cautious when reviewing gear. I know now that some things I said in the past about some gear are not exactly true, and I only found out about it when I upgraded other gear. I thought a cartridge sounded like X but with a new phono stage I found out it actually sounds like Y. So take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. I learned a lot from my experience and from this forum in the last months but I'm still in the process of learning.

My path so far

In January I decided I should buy a new turntable to substitute the Pro-Ject Debut Carbon that I had bought in Los Angeles in 2012. Considering what was available in Brazil, I was between a Rega Planar 3 and a Pioneer PLX-1000. For a few reasons I ended up buying the Pioneer: Having suffered from hum with the Pro-Ject, I was afraid of the not uncommon speed and hum issues with entry and mid level Regas and if I had to upgrade platter, subplatter, belt and PSU it would become too expensive if I could ever find these upgrades here. At the same time, I was seduced by the favorable reviews the Pioneer had from real life users members of this and other foruns and from professional reviewers. I was not afraid of the whole Chinese-Hampin thing and confidently pulled the trigger.

It was love at the first sight. I thought the PLX-1000 was great. I still think it is.

However, since January, I bought some better gear: from the 2M Blue, I upgrade to an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge and bought a Jelco HS25 headshell to go with it. I upgraded my Musical Fidelity V90 LPS phono stage to a Parasound JC3+, swapped my 90's Denon AVR with a Parasound Halo Integrated, and switched my B&W CDM-1 bookshelves for a pair of B&W 702 S2 floorstanders. I also bought a Sennheiser HD650 headphone.

With this gear, for the first time I started to hear some shortcomings from the turntable. I was a bit unsatisfied with what I thought of some congestion in more demanding songs. The midrange and the middle of the soundstage sounded a bit blurred. I never thought my digital chain (a MacBook Pro connected to a Schiit Modi and then to the Denon and the CDM-1) sounded better than my analong chain, but since I connected the MacBook to the Halo and the 702 S2, the digital chain became much more sophisticated. So I decided to buy a new turntable.

Being a fan of the PLX-1000, the obvious path would be a Technics SL-1200G. I didn't want to miss any of the features I love in the Pioneer such as removable headshell, fast change from 33 to 45 in a button, VTA on the fly, anti-skate, azimuth adjustment (with the Jelco HS25), speed stability, no hum etc. Unfortunately, Technics are not for sale in Brazil, so I decided to buy it when travelling abroad.

In the meantime, a rare chance appeared: someone who brought a SL-1210GR from the UK put it for sale. It was a chance I didn't wanna miss. As a plus, by the pictures I always prefered the black 1210 over the silver 1200. Only my desire for the G made me hesitate but I ended up deciding to buy it.

The table arrived today and I immediately set it up in the place previously occupied by the Pioneer, with the same 2M Black at the same Jelco headhsell. I just had to allign it to the Technics gauge and set VTF to the same 1.5g I used with the Pioneer.

The comparison

I heard about four or five records in the Technics since it arrived. It's not much but I decided to register my thoughts right now while the memory of the PLX-1000 is still fresh. Please notice the Technics is 2,5 times more expensive: $1700 vs. $700.

The looks:

I know a lot of people dislike the look of these turntables but I do not. I think the Pioneer PLX-1000 is beautiful. The die-cast zinc chassis is beautiful. By the pictures it seems like this pattern was used in the new Pioneer amplifier and in the Denon DJ VL12 turntable. I like the 33-45 buttons and the round blue start-stop button. It's a beautiful turntable. My only complaint is the green reset button that looks a bit weird.

The Technics SL-1210GR is also beautiful. It's more sober than the PLX-1000. At the same time, its platter shines more and looks better. The dots in the platter are perfectly straight while in my PLX they're not and give the impression that the platter is not rotating steadly (actually it is, but since the dots are not perfectly shaped, it seems like it's not).

The PLX-1000 looks appeal to younger people I suppose, while the SL-1210GR is more adult. Being 43, I now identify more with the Technics look. A matter of taste though.

The feel:

If you put the Pioneer side by side with lower price Hanpin OEM turntables you can easily perceive the superior quality of the PLX-1000. This is one of the reasons why PLX-1000 owners get so upset when someone says this table is just another Hanpin only overpriced because of the Pioneer brand. It's not. While I believe it shares some OEM components (motor and platter I suppose) and might be made in the same factory, it is superior than any OEM or Super OEM I've seen and touched. The Pioneer feels solid and it is. You just can't compare it with the cheaper PLX-500 that sadly seems to be of exactly the same quality as a AT-LP120 - actually seems to be exactly the same table inside.

The Technics however feels much more solid. Some parts made of plastic in the Pioneer are heavy metal in the Technics. Both arms feel smooth and tight when handling but the Technics feels lighter and more rigid at the same time. You feel the better quality. However, I prefer the arm lifiting mechanism of the Pioneer. My SL-1210GR seems to work as some YouTube videos show, I need to be careful when lowering the arm. Not a big problem since I'm always very careful with everything I own. The rubber in the lift mechanism seems to grab the arm if I don't lift it enough when putting the arm back to rest, making a little noise. That thing that grabs the tonearm when resting is more difficult to open in the Pioneer, which gives me the sensation that the arm could be accidentaly released in the Technics.

The Technics' plinth is much more solid. I thought the Pioneer was built like a tank but the Technics is superior. The headshell light goes up and down more smoothly in the Technics. If you see an open PLX-1000 and an open Technics you'll realize the damping rubber base of the Techincs is much more solid and seeing from the outside it looks and feels like it is.

The Pioneer starts and gets to 33 1/3 or 45 faster, stops faster, goes from 33 to 45 faster, and resets back from a different chosen pitch variaton faster than the Technics. Specs says Pioneer takes 0.3 seconds while the Technics takes 0.7 seconds. The difference is huge in practice. Being used to the Pioneer, it seems like the Technics takes forever to achieve speed stability.

I didn't notice any difference in sound floor. The Pioneer is very silent and so is the Technics.

The sound:

Speed stability seems equal in both tables. I never sensed any pitch variation with the PLX-1000. It's rock solid. Even if the Technics motor is coreless with no cogging, the PLX-1000 motor seems to works just as good. Looking at pictures it seems to be the same motor of the AT-LP1240 or the Denon DJ VL12, but with clearly different electronics connected to it. It's a motor that has proven its great qualities in the last decade as long as I know.

That congested mid-range and soundstage I heard with the Pioneer PLX-1000 is gloriously gone with the Technics SL-1210GR. I immediatly noticed how better the SL-1210GR is soundwise. It has much more definition, tighter bass and extended highs. The soundstage is much wider, it's reasonably deeper, but seems to be just a bit higher. Instruments and vocals mixed in the center are more distinct from each other because I have more space and air in the soundstage. With the Pioneer, vocals, snare drum, kick drum and bass guitar mixed in the center sometimes were a little blurred all in one big fat sound. With the Techincks, in the same records, these instruments have now their place and are much more distinct from each other. Also I sense more tridimensionality. The music in the Technics is more beautiful, smooth, delicate, sophisticated and musical.

I thought that maybe the congestioned sound would be due to too much gain from the 2M Black (5mV) paired wit the JC3+ (48dB). I was a bit skeptical and afraid that I wouldn't hear any improvement with a different turntable but it's here and is very obvious. It seems that I don't have any gain issues affecting sound quality. I didn't believe a turntable with the same cartridge and the same phono stage would make such a difference but it does. It's not a slight difference. It's very clear and I suppose anyone would easily notice it.

I was afraid I would find the sound a bit bright. Some reviews of the SL-1200G mention a slightly bright sound but I had not sensed it with the GR. Not a bit. I have more highs and the music is more clear but not bright or fatiguing at all.

Conclusion:

My skepticism is gone and I'm loving my first day with the SL-1210GR. It is and clearly sounds better than the Pioneer. It should be, of course, being 2,5 times more expensive. And it is.

Will I get rid of my Pioneer? Not now. I'm putting together all my older gear in a secondary system in my bedroom. The Pioneer stays. With that or any other gear matching its level, it sounds great, I know that. I would probably never notice such a difference had I stayed with the same phono stage and speakers. I still recommend the PLX-1000 to anyone who has a system in its price level. It keeps perfect speed, has no hum, and allows its owner to chose good cartridges and have lots of fun. I think it's far superior than my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon for example in each and every aspect you might consider.

However, if you step up in the audio chain, specially of you have cartridge, phono stage and speakers with superior definition skills, you'll maybe feel the need for something more sophisticated. If that's the case, I would say you can go with the SL-1200GR. If I can tell anything from my one-day experience, you won't be disappointed.

 

Nice post, it's been fun to follow your audio journey the last few months. It seems like you've pretty much arrived at the place you want to be, though maybe didn't know at first, through a lot of studying and thoughtful (and maybe a little more expensive than planned) upgrades, congrats!

 

Mazel Tov!

 

Good review. I'm glad it turned out to be a worthy upgrade.

 

Thanks @Helom I read it again and found some typos, of course you should read "noise floor" when it says "sound floor" (?), but I can't edit it anymore. I have 7 days to return the GR for free but unless it explodes it's gonna stay.

 

Thanks Davey!

 

I’m very glad to hear how this has worked out for you. I was a bit concerned reading your other thread of buying the 1200G in the US and figuring out a safe/secure way to get it back to Brazil, with all options having notable compromises.

Thanks for sharing your detailed thoughts, looking forward to additional observations you might have.

 

Thanks Shawn, I would love to have a G but I'm glad I won't need to deal with the shipping/checking thing. With the price difference between G and GR, now I have some budget left to buy some records and maybe a new cartridge in North America.

 

What's your cart budget? This will keep your thread alive for a few more months!

 

I could spend up to $800 or so. Let's see what's available. Exchange rates are going worse every day so there's a chance I won't buy any, I'll have to wait to see how currency will behave in the next few weeks.

 

Hana, SH or SL, $750 retail, you should be able to get a discount, too. Rave reviews, you have a good phono and otherwise commensurate gear. Plus the 1210's arm has the necessary adjustments, including azimuth.

 

Thanks for this, very interesting and thorough write-up. I'm not surprised to hear of your experiences. When a table does more to lower noise and resonances from platter and record ringing and from motor vibration and all kinds of other sources, you get exactly the kinds of experiences you describe -- better image focus, bigger soundstage but with instruments more in scale, more low level detail, fewer frequency response anomalies from resonances, high frequency extension that feels more "effortless" and less strained, greater clarity both in the quiet parts of the music (try listening to some jazz or classical with some p to ppp sections) and in the busy parts of the music. Glad you're enjoying your new toy.

 

If I turn off both tables without using their break systems, the Technics platter rotates freely for more time than the Pioneer. I suppose this would be due to a better bearing.

 

Fresher bearing oil too, and a nice smooth thrust plate at the bottom for minimum friction. The plastic thrust plate in the PLX probably wears quickly, as did the one in the old 1200, and most tables. Should really be replaced at lube time, or at least some time, but how many people do? Very few, but it's not very accessible on most tables either. KAB makes one for the old 1200 that includes an oil well, looks to be a good upgrade.

 

I bought 2 Pioneer PLX100 decks, they were great, but just not too convinced by the digital pitches and one tonearm was wobbly out of the box, so, I then bought 2 second hand Technics, but again, they were used and had some problems, so I did them up and sold them.

I really wanted the feel of 2x new Technics, I wanted the analogue pitch, but with the features of the MK5G, as in better tonearm cables etc. So I bought all new parts from suppliers around Europe, USA and UK and built 2x brand new Technics, but with MK5G tonearm assemblies, MK5G buttons, 45 adapters, pitch knobs, which have a lovely champagne silver look, fitted orange LEDs and silver pitch trims and fitted KAB fluid dampers, tonearm rubber wand tubes, resonance caps and Isonoe feet and boots, also fitted the MK5G strobe towers with ressed buttons, and I used Abeltronics gold RCA PCB boards, new analogue pitches and MK5G gold hifi RCA cables...

They look, work and sound amazing through my Tellurium XLR cables and Fcal Shape monitors, if you can't buy new, built it yourself.

I also thought about the Jelco tonearms and some nice tonearm cables, might do that later

 

Nice one, congrats.
I really can't understand what precisely happens with the arm lift which is seen as a flaw on those videos. Can you describe it with other/more words?

 

I'm still figuring out. Maybe I just need to get used to it. It seems to be too high too, maybe I can lower it a bit.

 

In my six months of playing records almost every day with the PLX-1000, I found sibilance in only two records. Coincidentally both cases of sibilance happened with Joey Ramone vocals. In one of them, just two verses in the beginning of the first song (actually it's a 12" 45RPM with two songs per side). In the other, a few verses in the first and in the fourth songs of Side A. With both records I tried three different cartridges and had the same issue. Since no other record had sibilance, only these, with every cartridge, I gave up thinking the records were flawed. I even said that in the thread dedicated to Chris Bellman who mastered and cut the lacquer of one of them, saying that that puzzled me since Bellman's work is always exemplary.

I just remembered that and tried both records with the SL-1210GR. No sibilance.

I'm going back to Bellman's thread to take that back.

 

As others have posted, a well considered review & glad it worked out so well, very pleased for you.

(we've followed your story for a while now but one thing I can't find to congratulate in person...your real name?!)

 

Don't worry about my name, I feel congratulated!
Thanks!

 

Wow your story is awesome unfortunately I have the pro ject debut carbon and for me it’s an actual upgrade because I had the audio technica 120, I have Polk Audio book shelf speakers and a DJ pre II and a insignia receiver, I don’t have the budget you do but I would like to have a more dynamic sound, do you have any suggestions for me should I upgrade receiver or amp or speakers, I actually love the TT and have no hum at all, any help I would greatly appreciate,

 

I'm afraid I can't help, because I don't know your gear. Yes, I think the Pro-ject Debut Carbon should be better than the AT-LP120. It's a good deck: keeps speed, has a good arm, and is silent if it doesn't hum. Maybe the rest of your system have weaker links but I truly can't tell. I've seen people familiar with your stuff suggesting some things to you in other threads though.

 

Thank you for responding, everyone is so nice on these threads

 

Here's a picture from the day the SL-1210GR arrived, I was setting it up to put it in the place the PLX-1000 had occupied for six months.

I've been playing the GR for a week now. My seven days trial are expiring so if I want to return it I must do it today. Since it didn't explode, I won't return it.

I'm used to the arm lift mechanism and now I like it better than the Pioneer. It is more precise when lowering the needle. You just need to be more careful when holding it. The arm adjustments, VTF, VTA and anti-skate, are much tighter and precise, it's like you're really handling a precision tool. It looks the same but work very differently in this sense. Some parts of the arm base in the Pioneer are made of light plastic, while in the Technics everything is solid metal.

One great feature is the torque control. There are three torque settings and it comes factory adjusted to maximum. Just to try it I lowered it to the minimum and found I like it better. It's more fluid, the music flows from the speakers instead of jumping, and it seems more liquid, calm and smooth, less analytic, powerful and impactful. I'm not sure but I guess with less torque as opposed to higher torque the deck sounds closer to how people describe a belt drive by comparison with direct drive. Anyway, you can adjust it to your tastes and to the sound character of your system and room, it's a very nice feature.

The Pioneer has a dark dust cover that is very elegant, I missed it in the first days. On the other hand, I now like a lot the translucent dust cover of the Technics. The lights that enter my room by the windows create a few shinning points in the platter, it's also beautiful.

 

It's great to hear the details about your new turntable with comparisons to the Pioneer. I'm going to flip the script a little though by saying that the Technics sells for twice the amount the PLX-1000 goes for. That cost has been applied, among other areas, in the small turning and locking gear components that you describe. I'm perhaps surprised by how well Pioneer can do at the $700 price point. In any event, it's very helpful for you to examine the small details and describe your experiences here.

On more than one occasion I looked carefully at buying the PLX-1000, and for the price I still may, especially on one of these holidays when retailers offer discounts. On the other hand, if I've had too much wine some evening and my wife gives me the go-ahead, I could see the splurge on the "tighter" machine as well, especially after hearing about the little detail work that has gone into making the Technics a higher level machine.