“The 3” - A bit of a game

How about David Gilmour?

Fantastic guitar player, and a great singer. He's certainly contributed as a songwriter to classic Pink Floyd. He's not a lyricist though.

But he meets all three criteria if you ask me.

 

Emitt Rhodes & Jeff Buckley (although maybe not quite a world-class musician).

 

How about Nat King Cole?

World class pianist, singer, and songwriter, without doubt.

 

Perhaps George Harrison? Perhaps not the best singer but I think his voice is good enough to make the cut-off, he's got a nice and unique voice, as well as class songwriting skills and great guitar wrangling.

 

Stevie Ray Vaughan.

 

I really can't think of any artist among those that I admire that has all three of these qualities. I can think of many who are world-class in two of the categories, but serviceable in the third -- for example, Iris DeMent is a perfectly serviceable pianist and guitarist on top of being a brilliant songwriter and singer. Brian Wilson is another example (and he might qualify if you take his "instrument" to be the studio).

Here were the closest guesses I could come up with off the top of my head:

* Van Morrison - indisputably a "world-class" singer and songwriter; he has also become one of the better rock and roll saxophonists, a rather small field -- but is he "world-class"? (You'll find 5 more versatile saxophonists in any university jazz program.)
* Marvin Gaye - I'm not sure if he's a "world-class" instrumentalist, but he was an excellent drummer and pianist, definitely more than serviceable.
* Lou Reed - many would dispute him being a "world-class" guitarist or singer, but he has been very influential on both counts
* Roger McGuinn - many would dispute him being a "world-class" singer, but he was the major influence on Tom Petty and Alex Chilton, among many others; his guitar playing is irreproachable and innovative; and he wrote or co-wrote the lion's share of the Byrds' most famous original songs.
* Curtis Mayfield - a fine guitarist - but "world-class"?
* Neil Young - perhaps he doesn't qualify as a singer, but many people cherish his voice

 

I like to think of candidates in terms of the genre that they play in. I think they need to be judged contextually. For example, would you ask Stevie Wonder to write a metal song and expect it to be fantastic?

Locks:
Lindsey Buckingham - Great guitar player. Great songwriter. Great voice. So yes, he's there.
Stevie Ray Vaughn - In the context of the style of music that he does, he hits all three. One of the top rock/blues guitar players of all time, top-notch blues songwriting, and his voice is just perfect for what he does. Yes.

Maybe:
Dave Grohl. The man can write a rock song, that's for sure, and has proved it over and over. Vocals, in context, are great. His screams are great, nearly at the Daltrey level. Not a great guitar player, but his drumming is top notch. He's not technically as sound as say, Neil Peart, but many groups seek him out to play on their records. Queens of the Stone Age & Them Crooked Vultures for example.

Sir Paul. Songwriting - duh. Vocals - duh. His bass playing is very underrated. Contextually, I think his approach to the bass was revolutionary. His parts were creative and very different than what bass players were doing at the time.

Fun to discuss:
Joe Jackson
Jimi Hendrix
Gilmour


Correct me if I'm wrong, Drew, but I think the point is that based on the criteria there won't be too many people with this type of talent around. Just too hard to be great at everything, so there aren't too many.

 

I don't think he had more than a handful of his well-known songs that he wrote himself: Straighten Up and Fly Right being perhaps the most famous. Mostly, he was known for singing other people's songs.

 

Willie Nelson.

 

Most of his more famous work was co-written with others.

 

OK there you go. Now, this gets into a whole other category, wherein the voice is incredibly distinctive but only controversially great. That said, I am on the side of liking his voice and would happily include him in "The 3."

 

The more I think of it, it's got to be Marvin Gaye. He began at Motown as a session drummer and was good enough to play drums on several other people's Motown hits, some of which he wrote (e.g., "Dancing in the Streets.") The rest speaks for itself.

 

Ray Charles & Curtis Mayfield are all Three

 

Ray Charles has come up a number of times, including in this thread. Seems like a valid choice. What's been difficult to ascertain is his songwriting credits. There is a lot of mixed information out there; you will find that he actually co-wrote more than a couple of his famously composed songs, or that his well-known songs were deliberately derivative of other gospel tunes. That said, this thread could use a direct injection of expert knowledge here, so I would appreciate someone explaining his songwriting credits more clearly! Thanks!

And, Curtis Mayfield. Holy cow, he's "The 3" for sure. Nice one.

 

That tidbit about his drumming is interesting - I was unaware. Sounds like a real candidate for "The 3." This is what makes this so cool, at least for me. Nice, nice nice. Thanks!

 

Yeah....When we talk about musical genius then Mayfield should always be up there. There is no end to the mans musical talents. I agree on your points about Ray Charles. He never wrote for long enough but in that short timehe did prove himself to be a solid songwriter!!

 

There is one of those 'Classic Album' TV shows about SITKOL, and Stevie demonstrates how he recorded one song, he lays down some keyboard parts, then adds the drums, and then goes back and fills out the sound with more keyboard work, amazing seeing him do it. He nearly creates the whole thing from scratch on his own, just the horns and a bass player were other people.

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone would be talking about Prince if he was just a singer - he's good, but not exactly world-class.

 

B.B. King
Albert King
Freddie King
Muddy Waters

 

I love all 4 of those but in all honesty a few are questionable on the songwriting front!

 

Elton John and Billy Joel.

 

Macca regularly features in lists of the best vocalists of all time. Granted now he hasn't much of a voice but time was when he had a great voice which suited many different styles.

 

So, let's consider him part of "The 3." I don't need much prodding on that one; just a little to make sure that I am being objective! Thanks!

 

So, see my original post in regard to Elton. In regard to Billy - well, his voice seems more universally lauded than Elton's, but, then again, I have heard much dissension about this as well. I grew up on Long Island, and he and his voice are much-beloved there, so it's hard for me to say that I can be truly objective about him...

In regard to playing "The 3," what's key about this pair is that they are near equal in their perceived greatnesses, and you should either have both of them in, or both out. I am open. I have just been waiting to get this conversation going on a grander scale (this thread!) before coming to a conclusion.

 

Being a co-writer means he's still a songwriter. And PF has some absolutely classic material that he helped write. So he fits the definition if you ask me.