The BADFINGER Album-By-Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by intv7, Feb 7, 2019.

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  1. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    I think Matovina goes out of his way to put a spotlight on Joey's playing and songs. More than I certainly would.
    I won't say anything else except to agree that the book is essential. The cds that were included are fantatsic
     
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  2. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    I guess there was an issue with the mastering on that Natural Gas album that caused that skipping, and they eventually restocked stores with a corrected version. Not that it really mattered, I guess -- the album wasn't lighting up the charts either way. I like that record quite a bit, but yeah, the production could've been much better. We'll get there -- once we exhaust the Badfinger discography, I'd like to jump into some talk about Natural Gas, The Dodgers, Joey's solo albums, the Pete Ham Ryko titles, etc.
     
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  3. steve phillips

    steve phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC
    It's been many years since I read the book. Do you believe Matovina is "personally" laying blame on Joey and Kathie, or is he just relaying info gathered from interviews from people who were there at the time?
     
  4. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
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  5. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Probably a little from column A, a little from column B. I must admit it's been years since I read it too -- I actually bought a second copy when a revised edition came out (with a new CD) -- but even then, it's been a long time. But I'm not sure if it matters that much if it was a "personal" bias or not. He definitely conveys a definite anti-Joey slant, IMO.

    If memory serves, I recall Matovina defending himself on message boards at the time of the book's release, saying the anti-Molland bias is the result of info gathered from interviews. And of course, any biography, documentary, etc., is going to have a spin -- and I felt like what this book was spinning was "Pete and Tommy -- good, Joey -- bad".

    However, if I recall, Joey's take on it at the time was that he'd been tipped off from people who'd already been interviewed for the book that Matovina seemed to be pushing that line of thinking during interviews. So when Dan came calling for an interview with Joey, he was told "no thanks", and Joey felt like that just added fuel to the fire, and gave him more reason to paint him as the bad guy.
     
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  6. Jay_Z

    Jay_Z Forum Resident

    I will give Joey credit for quitting the band when he did. Recording that Head First was lunacy with what was going on.

    It's not like Polley was related to one of them or a childhood friend. He was just some guy they hired. Why Pete in particular had to go so overboard in the trust department, I don't know.
     
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  7. Chief

    Chief Over 12,000 Served

    No Dice is a step forward, with a few stand out tracks, but not what I consider a particularly consistent album.

    “I Can’t Take It” isn’t too different from the rockers on Magic Christian Music. I Don’t Mind hints at the type of work they did more successfully on Straight Up, but isn’t quite there. I never understood why they had a song called “Love Me Do”, which was also an unusual Beatles song title. I can imagine McCartney getting the phrase stuck in his mind and not changing it. It doesn’t make sense to me to write a song from scratch with the title. It’s an average track which isn’t as good as the uptempo tracks on Magic Christian Music. Three songs in, and No Dice is an average follow up album so far.

    Then... everything changes and Badfinger becomes BADFINGER with “Midnight Caller”. Other than overall high quality of writing, there is almost no precedent for something this good in their work thus far. “Dear Angie” and “Maybe Tomorrow” hinted at this. “Midnight Caller” is a major step forward. It’s another classic that should have put the band in the upper echelons of pop music.

    And then... “No Matter What”. One of the best pop rock songs written. What more can be said about it? These two tracks are where Badfinger becomes one of the great bands of the era. It’s perfect.

    “Without You” was made into a standard by Nilsson. It shows how important the arrangement is. I suppose Badfinger could have done a similar arrangement had it occurred to them. I love Nilsson’s version, but if you don’t want the histrionics, the Badfinger version has nearly everything. It’s a great song, and stands perfectly fine as is. One gets the sense that Pete didn’t know what he had done with this song.

    “Blodwyn” brings us down to earth. It’s a good performance, but nothing special. “Better Days” is another strong rock song. “It Had To Be” is unassuming, but beautiful. Again, it reminds me of work they did on Straight Up.

    “Watford John” seems like another placeholder, along the lines of “Love Me Do”. Then “Believe Me” takes us back to the stratospheric heights from the first side of the album. Another great song. “We’re For The Dark” is a great closer from Pete.

    No Dice is an exceptional album for the peaks it contains. There is one standard, and three additional classic rock tracks. As a listening experience, it’s an uneven album.
     
  8. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Some great comments, and hints at Badfinger's growth on the next album.

     
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  9. Celebrated Summer

    Celebrated Summer Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Always found No Dice a mixed bag. There are a lot of high moments, virtually all of which come from Pete Ham. Side one is fab (with one clunker - see below). But most of side two comes off as weak or forced to me, with the exception of "We're For The Dark."

    In the old days, people used to always call Badfinger a Beatles copy band. So they did themselves no favors using the title "Love Me Do" for a rather bland original tune and recycling part of the melody and chord scheme of "Oh! Darling" for "Believe Me." In college, I would play this album and people would laugh when "Believe Me" came on and blurt out "Beatles rip-off!"

    Because of things I'd read, I used to dismiss most of Magic Christian Music as mere post-psychedelia (or post-British Invasion pop). But in retrospect there is a sense of adventure on that album that the later ones lack.

    Plus, I don't think Joey's songwriting ever blended well with Pete's. Pete could be both John and Paul: Very deep on some tunes, but solidly commercial (but still good) on others. As nice as some of Joey's songs are, they often have a journeyman quality about them. Too much democracy made this version of group's albums uneven -- in their tone, their quality, or both.
     
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  10. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    When first picked up No Dice record i appreciated the little differences in songwriting, but gotta admit Pete's songs and playing were way up from two tracks enjoyed off MCM album (Midnight Sun/Crimson Ship). Once Straight Up album was out i went back and relistened to No Dice album and enjoying it including Joey's "Better Days", a great Rock & Roll song.

     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  11. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    THANK YOU for pointing this out. The melody, chord sequence -- as well as the lyric "believe me..." -- has always seemed to me like a subconscious lift of "Oh! Darling", and I completely forgot to mention this earlier. Makes it tough for me to really get behind that tune.
     
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  12. steve phillips

    steve phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC
    My two favorite albums by them are No Dice and Straight Up, because of the strong Beatles influence. I've never considered it a rip-off. They had enough of their own personality to make it work. They started moving away from that, starting with Ass, into a more modern heavy guitar sound. I like that one, as well as S/T, and Wish You Were Here, but just not as much. I need to get MCM and Head First.
     
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  13. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Joey told everyone at the time he was writing a book and he'd clear everything up.
    The book surfaces and guess what, he discusses nothing.
    Not even a half hearted attempt at defending his wife.
    It sure doesn't make him guilty of anything, but to bad mouth Matovina for years and offer no alternative explanation except to say he was writing a book...... then the book comes out and he's silent. That's pretty odd
     
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  14. steve phillips

    steve phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC
    I agree, Better Days is great. Maybe my favorite of his. It's been too long since I pulled out the albums. Pete's songs will always be my favorite. He had the magic touch. I'll never forget as a kid hearing that first batch of singles on AM radio.
     
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  15. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    This is great live version from British TV, Pete's playing is awesome very different energy on stage!


     
  16. Beatledust

    Beatledust Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Thanks to this thread, I'm on another Badfinger jag. "We're For The Dark" is my favorite song from the "No Dice" album. Many thanks to the OP for posting this thread, because anytime is Badfinger time.
     
  17. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    The Dcc is so good, I swear you can hear his hands hitting the guitar strings
     
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  18. Beatledust

    Beatledust Forum Resident

    Location:
    Salt Lake City, UT
    I have the DCC, as well. It's been a while, since I've fired it up. So, I need to revisit that ASAP.
     
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  19. botfinger

    botfinger Forum Resident

    Location:
    Japan
    "Better Days" of Japan LP "No Dice" is a single edited version. So I was surprised when I bought US LP. A rare long version "Better Days"! But after a while, I realized that Japan LP is actually rare. The German version is the same as Japan.
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. longdist01

    longdist01 Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    The 2010 Apple Remaster has bit more detail, but i still enjoy the Gold DCC Steve worked on!

    Sadly DCC/AF never licensed for reissue the later two Warner albums....really wish they did.

     
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  21. Chief

    Chief Over 12,000 Served

    The Beatles comparison is unfortunate. However, between being signed to the Beatles' label, debuting with a McCartney song, and being produced by the occasional Beatle, I suppose the comparison is inevitable.

    Badfinger was a better group than they were given credit for, right from the beginning. There are Beatles influences, but they don’t overwhelm the band, or limit them in any way. The group also eventually outgrew their Beatles influences.

    Beyond that, Pete Ham was a brilliant song writer in his own right.
     
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  22. steve phillips

    steve phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC
    I gave a listen to Ass last night. That sounds funny dosen't it? ;) It's much better than I had remembered. I hadn't played it in years. "Get Away" is another good Joey rocker. I'm not crazy about "Icicles." It's just OK. "Apple Of My Eye" is a classic Pete ballad. "Blind Owl" is great. A pretty strong album overall.
     
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  23. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Straight Up
    Produced by Todd Rundgren, George Harrison
    Apple Records
    Released December 1971 (US)
    Released February 1972 (UK)

    [​IMG]

    Side 1:

    Take It All
    Baby Blue
    Money
    Flying
    I’d Die Babe
    Name Of The Game

    Side 2:

    Suitcase
    Sweet Tuesday Morning
    Day After Day
    Sometimes
    Perfection
    It’s Over

    1993 CD Bonus Tracks:

    Money (Original Version)
    Flying (Original Version)
    Name Of The Game (Original Version)
    Suitcase (Original Version)
    Perfection (Original Version)
    Baby Blue (US Single Mix)

    2010 CD Bonus Tracks:

    I’ll be The One
    Name Of The Game (Earlier Version)
    Baby Blue (US Single Mix)
    Baby Please
    No Good At All
    Sing For The Song

    2010 Digital Bonus Tracks:

    Money (Earlier Version)
    Flying (Earlier Version)
    Perfection (Earlier Version)
    Suitcase (Earlier Version)
    Sweet Tuesday Morning (Earlier Version)
    Mean, Mean Jemima
    Loving You

    [​IMG]

    Straight Up, the third Badfinger album, is (IMO) their peak moment in every possible way. With each release so far getting better and better, this one really blows the earlier albums away. The band initially recorded the intended follow-up to No Dice with Geoff Emerick in early 1971 -- but Apple rejected the 12-track album. Although Apple was probably correct in their assessment that there wasn't a fantastic single on the album of the caliber of "No Matter What", the rejected album overall, which has been released on bootlegs and eventually as bonus material on CD reissues, is probably superior to No Dice.

    Surely frustrated, Badfinger was then brought back to the studio with George Harrison producing. They cut about a third of an album (including the soon-to-be huge hit "Day After Day") before George exited the project to focus on the Concert For Bangla Desh. Apple brought in Todd Rundgren to finish the record, and they cut some new takes of some of the previously rejected material, in addition to some new songs. As other bands would echo in later years, working with Rundgren was difficult, with Todd taking a lot of creative control of the proceedings, but the end result is staggering. "Baby Blue", "Money", "Flying", "Name Of The Game", "Suitcase", "Perfection", "Sweet Tuesday Morning"....the list goes on. These songs and recordings are triumphs. This is their real shining moment as a band and as a recording entity. This is as good as it gets, folks.

    "Day After Day" went to #4 in America and #10 in the UK. "Baby Blue" hit #14, while Straight Up charted at #31 in the US.


    [​IMG]
     
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  24. steve phillips

    steve phillips Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC
    Very nice post. The high point for sure. If you could only have one, this is it.

    Sorry I jumped ahead of this one, on my last post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2019
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  25. MarcS

    MarcS Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Makes sense; by the time Joey joined Paul wanted nothing to do with Apple.
     
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