The Beatles' "Rubber Soul" - Putting together the proper tracklist

A1. Drive My Car
A2. Norwegian Wood
A3. You Won't See Me
A4. Nowhere Man
A5. Think For Yourself
A6. The Word
A7. Michelle

B1. We Can Work It Out
B2. If I Needed Someone
B3. Girl
B4. I'm Looking Through You
B5. In My Life
B6. Day Tripper
B7. Wait

 

Those UK LP approaches worked fine in the UK - where people didn't buy albums as much as they did singles.

In the US it was a different ballgame.

With The Beatles (compared to Meet The Beatles) would have been a horrible 'Here they are!' grand launch for a Capitol album representing The Beatles in the US. Capitol was well aware of this. WTB is practically medieval in its make-up and presentation compared to MTB.

Will any UK-album champions admit this?

Meet The Beatles presented The Beatles to the new world as a band that wrote all their own material (except for one familiar Broadway song off it). That was a big factor in giving the band credibility among the press, fans, bystanders, and their fellow showbiz people in general. (Even George gets a songwriting credit on this Capitol debut; he's not just the lead guitarist.) That album sold more than five million copies.

Capitol hit the US public with a great selection of what was available at the time, also reaching back into PPM land with that album's most exciting cut.

 

I wouldn't change anything. I have the UK and US versions. Both are great. Both sold like hotcakes. The "We Can Work It Out"/"Day Tripper" single sold like hotcakes. It was over 50 years ago. Eh.

 

SIDE 1:
1. I've Just Seen A Face
2. Norwegian Wood
3. You Won't See Me
4. Think for Yourself
5. The Word
6. Michelle

SIDE 2:
1. It's Only Love
2. Girl
3. I'm Looking Through You
4. In My Life
5. Wait
6. We Can Work It out

 

I don't like DMC either. I prefer the two other songs you mention actually (even WGO!). I don't think I even ever did really like DMC. It sounds too cute (twee) for the rest of the album. Plus I never liked the tone of the lead guitar (Paul's?). Replace with any selection from the American-only track listing of the album, and I'm all set. No touch the single (WCWIO/DT)!

 

Just coincidence. They were the last two unreleased (in the US) songs from 'Help!'. Capitol also removed Nowhere Man and If I Needed Someone, both of which fit your imagined folk rock scenario far better than Run For Your Life or Wait.

 

Meet the Beatles wasn't designed to 'showcase that the Beatles wrote their own songs'- neither Alan Livingstone nor Dave Dexter were remotely interested in that. They just thought the non-Lennon/McCartney songs from With The Beatles would sound old hat to US kids who would likely remember the original US versions from earlier years. They then added the single (of course) with it's US and UK B sides. Till There Was You was left on as Dave Dexter considered it the only halfway decent track on the album. There was no grand plan by Capitol, they just wanted a hit album that sold a lot, no other motive. They had no idea it would sell so many, they reckoned the Beatles would be over by Christmas.
And it makes me laugh when US fans rave about how awful with The Beatles is, yet in the same breath swoon over the magnificence of Meet The Beatles and The Beatles' Second Album. Truth is, it wasn't Capitol who made the Beatles, it was the Beatles. Their songs, their voices, their music. Any 12 Beatles tracks would make a great album. There's nothing about side 2 of Meet the Beatles that can in any sense be described as "great", certainly far far less of a side than side 1. Capitol just had the good fortune ($$$) to be ordered by Joseph Lockwood, head of parent company EMI to release the Beatles records after they had rudely turned them down twice.

 

John complained about a lot of things, and was not always right, but on this subject I was not talking about complaints about album covers and that sort of thing. Did any of the Beatles ever complain specifically about the song lists on Capitol releases? About their choice of what went on what album? Did they really think The Beatles Second Album was some sort of travesty?

 

Why do you think they were complaining about album covers? Yes, they complained about THE SONGS. They complained that there were SINGLES on albums. They complained that there were TOO FEW tracks on albums. They complained that SONGS were kept back and released months later. Specific enough? In 1965 they again complained, in fact to Alan Livingstone himself, and later John complained to Dave Dexter. In 1966 The Beatles again loudly complained, to reporter Larry Kane, and finally, at the end of the year, inserted a clause into their new EMI contract that all records would be released in the US exactly as they were in the UK from then on (unless agreed otherwise). John remained annoyed about the song selections and compilations of their 1963-66 catalogue for the rest of his life. What in all that leads you to think The Beatles were thrilled with Capitol?

As for The Beatles' Second Album, well it was a travesty. A gutted With The Beatles filled up to near-album length by cobbling together whatever other previously-rejected songs from 1963 Capitol could dig up and three brand new songs? Paul gets to sing just one track? Just another hack job by Dave Dexter.

 

One thing I don't understand, of the 2 Harrison songs they used Think For Yourself, probably the least folky sounding song on the album and didn't use If I Needed Someone which would fit in with the folk mood everybody's talking about.
I don't get the US Rubber Soul is a folk album hype. I mean, it is great album (US Rubber Soul), because the songs are great. But everytime I play it and it's finished I can't get rid of the feeling that it's somewhat incomplete.

Ondra

 

So, in other words it was designed to showcase the Beatles songwriting talents, by leaving off the cover songs. Who needs covers songs when you've got Beatles originals.

Or it wasn't? Which is it? You seem to want it both ways - saying Capitol didn't plan it, even if Captiol consciously got rid of the cover songs.

The eleven originals (to the eight on With) gives Meet the all-around edge and is a much better introduction to the band than With.

It says on the back cover of Meet The Beatles:

'The foursome write, play and sing a powerhouse music filled with zest and uninhibited good humor that make listening a sensation-filled joy. It isn’t rhythm and blues, it’s not exactly rock ’n’ roll. It’s their own special sound, or, as group leader John Lennon puts it, ‘Our music is just - well, our music.'...'

Meanwhile, the back cover of With The Beatles devotes half its space to talking about the cover songs that take up a good portion of With.

 

It had nothing to do with who wrote the songs, just that kids might not buy an album with old songs on it. That's why they emphasised the songs were all (mostly) new. It was Brian Epstein, Dick James and EMI that insisted on highlighting Lennon/McCartney in the sleeve notes, not a whim of Capitol's. Please Please Me had done the same job in March 1963.

 

I've thought about that before. ' TFY' is the rockingest song from the sessions, practically. But it somehow still fits in with the flow of the US RS. I guess that it shows that it wasn't about the wholesale getting rid of rock songs in favor of folk or folk-rock to create the US RS; in truth, 'Nowhere Man' and 'Need Someone' are folk-rock in essence. Maybe it was simply about making an album that 'felt right' and without too much splicing and rearranging of the master tape.

They wanted 'Nowhere Man' for a single and took it. 'Drive My Car' is borderline A-side material itself; mindless, but catchy with a groove and lyrical and musical hooks galore; maybe it was a back-up single choice? Cutting 'What Goes On' was probably a no-brainer (or someone didn't like Ringo). But why keep 'Run For Your Life' instead of 'Needed Someone'? Maybe having two George songs on the album was considered a tad too dour.

Who really knows.

 

So you think that With The Beatles would have been a perfectly good 1964 debut album for The Beatles for Capitol in the US?

What two or three songs would you cut from it? The Lennon-McCartney ones?

'Any 12 tracks would make a great album'.

 

I think What Goes On fits very well, everything from Help! and the Singles... not so much. Very different sound.

 

AND.......then there is THIS from George Harrison:

George Harrison himself said that there wasn't “much difference between Rubber Soul and Revolver. To me, they could be Volume 1 and Volume 2”3.

 

Yes

Why cut any. It's just Capitol convention to have 11 or 12 songs.

So you don't think this random set:
Side 1
1. I Saw Her Standing There
2. Baby It's You
3. Devil in Her Heart
4. From Me To You
5. All My Loving
6. She Loves You

Side 2
1. I Wanna Be Your Man
2. Thank You Girl
3. All I've Gotta Do
4. There's A Place
5. I'll Get You
6. Twist and Shout
is as good if not better an album than Meet The Beatles or Second album?

 

Not to disrespect the guy, but I’ve always thought that was a ridiculous statement. They’re incredibly different. The only that sounds even a little bit similar is And Your Bird Can Sing, which I think could’ve been on Rubber Soul by sound. Everything else is wildly different. Wildly. Wild. Ly.

 

It wasn't only that the suits thought they knew better. It was also, if not primarily, that they wanted to maximize profits by issuing more LP's containing fewer tracks. I recall in particular that Dave Dexter was gleeful about what a rip-off the American version of the "Help!" LP was that he had cobbled together and even charged more for since it came in a gatefold sleeve.

 

I'd say Meet The Beatles is still the better and more cohesive album for January '64.

Thank goodness things turned out the way they did, re: 1964. We all lucked out. I wouldn't change the UK or the US discography, even if it would have been interesting to get a live album or see what whacky stuff Capitol would have done during the 1967-1970 years.

If George Martin had his way, 'How Do You Do It' might have been the Beatles' debut US single in 1963.

 

I generally agree with you - not George in this case. But in addition to “Bird”; I can hear an argument being made for I’m Only Sleeping, I Want To Tell You amd Dr Robert.

 

You think What Goes On blends with You Won't See Me, Norwegian Wood, In My Life, Girl, I'm Looking Through You etc better than I've Just Seen a Face and It's Only Love?

 

I’m trying to find some sort of interview with Dave Dexter to see what he was thinking, came across this and thought it worthy of posting up.

 

BTW- that’s George saying they could be Volumes 1,2, not I.

 

I don't know which suit axed "What Goes On" from the album, but I would have given him a raise for that decision.