Does anybody own this CD by John Coltrane & Don Cherry? I know there is an Atlantic CD & a Rhino disc, but the Rhino is 4 bucks more or so. Which is the one to pick up? I figure I should ask the experts here. Thanks in advance.
If the mastering history of this disk is anything like that of "My Favorite Things" and "Giant Steps," I'd strongly recommend the original Atlantic over the Rhino. Steve noted in a thread sometime last year that the originals of the Coltrane Atlantic CD's were very close to the sound of the original tapes, while the Rhinos had been--I think his exact words were-- "helped a bit too much." I can't seem to find the thread right now, but if you poke around, you'll find it. I have the Rhino masters on the "Heavyweight Champion" box. They sound OK, but I had always found them a little hard on the ears (smiley EQ? I'm no expert...). I picked up the originals of MFT and GS, and they were a revelation to me. Steve could tell you what exactly is going on, as well as what more could have been done with the tapes in the right hands, but as far as my ears are concerned the originals sound far more natural. A wonderful, dramatic, forceful sound. I assume you will find the same thing with the Cherry/Coltrane disk (which is probably the "lesser" session among the Atlantics, but still full of great stuff). L.
I generally like the Rhino remasters. I only have the Atlantic 8CD box and no Rhino remaster of the Coltrane material, but the Rhino reissues of the Ornette Coleman Atlantic albums are highly improved over the original Atlantic CDs, which sound muffled and lifeless.
There is nothing really *wrong*, per se, with the Rhino Coltranes (and I quite like the Coleman's too, by the way), but there really is something about the original Atlantics (for Coltrane, anyway, I have no idea if this is true for the Colemans). They are flat, and don't have the sharp clarity of the Rhino remasters, but they're anything but muffled and lifeless, at least to my ears. They brought back the original thrill I had hearing that music for the first time, and I immediately regretted having sold a bunch of them when I bought the box. L.
I used to own the Rhino (Not my favorite Trane, but that's another thread). If memory serves, the master tape to this session was lost in the infamous Atlantic vault fire in the 1970s. Thus there are no outtakes from the session, and the same generation tapes were used for the Rhino as the Atlantic (and you can surely guess which has added EQ). FWIW, my favorite Trane from his Atlantic sessions is Ole, and either by coincidence or unconcious knowledge of a pure transfer, this is the disc I've always had the Atlantic CD for... I love that Mini-LP packaging, though. I have Minguses in that packaging too (anyone know how they sound?)
I just got the 2003 Rhino reissue of Ornette Coleman "Ornette!" (european pressing), which is not in a digipack but in a normal transparent jewel case. The sound is really good (compared to Atlantic standards), but the instrument panning is strange: trumpet and bass in the left channel, sax and drums in the right channel.
Thanks for the info all. Do the liners & packaging make the Rhino copy more appealing? I like the liners in some of the other Deluxe Rhino's I have.
I just ordered the Atlantic disc. It was just under 10 bucks whereas the Rhino is over 14. From what I figure, the sound is probably better on the Atlantic copy whereas the packaging is possibly better on the Rhino copy. I chose sound quality and saving 4 bucks. Hope it was the right choice.
Just another note on Ornette. I see that his album ORNETTE! is coming out on CD remastered in the US on 2/4. Is this album worth picking up if you like his other early 60's Atlantic stuff?
Yes. If you like other Atlantic material, you will like "Ornette." All of the Atlantic sessions, including the outakes that have appeared over time are of a piece and wonderful. There's variety at play from session to session (quartet/double quartet, different drummers, some of the performances are more abstract, others have a more bluesy feel, etc.), but the general feel of all of this material is similar and the quality is very high. I'd say, invest in the box! L.
No. I'd have to go take a look at the sessionography of the Box to tell you exactly when its tracks were recorded (they may have originated at different sessions, I simply don't remember), but it was one of the original Atlantic releases. The main outtakes releases came out in the early '70's ("Twins" and "The Art of the Improvisers"). Other outtakes appear on the box, and I'm pretty sure a few others were released here or there over the years. "Twins," by the way, was my very first Ornette. Picked it up from the local library after being intrigued by the excerpt from "Free Jazz" I heard on the Smithsonian Collection of Classic Jazz (also from the library). I still like the short first run-through of FJ very much, and "Check Up" remains my favorite performance of the Atlantic years. The "outtakes" are by no means second-rate leavings. L.
Sounds like I'll have to pick this one up. It's $8.39 at CD Universe. I just received THE (Atlantic) AVANT GARDE from them yesterday and it sounds nice & warm. I really like ART OF THE IMPROVISERS as well. Considering that it's an outtakes album it's fantastic. Particularly the 1st cut. BTW ORNETTE! has a bonus cut, although the title escapes me. Thanks again for the info. I actually just ordered ORNETTE! along with the Beatles FIRST US VISIT DVD since they both come out the same day. $29 bucks & change at CD Universe with shipping included. Not too bad. They always have great prices.
Just received ORNETTE! and I really like it. The pieces are longer and more experimental than most of Coleman's other Atlantic material that I have...apart from FREE JAZZ of course. I like hearing Scott LaFaro on bass here as well. BTW, the bonus track is called "Proof Readers". I am curious about the packaging though. It is in a clear jewel box with "Warner Bros. Jazz Masters" on the spine. Is this a new reissue series from Rhino? The blue & green disc looks the same as the Deluxe Rhino's but maybe it's a new mid-line series. Anybody know? It was remastered by David Donnelly at DNA.
