The Beatles UK singles: A sides v B Sides

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by AFOS, Jul 31, 2013.

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  1. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    Well, I'm just listing all the songs we know they performed at EMI in 1962 (GM's memory notwithstanding):

    Love Me Do
    PS I Love You
    Please Please Me
    Ask Me Why
    Besame Mucho
    How Do You Do It
    Your Feets Too Big (played sometime to GM, according to him, probably at their first session I would say).
    Tip Of My Tongue (thanks Ron!)

    Not sure, but wasn't it Ron Richards who booked Andy White?
     
  2. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    The facsimiles in Recording Session and Chronicles doesn't indicate they were back-dated. The contract on pp. 18 of Recording Session has a clear 4 June 1962 date. It specifies that The Beatles contract with Parlophone covers 3 consecutive periods of one year each. It's telling that Epstein sent the Beatles a telegram (in Hamburg) that he secured a contract with EMI/Parlophone on 9 May 1962. And further, that a recording session was set for 6 June (the Beatles remained in Hamburg until 31 May by contract). There are other contracts and letters shown too. One dated 25 may 1962 indicates that the Beatles will be paid customary MU fees and it mentions their contract is enclosed. If the 6 June session was an audition they would not be paid, nor would a contract be enclosed. It's possible that the Beatles didn't actually affix their names to the contract before the session because they were not in London (or England until 1 June).
     
  3. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    I think that all of the 1962 sessions, that is, in June, in September, and in November, got all mixed up with one another in all of their memories. It wasn't like they realized that people were going to be analyzing these things 50 years later, and there was no way at the time that any of the participants even cared about the details of these things. So anytime that Paul or George Martin is recalling these events of 1962, they certainly can't be 100% accurate. As mentioned before, Martin delegated much of the sessions to Ron Richards. Likewise, Paul can't have been "nervous" because he was suddenly thrust into the lead vocal on Love Me Do so that John could play the harmonica (Paul could have been nervous for other reasons, but not that one). Ringo still doesn't realize that his drumming was on the original 45 of Love Me Do; he still thinks the Andy White version was the first release. And on and on it goes. Only 3-4 months before Lewisohn's book clears up all of this stuff. Arnie
     
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  4. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for looking into this. I will check these things out too when I get back home, where my books are.

    But does that mean that Martin signed the Beatles to a contract without actually seeing/hearing them in person? Or did the Beatles meet Martin previous to this May 9th date?? Arnie
     
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  5. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Boston, MA
    Indeed. Which makes even less sense, unless George Martin specifically told him that a session drummer would be required and it was up to Richards to book one. Then again, how on earth was the first version with Ringo released as their debut single? It goes against everything Martin was suppose to stand for. Why would he release a sub par take as their all-important debut single? And why would THAT master be destroyed months later and be replaced with the Andy White version? Did Epstein make the demand? Was it an oversight or mistake by someone at EMI? If George Martin and Ron Richards went to the expense of booking and paying for Andy White, why was THAT version kept in the vaults until 1963? I sure hope Lewisohn explains and is corroborated with EMI paperwork. Ron
     
  6. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    IIRC, it was only a theory of Mark's, to try and explain the situation. It's in the book '10 Years That Shook The World' (which collated and expanded on 3 earlier MOJO special magazines). He recalls that at the time of Chronicle, he took all the documentation to George Martin and laid them out in front of him, asking him to explain. GM was stumped. Mark suggested that the contract was possibly backdated to a couple of days before the session but (IIRC) the first session was proved to definitely have taken place under contract. I don't have the book with me at the moment to check.
     
  7. Vagabond

    Vagabond Senior Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    Yeah I think it's the released single Andy White claims he drummed on. I saw it on this vid in the rather surreal Pete Best thread the other day:



    The single has so much of the early Ringo trademark drumming I can't believe this to be true.

    (edit: comments on PPM around 6m30)
     
  8. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    Hey, Ron, that's the best version!!! :)

    I'll admit that it's less Beatle-y than what was to come, but that's only with hindsight.

    PS. Maybe they lost the tape when it came to compiling the first LP. After all, why did they also have to use a cobbled together 'Please Please Me' for the stereo LP?
     
  9. ralph7109

    ralph7109 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Franklin, TN
    So far for me, the As have it.

    Love Me Do is a much better song than one thinks.

    And as someone else intimated - the real depart will come with their last single of 1965....
     
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Senior Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    Tip Of My Tongue is hands down the worst early Lennon/McCartney song I've heard (followed closely by One And One Is Two). I'd love to know what George Martin made of it at the time.
     
  11. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    THAT we don't know... yet. Some say Martin saw them perform at the Cavern, but that would have been sometime during the first week of April at the latest (they left for Hamburg sometime before 13 April). It's possible that Martin signed them on the basis of the demo tapes alone (or acetates) Brian sent (or played to him). This doesn't seem likely, but it's a possibility. Also, Epstein may have had other performances on tape/acetate (including Your Feet's Too Big and others) that weren't from the Decca audition. Supposedly, Brian met with George Martin back in early February and GM commented favorably on Harrison's guitar playing and on the original Hello Little Girl. It's been said GM was very taken by the witty and charming Brian Epstein... can't imagine THAT would be the reason to secure a contract though. Again, let's hope Lewisohn finds the documents that explain THE reason(s) why EMI/Parlophone signed them. Ron
     
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  12. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    In the article I referenced earlier, GM says 'Well, I must have seen them before June 6th then' (not believing that the June 6th could be a proper session with no audition before then). Lewisohn then asks GM how many times he met Pete Best. GM replies: 'One'.
     
  13. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I like the handclaps during the solo, but everything about the 4 September version is sub par compared to the Andy White version. For one thing, Ringo's tambourine really adds to the arrangement and White's definitive cymbal smash (something neither Pete, nor Ringo had done) adds a sense of dynamics. Paul's lead vocal is better and John's harmonica work is better as well... IMO. Ron
     
  14. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Some possible insights from Norman Smith about first session on June 6, 1962:

    They [The Beatles] left, and George [Martin] turned to me and said, 'Well, what do you think?' And I said, 'I've seen a lot of groups come in for artists test, but this one - there is something special about them. I can't tell you what, but there is something there.' As I said, the test hadn't gone too well, and I wasn't impressed by their sound. But they had an appealing quality, a kind of charisma. And I told George, 'In my view, I think they should be signed.' And I'll never forget, his last words to me before he left were, 'Okay. I'll think about it.' Now, there was quite a bit of controversy that came about after that, as to whether they were actually signed before the artist test. A lot of it that came out did make sense as to why, in my view, George Martin turned up himself for an artist test, when no other producer ever did that. As I said, it was always their assistants.

    For the artist test, it was George Martin himself. And there was no question of them them being signed at that time. But, later I began to wonder, 'Were they already signed? Is this why George Martin himself turned up? Was it because this was the first time that he'd seen them? Was there something more attached to the whole thing?'

    [FROM: Recording The Beatles, Brian Kehew and Kevin Ryan]

    http://www.beatlesbible.com/1962/06/06/the-beatles-first-abbey-road-recording-session/

    Arnie
     
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  15. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    Well, we'll have to agree to disagree Ron! I find the Ringo version more bluesy, more of an original (if a bit uncommercial) sound, almost Stones-y before the Stones. By contrast, the Andy White version I find metronomic and stilted, even if it is more polished. Basically, it went from 'bluesy' to 'poppy'. Of course, after that they continued to be more poppy (and had great success with it), but the Ringo version sounds more 'Liverpool' to me. :)
     
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  16. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    A rather leading question from Mark. A more appropriate one would be had he (GM) seen Pete PERFORM before the 6 June session. If George had seen the Beatles perform back in April 1962 (at the latest) he may not have actually "met" them. He could have watched them for a period of time, then left unannounced. Of course it would be very hard to recall specific dates even a few years later... never mind 40, 50+ years on, but SOME sort of documentation must exist? Additional correspondence between Brian and George Martin? Some inter-office memo from George Martin to one of his bosses? Something?! Ron
     
  17. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    I strongly disagree, Ask Me Why is better than most A-Sides released in '63, IMO it is a great pop song.
     
  18. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    Well, I'm going from memory, but AFAIK George Martin was adamant that he only met/saw Pete Best once.
     
  19. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

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    Boston, MA
    Seems that Norman was incorrect when he recalled the session. They WERE signed. Contracts were sent to Brian no later than 25 May 1962. Now, it certainly possible that there was a stipulation that could void the contract if the session went poorly. I don't believe any of us have seen the full contract as sent to Brian on 25 May. And let's not forget that the Beatles were employees by 6 June. Recording Session shows their Session Fee and Expenses report. There is no caveat that 6 June was an audition or test session. They received their full 7 and 10 for the session, same as they got for 4 September. George Martin had no time "to think about the contract" because it was duly signed by the Beatles no later than 6 June... and probably a few days BEFORE the session. Again, the ONLY thing I can think of is that Parlophone had a legal out if the session went poorly (though nothing of the sort has been mentioned by the principles involved or by documentation to this point). Ron
     
  20. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

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    I'm sure he is/was adamant, but that doesn't make it so. Ron
     
  21. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    That's OK, I still respect you!!:D
     
  22. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England

    With GM's memory, that's true.
     
  23. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    So now, judging from all of the above info, it looks like June 6, 1962, was the first time that Martin and The Beatles met. Hard to believe, but it seems to me that Martin signed the Beatles to a contract without actually meeting or seeing the band in person. He liked Brian and he liked what he heard on the demos/acetates/tapes that Brian played to him. And as you say, Ron, it is possible that Parlophone might have had a legal out if the session went poorly. Arnie
     
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  24. brainwashed

    brainwashed Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
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    Well, Andy does say they did "a version" of Please Please Me. He is correct on that count... just not THE version of the song. And he was incorrect that the first song recorded at the session was Love Me Do. Documentation states it was PS I Love You. He was right in that it was a 3 hour session. Ron
     
  25. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
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