Much of your analysis if over my head although in terms of listening and experimenting I'm rather experienced after more than 30 years in the high end business. I have recently tried the product, using the lower recommended concentration in a well regarded ultrasonic machine, the darling of the moment. My experience was negative on two fronts. First of all, although I heard some advantages sonically they were swamped by what I can only describe as "groove grunge". I have used different methods of trying to remove this with some, but not total, success. Secondly, and perhaps primarily, I'm in my late 60's and have COPD. After a few days of admittedly intensive use, my breathing issues flared up, rivaling what I dealt with when I had Covid. For those reasons I will no longer use the product, which is known to cause respiratory issues in some situations. I can't state with certainty that it is the cause of the health problem, although I suspect it, but it is absolutely the cause of the noise in the grooves. Once I suspected it I took a few less than prized but excellent condition LP's and recorded them with a very high quality A/D convertor at 24/192. Both the good and bad were clearly evident. Not pops and clicks but lower frequency... garbage heard sporadically through the album. I'm largely a classical listener so this, for me, was the kiss of death. Thanks for your informed post.
If you are referring to Tergikleen, your listening experience is not unexpected. If you read the book PACVR-3rd-Edition (thevinylpress.com) Section IX, it has a section on Tergikleen, and quoting: IX.8.3 If using Tergikleen™ as a single application with no water rinse used at 15-20 drops per gallon should not leave a significant residue behind by itself. At an equivalent of about 260 ppm = 260 mg/L, and if 1 to 2 mL of solution dries on the surface = 0.26 to 0.52 mg can be left behind; and what is left behind will essentially be an oil. However, what is left behind will also contain diluted contaminants from the record and therefore the final residue likely to be higher. There are reports by experienced listeners that the residue left behind is audible and is reported as a ‘veil’ over the high frequency music content. I make no recommend for Tergikleen, other than to provide the data and let the user make their own decisions. Tergikleen residue will not be easily removed since one of the components is not water soluble. If you are referring to ILFOTOL, it depends on the concentration you were using and what version - see Section VIII.6. As far as your COPD, depends on which cleaner you were using. The two components in Tergikleen nonionic Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 are not listed as inhalation irritants, but the 15-S-3 is not water soluble so I could see that as possibly irritating pathways as an aerosol. The 15-S-9 is water soluble and is similar to that used in many dish detergents and shampoos so that is unlikely. The ILFOTOL has a preservative (which are different depending on version), and those can be irritating to some individuals. Otherwise, for final cleaning I make specific recommendations in Chapter IX, but see Section XIV.10 for concentrations to use for final-clean with UT (for Polysorbate 20 - use same as Tergitol 15-S-9). My recommendation for a final cleaner is a pure non-ionic surfactant such Tergitol 15-S-9 (Tergitol 15-S-3 and 15-S-9 Surfactant | TALAS (talasonline.com) - they charge a lot for shipping) or Polysorbate 20 Amazon.com: Polysorbate 20 by Velona - 8 oz | Solubilizer, Food & Cosmetic Grade | All Natural for Cooking, Skin Care and Bath Bombs | Use Today - Enjoy Results : Beauty & Personal Care. In your case because of your COPD I would recommend the Polysorbate 20 because it's the least likely to cause you any discomfort, even though the 15-S-9 is technically better. Hope this is of some help
Question about Tergi-Kleen & the Vinyl Vac: I've been cleaning with a vinyl vac for a little while now, and the results have been pretty good! I do have a question about the "rinse" part of cleaning, though. It seems that "rinse" means two different things - sometimes folks are referring to actually rinsing the album off in a sink, under running water. Other times, it seems like folks are referring to simply spraying some distilled water on the album, rubbing it in a bit, and then vacuuming it off. I'm considering purchasing some Tergi-Kleen solution to use with my vinyl vac, as it seems like folks are generally satisfied with it. If I do end up going that route, it appears that I would simply apply it with a spray bottle or pipette, spread it over the surface of the record with a microfibre cloth, and then vacuum the solution up with my vinyl vac. My hope would be that I could then apply some distilled water, spread it with a different cloth, and then vacuum that up, which would constitute the "rinse." Does this sound like a good process that would result in clean vinyl? Or is it necessary to actually "rinse" the album with tap water in a sink somewhere along the way when using the Tergi-Kleen (or any cleaner, for that matter)? (I considered opening up a new thread for this, but it seems that I am asking for more clarification on things mentioned in this thread, so I thought it would be appropriate to ask here).
Rinsing with a vacuum RCM generally means applying distilled water (DIW) to the record by spray bottle or wash bottle such as 500mL Nalgene Wide Mouth Unitary Wash Bottle: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific, and using a brush to spread and agitate the DIW and then vacuuming. A cheap brush that is easily cleaned (just spray it with DIW), is very effective and will last many years Amazon.com: Record Doctor Clean Sweep Brush : Electronics. You can use the same brush for cleaning and rinsing - rinse the record brush separately before any follow-on step to ensure cleaner is not on the brush. In this instance first rinsing with tap water to remove the cleaner and then a quick spray with DIW or dip in a bowl filled with DIW can work. If you are inclined - there is a free book available Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press. There are a lot of chapters that are very scientific, but Chapter XIII addresses vacuum RCM and a basic cleaning process. Chemical and equipment sources and how to prepare are addressed in Chapters II and III. It's totally up to you how far you want to take this.
heres a silly question - I thought about mixing Tergikleen, 15 or 20 drops into a jug gallon of distilled water, then using that to fill up a 16oz ketchup plastic squeeze bottle - and using that to drip-drop the solution onto the surface of my record, then use Record Doctor to vacuum it off. Then follow with being sprayed with distilled water and vacuumed again. Will the tegikleen solution react or eventually become harmful to the plastic containers? Or become uneffective or some other unpleasant reaction to being in plastic containers?
There should be no problem. The Tergikleen as previously addressed is just a combination of two nonionic surfactants - one water soluble and the other not water soluble, and these are generally compatible with most plastic bottles. Just make sure to do a real good clean of the ketchup bottle - or better yet, buy this Nalgene Dropper Bottle - Amazon.com : Nalgene Drop Bottle (8-Ounce) : Sports Water Bottle Accessories : Sports & Outdoors which is very high quality. You may want to gently shake before use to ensure the Tergikleen is equally mixed noting that one of the nonionic surfactants is not water soluble.
I've been using the ILFOTOL in my spin clean and then vacuuming it off with my record Dr 5 this seemed to be a better cleaner than just water or the soap that came with the spin clean. I heard improvement in sound quality but I was still hearing some slight miss tracking in the high end in certain passages. We are talking about cleaning new records now using the Tergikleen with the same process 18 drops to a gallon of distilled water in my spin clean and then vacuuming it off with my dish Doctor 5 with no rinsing. records are spectacular sounding marked improvement, it's like a veil has been lifted I noticed a certain improvement in sound similar to what last record preservative was doing back in the '80s I do have a question here. why is it so important to rinse the Tergikleen off the records. Sonically I can hear nothing perfectly quiet and a marked improvement in sonics without rinsing, but I ensure when vacuuming the record is perfectly dry. Thank you very much.
I primarily buy new vinyl so my question is if using tergikleen 10 to 20 drops per gallon. Shake well dump it in my ultrasonic machine should I add some ilford 10ml for 2 gallons to help with the wetting process. I then rinse in my vinyl styl which is like a spin clean except uses brushes instead of pads. I usually rotate in one direction for 1 minute and rotate 1 minute in the opposite direction. Obviously using distilled water in both processes. Thank you for your insightful posts
Don't be mixing different cleaning agents (except for IPA). Adding ILFORD ILFOTO is not going to improve the Tergikleen. If you want to dive deeper into why, this free book should answer any questions you have - Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press.
Hi looking for some help. I went to clean some records. I noticed the bottle of tergikleen looked very cloudy/ milky. When I added fifteen drops to my kirmuss ultrasonic to the two gallons of distilled water the Tergikleen looks like it turn to a Waxy particles.. This has never happened before before. Doesn't seem to dissolve after soaking. In the tank. calling on Neil maybe thank you in advance chris
If the concentrated Tergikleen looked very cloudy/ milky, something went wrong. If you have left it exposed to bright light, or stored w/o the cap, it's possible that this led to some kind of decomposition; they are biodegradable. As far as the expiration date, I agree with what is said here: Products — TergiKleen "Dow Chemical says that the shelf life for Tergitol, as used in TergiKleen, is two years. We've never heard of it actually going bad and many people seem to think that the 2 year shelf life claim is just Dow covering its corporate rear end." But I will add that if stored incorrectly, these products can degrade. Otherwise, the two based materials nonionic Tergitol 15-S-3 which is not water soluble but soluble in the nonionic Tergitol 15-S-9 which is water soluble if stored in a dark, cool location should last many years.
Contact Tergikleen and advise them of your situation. There may be a Lot No. on the bottle and they could have had a bad Lot. Is this the new bottle or the old bottle - reference: 3528575443.jpg (1500×1500) (d2j6dbq0eux0bg.cloudfront.net)?
OK, its the new bottle with the separate eye-dropper. When you stored it capped, what did you do with the eye-dropper or did you store it with the eye-dropper attached? A possible risk item with the new bottle is the eye-dropper and cross-contamination that it can cause. The older bottle was immune to this.
If you shake the bottle with the eye-dropper its 'possible' for the Tergikleen to come into contact with the black rubber eye-dropper bulb. Without knowing what the eye-dropper bulb is made of, it's possible it reacted with the Tergikleen. Packaging of concentrated cleaning agents can be a challenge to prevent the cleaning agent from reacting with the package. If you buy again my suggestion (and you can suggest to Tergilkleen) is to not use the eye-dropper and instead transfer from the glass bottle to a Nalgene HDPE dropper bottle - Nalgene 2 oz. Leakproof Travel Dropper Bottle | The Container Store that will not react with the Tergikleen and delivers an accurate 0.04-ml/drop. Factors to consider in accuracy and precision of Nalgene Dropper Bottles (thermofisher.com).
I realized I didn't follow the directions. normally I add the Tergikleen to 1 gallon container then shake well then pour it in the the ultrasonic machine . I mistakenly did not do this today and just add it to the tank. I will try again tomorrow and see if this solve the problem. Thank for the help
You could actually try dropping the normal amount of tergikleen into 100ml of water and let it sit over night. It should dissolve and then you could add it to your larger volume. If it won't dissolve over night then maybe you should contact tergikleen.
I purchased quantities of Tergitol 15-S-3 and Tergitol 15-S-9 to make up my own TergiKleen solution. I found that mixture worked well, cleaned fingerprints and other oil-based contaminates off my LPs but left a sheen on them after drying (using Degritter). I worried the sheen was left over S-3 and that it might migrate up my cantilever and into my cartridge over time. I also had the issue of disposal to worry about. I live in the country and use a bio-system for waste management. The bio-system uses aeration and bacterial action to break down organic waste until it is clean enough to discharge into the drainage ditches that drain the farm fields around me (eventually getting into the river to the sea). The Tergitol 15-S-3 is harmful to aquatic life, so I paid the county waste management to take away my unused S-3 rather than discharge down the drain. I now make up a cleaning solution consisting of degassed distilled water, then diluted Tergitol 15-S-9, then degassed, then Isopropyl alcohol and degassed before use. I do not dry the LP then after washing, but after rinsing with a separate rinse tank. The results are not quite as good as the mixed solutions (doesn't remove finger prints so easy) but doesn't leave a residue on the LPs either, and it is safe to discharge through my bio-system into the water drainage facility hereabouts. I realise that many of you with normal plumbing/sewage probably don't give dumping used solution down the drain a second thought, but please do consider cutting out the S-3 from your mixture as it isn't necessary and eventually gets released back into the environment.
Looks like it dissolved overnight. I just gotta remember to add it to the water in the gallon jug and shake well. Thanks everyone
