The Beatles' "Rubber Soul" - Putting together the proper tracklist

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by yesstiles, Dec 23, 2017.

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  1. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    No, if I wanted the mods to "restrain his voice", I would have reported him. I haven't. I think it's better if users can talk and work out any situation, that's why I just asked for a return to music talk and stop the personal attacks.

    And I'm not implying anything, I'm just saying what I saw. If you want me to provide quotes, I can do it. But again, I think it's better if we focus on the music.
     
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  2. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    There's nothing forward-looking about using the "singer-songwriter approach", which was well-established by that point. The songs "Drive My Car", "Nowhere Man", "Think for Yourself", and "The Word" were the forward-looking ones, in both style and content.
     
  3. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Those songs you mention are very contemporary sounding (as is the rest of both albums, though ‘Run For Your Life’ is a tad retro). The singer-songwriter approach would carry music into the 70s and beyond and allow the Beatles to go their separate ways.
     
  4. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    In America, yes.

    Remember, over here we didn't need John, Paul, George, Martin, Epstein, Aspinall, Evans, Kelly, or Starkey. What they did in the UK produced tape that was shipped across the Atlantic. What we needed then was someone to take charge of all the tracks and artwork and make sense out of it for the American market. Dave Dexter Jr. did his job brilliantly. A smashing success. A revolution in recorded pop music in early '64, a critical maturing pivot in late '65, some important tweaks in '66, and then once the Beatles themselves followed Dexter's lead and learned how to do it right, they just built the albums the American way from the start.
     
  5. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    [DP]
     
  6. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Agreed. Please stop being so ornery. The tone of the conversation actually begins with you both here and in other threads. Be civil, others will surely follow.

    Cheers.
     
  7. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    You jest, but I'd really like an answer to this post (below) as I think it is rather intriguing:

     
  8. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Ok.
    The AHDN film would still have got made, as the arrangements had already been made long before Capitol had got on board.
     
  9. Wildest cat from montana

    Wildest cat from montana Humble Reader

    Location:
    ontario canada
    If The Beatles had flopped in America we wouldn't be having so much fun talking about Dave Dexter Jr.
    Schnitzerphilip , you are truly unique..
     
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  10. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Thanks, Slane.
    It's the proverbial water hose of erroneous information.
     
  11. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    In fact it was the foresight of United Artists (in mid-1963, well ahead of Dexter and Capitol) that got them the rights to the soundtrack album in the US (one of the reasons for them making the film).
     
  12. Evethingandnothing

    Evethingandnothing Forum Resident

    Location:
    Devon
    Apologies if it seems that way, but for my part I can't seem to get a straight answer from him to my posts. He always switches the conversation. Not to mention putting in ridiculous unfounded barbs. He wrote:

    I've pointed out that "The Beatles had strong UK competition from The Stones, The Who, Yardbirds, Pretty Things, Kinks, The Animals and others throughout 1965. And that's not even counting the Merseybeat bands."
    I don't see why I should have to even say that. It's bleedin' obvious. Rubber Soul came out at the end of the year.

    Plus, I really like Beatles For Sale. I am a Beatles fan. Schnitzer goes way beyond professing to not like the odd Beatles tune to wholesale dismissal of half of their catalogue. Plus he calls George Martin a comedy producer, fair enough, but what was Dexter? From what I've read he was a comedy and classical producer, just like Martin.

    Anyways, rather than reply to my posts he once again switches the conversation from Rubber Soul in 1965 to this (below), which doesn't address any of my posts but merely once again bigs up Dexter, this time about The Beatles arrival in the US in 1964, and quite off topic to what I thought we were talking about:

    As everyone knows, The Beatles were on a steady rise in popularity. However, Dexter actually stalled their US success by initially turning them down at Capitol and they had to go to a smaller label Vee Jay. Whilst they may not have been entirely successful at Vee Jay, they were making some inroads into the US market. So why is this not mentioned in any of Schnitzer's appraisals of "the facts"?

    And last night I couldn't be bothered to reply to these evasive tactics and cheap dismissals of the British music scene. Is he gonna address my replies? Likely not, it'll just be another switch in the conversation to big up Dexter some other way, or to denigrate the British music scene in some way, for instance saying there was no British folk music scene in '65 to support one argumentative slant, and in another post saying there was a British folk music scene in '65 in order to once again respond argumentatively. How am I supposed to reason with that?

    I personally have no problem with Capitol or Dave Dexter Jr. The problem is that I don't get any straight answers from Schnitzer to my posts. Hence my curt responses at times. Apologies for that. But, hey, it's only rock'n'roll, or folk, or something.
    And it's not a big deal. Just that there's not really any give or acknowledgement of other people's points of view from him. Like talking to a brick wall. The humour is fine, but mix it in up some proper discussion, eh?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  13. Cronverc

    Cronverc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn,NY
    IMO any arguing at this point is just pointless. This should be mental, just nuts.

    Guys, just stop "feeding" the troll. Just ignore him.
     
  14. dsdu

    dsdu less serious minor pest

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    From December 1963
    [​IMG]

    Once Capitol decided to spend $40,000 ($333,000 in 2019 dollars) to promote the Beatles, they were armed to conquer America.
     
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  15. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
    I've Just Seen a Face
    Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
    You Won't See Me
    Think For Yourself
    The Word
    Michelle
    It's Only Love
    Girl
    I'm Looking Through You
    In My Life
    Wait
    Run For Your Life

    Added Bonus Tracks:

    If I Needed Someone
    Nowhere Man
    Drive My Car
    What Goes On

    I think history has spoken.
     
  16. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Yesterday and I’ve Just Seen A Face are not at all folk songs. People are redefining folk to be acoustic ballads. The lyrics and subject matter of folk is completely missing in these 2 songs.
     
  17. drad dog

    drad dog A Listener

    Location:
    USA
  18. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    So no Folk Ballads allowed in Folk music anymore? That's a shame.
     
  19. John Harchar

    John Harchar Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Or

    Drive My Car
    Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)
    You Won't See Me
    Nowhere Man
    Think For Yourself
    The Word
    Michelle
    What Goes On
    Girl
    I'm Looking Through You
    In My Life
    Wait
    If I Needed Someone
    Run For Your Life

    Added bonus tracks:

    I've Just Seen a Face
    It's Only Love

    Depends what accent history had when it spoke. :tiphat:
     
  20. Claudio Dirani

    Claudio Dirani A Fly On Apple's Wall

    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil


    I'm not sure if it's correct.
    I'm almost sure that Day Tripper/We Can Work It Out weren't meant for the LP.
     
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  21. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    I see now that roots music is also considered folk. Which is a much more comprehensive way of defining. I am very much influenced by what folk was generally known as in the Sixties. The below article under the subsection of Folk and American Folk Revival is what I associate as folk. Rather than roots and traditional nativists music. But via some research I see now that folk is also roots and traditional music. Sixties folk was political and had much social commentary to it. Political Activism in music.
    Music and politics - Wikipedia
     
  22. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Folk has ballads but just because a song is a ballad doesn’t make it folk. Unless you consider The Carpenters folk.
     
  23. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    So an acoustic folk ballad isn't an acoustic folk ballad anymore?
     
  24. dsdu

    dsdu less serious minor pest

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    [​IMG]
     
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  25. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Modern Dad" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    1. United Artists only was interested in doing the film so as to get the US rights to the soundtrack album and scoop Capitol.

    2. Filming started on March 2, a month after the Beatles Ed Sullivan performance.

    3. Had the Beatles bombed either on the US charts in January or on Sullivan in February, UA would have cut their losses and killed the movie prior to March.
     
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