The Beatles: UK Response to US Capitol versions?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by John Porcellino, May 18, 2016.

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  1. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Custom Title" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    Nice try.

    Vee Jay printed 6000 LP covers and had the masters ready to go into production in July '63 but the bust of all the other Beatles material on Vee Jay, Swan, Tollie, etc. made them cancel the project. Once word got out about Capitol's interest in the band, Vee Jay then decided to start mass production. Oh and Introducing The Beatles at #2? LOL. Hear The Beatles Tell All made it to #2 as well, I recall reading on some charts it made it to #1 in November of that year. Any Beatles LP would have sold in America in '64. What's interesting is what didn't sell in '63. You know, all the UK smash hits.

    Of course we did. Unquestionably, Capitol Records blew the year 1963. Point is, once they recovered from their oversight and having the luxury of a one-year back catalog of LP's and singles to choose from, Dave Dexter and the label did a masterful job of playing catch-up. And, it should be added, walking through the minefield of issues and song limits with Vee Jay and United Artists contracts, it's one of the great accomplishments of modern record company operations.
     
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  2. A well respected man

    A well respected man Some Mother's Son

    Location:
    Madrid, Spain
    Stop with that nonsense. They were not "getting traction", they were exploiting the riches of their success in those countries.


    That is a stupid thing to say.


    Of course the conquer of the US market was a great breathru for them, but more in terms of fame and money than musically. They lived and worked in the UK, so I see no reason why they wouldn't have come up with albums like those eventually.
     
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  3. merterhenz

    merterhenz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Berlin
    Yeah, that was a thing back here ... there were lots of German versions of English and American songs, which sound very cute nowadays. Some examples:
    • The Searchers - Tausend Nadelstiche (Needles and Pins)
    • The Supremes - Baby, Baby wo ist unsere Liebe (Where did our love go)
    • Beach Boys - Ganz Allein (In My Room)
    • Johnny Cash - Wer kennt den Weg (I Walk The Line)
    • Spencer Davis Group - Det war in Schöneberg (this is actually a beat version of a German operetta from 1913!)
    ... and so on. By the mid 60s, the fad faded away.
     
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  4. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    My recollections are similar to those of nikh33, except that I only bought MMT and Hey Jude.

    In the mid-1970s I picked up this EMI International brochure in the UK that lists most of the Capitol albums, including Help! but not Rubber Soul or Revolver. Some - such as Something New - appear to be the (not-hard-to-find) German versions. The inclusion of MMT suggests a date earlier than November 1976.

    Until relatively recently (!) it was my only option to look at pictures of the US sleeves in colour.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    For anyone around at the time, some of these albums ('Masters of Rock', for instance) will look mind-numbingly familiar.
     
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  5. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    I like this twice. Possibly more.
     
  6. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Wrong, it was VJ's top management's fraud case that cancelled a lot of things in summer 63, nothing directly concerning The Beatles.
    Quite. So how is Capitol's Meet the Beatles so special if any Beatles record could be a number one? Try and marshal your facts a little at least.
    You mean all those exact same UK smash hits that became US smash hits in 1964? Your point, if there is one, seems negligible at best.



    Ladies and gentlemen, this is how you convince yourself a failure was a raving success. Capitol, being forced by parent group EMI in London to quit jerking around and do the job they could and should have done six months earlier, is 'one of the great accomplishments of modern record company operations'. It's 1984, newspeak is here. As we say in London, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery and It's Quicker by Tube.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  7. moofassa_ca

    moofassa_ca Senior Member

    I have the Pepper marble vinyl as well. Nice to look at and have as a collectable. My One box EMI/Parlophone Stereo gets played a helluva lot more tho!
     
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  8. schnitzerphilip

    schnitzerphilip "Custom Title" Unlocked Award

    Location:
    NJ USA
    I'll have you know that I've watched every episode of Downton Abbey and Victoria so I know a thing or two about the Queen's English.

    (Since someone is about to take that literally for the sake of a snappy check-your-facts-stop-embarrassing-yourself comeback, I will tell you that was a joke, not meant to be taken seriously, love.)
     
  9. humpf

    humpf Allowed to write something here.

    Location:
    Silesia
    Actually it continued until early 80s, check ABBA or Petr Gabriel.

    (This post of mine was deleted few minutes ago - for back and forth arguing. Since this is my third post in this thread in two weeks, I guess it was just a mistake.)
     
  10. Hardy Melville

    Hardy Melville Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I of course agree with your point here about sequencing being preferable in the US version, but it is going to far to say What Goes On is garbage. It's kind of an oddity to be sure as a throwaway cover, but it fits Ringo's range, and has a nice solo from George. But as a lead off song on side 2? A very bad choice.

    I also like Drive My Car very much, but totally agree it is a poor fit especially as an opener here.

    I have some compilation cd's I made myself, and b comparison on Rubber Soul I put the 3 Lennon songs away from the rest of Y&T, but as a bridge into first Paperback Writer and Rain before going into Taxman and the rest (deleting Yellow Submarine of course and thank God). For the four deleted off the US RS, though, I have them all separate from the US sequence. It sounds much better.
     
  11. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    San Mateo, CA, USA
    This is absurd.
     
  12. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    San Mateo, CA, USA
    Okay, first, you know that Capitol didn’t “save” Face for Rubber Soul for any sort of artistic reaaon, right? It wasn’t ready in time for Beatles VI, so it didn’t get sent over until the Help soundtrack was finished at the end of June. By default it would’ve gone on the next LP. The Beatles could’ve decided their next LP was going to be a response to The Who, full of feedback and the wildest drumming Ringo had ever played, but Capitol would’ve still put Face on there. Same is true for It’s Only Love.

    Second, you do realize there were groups like the Kinks and The Who that achieved financial success, artistic triumph and critical and popular respect despite not being big in America in the sixties? You’re mistaking correlation (the Beatles’ artistic accomplishments after 1964) with causation (“it must be due to the US!”).

    Third, you surely know that many disagree with you about Drive My Car. How do we resolve this dispute about that song’s appropriateness as a lead off track, since not everyone agrees? Should we defer to you/the company that also thought it’d be great to use one of eleven tracks to showcase a German-language “novelty song” (to use your words), or the Beatles themselves?
     
  13. mbleicher1

    mbleicher1 Tube Amp Curmudgeon

    Location:
    San Mateo, CA, USA
    As an aside, John Lennon thought “It’s Only Love” was garbage. See how this gets complicated?
     
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  14. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I can answer some of these (though you're writing to someone else).

    Or been future B-sides, which they weren't used for.

    Would love to hear that.

    The Kinks did decently in America and were banned there from 1965-1969, so they really had no choice in the matter. They didn't stay away from America because they wanted to.

    The Who made it a point to make it in America in their own way - making heir major US debut at the Monterey Pop Festival in '67.

    Americans got the experience of hearing 'Drive My Car' open an album - on Yesterday & Today in mid-1966. They also got the experience, later, of hearing 'Drive My Car' lead into 'Norwegian Wood' - on the Red album. (The UK got that combination twice - 'Drive My Car' leading into 'Norwegian Wood', so it was entrenched in their minds and then reinforced.)

    'I've Just Seen A Face' leading into 'Norwegian Wood' is what Americans associated with the Beatles Rubber Soul album, first, since 1965, before 'Drive My Car' was even on the radar. And 'Drive My Car' - while a good lead-off song in its own right - was known as the first song on Y&T.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  15. gja586

    gja586 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gogledd Cymru
    But Rubber Soul isn't an acoustic folk rock album. It's a typically eclectic, mid-period Beatles album and so Drive My Car fits in just fine. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  16. gja586

    gja586 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gogledd Cymru
    Very true; but he probably said that most of his songs were garbage at some point. :agree:
     
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  17. Raf

    Raf Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Um, no. John was damn proud of most of his songs.
     
  18. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    Do your avatars want to fight it out?
     
  19. nikh33

    nikh33 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, England
    Yes, the Capitol Rubber Soul was so influential and revered that Capitol itself used the UK running order when compiling 62-66.
     
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  20. gja586

    gja586 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gogledd Cymru
    I'm sure he was and rightly so. However, in the 70s he seem somewhat dismissive of many Beatles tracks, albeit probably only for the length of the interview in question.
     
  21. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    I don't know about that. There were some unique-to-Capitol mixes used on the American 1962-1966. Including the James Bond Help! intro. But George Martin's involvement would have had the comps being uniformly chronological according to UK standards, I'm guessing (were they? I haven't double-checked that).

    Did Allen Klein really compile those? With John and George's help?

    If so, it was the best thing Klein ever did. Can't fault those comps at all.

    Well, here's some more info:

    'The tracklisting for both collections was compiled by Allen Klein, and were approved by the former members of The Beatles. No cover versions were included, and all the songs on the Red Album were by Lennon-McCartney.'

    'I didn't want lousy versions going out, I wanted them to be as was. And I asked Capitol/EMI, or EMI/Capitol whichever, please ask George Martin would he take care of this, so at least he knows what to do. I didn't want some strange guy, you know, making dubbed versions of it and putting it out, because of the versions that were going out [on other compilations] the reissues were pretty poor. I hadn't even listened to them, because I just presumed they'd take the tape as we made it and make a master and put it out again, but they didn't, they'd been screwing around with a few of the early ones. I didn't know that until it was too late. So on that last package where they had Beatles 60... different periods – that one. I made sure. The Red and The Blue, that one. I made sure George Martin was there and I made sure they put that picture which I got Linda [sic] to take of the same pose as their very first album over the Abbey Road... No what is it that... EMI office in some other place, some square? Manchester Square. So I was involved in that respect, in that package making sure that the cover was what I wanted and that the sound was done by George Martin. So I don't mind that one. Checked the remix after he'd done it, it was as good as you could get out of whatever mono recording we did then.'
    -- John Lennon, 1980 - The Lennon Tapes, Andy Peebles

    'International variations
    Different pressings in the United States and United Kingdom led to variations in the mixes and performances used. The Capitol Records version tended to use mixes and performances originally heard on The Beatles' US albums, such as the version of 'Help!' featuring a James Bond-style introduction.

    In the UK, all songs on the Red Album were in stereo, with the exception of Love Me Do. In the US five songs were in mono: Love Me Do, I Want To Hold Your Hand, A Hard Day's Night, I Feel Fine and Ticket To Ride.'

    1962-1966 (Red Album)
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  22. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Yes, I've thought about this too. Even though the Red & Blue albums were compiled by Americans (Klein & Steckler), they followed the UK chronology throughout.
     
  23. notesfrom

    notesfrom Forum Resident

    Location:
    NC USA
    That speaks to George Martin's involvement.
     
  24. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Maybe, but as far as I know it was an Apple product with Al Steckler doing the compilation of tracks.

    He had also done the Hey Jude LP and the Stones' two Hot Rocks compilations.
     
  25. merterhenz

    merterhenz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Berlin
    But did they? On both the UK and the US version "In My Life" is followed by "Girl". Songs from the other albums also don't follow the albums' running order, with the exception of Revolver. But then, there are only two songs from Revolver anyway.
     
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