The detrimental effect of wi-fi on SQ

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Pastafarian, May 10, 2019.

  1. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I'm still 'anologue', pad off get up and manually use JRiver on the laptop (with it's wi-fi off).

    Added bonus no brain cancer and I'll stay fit?
     
  2. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    If you said this already, I apologize. Once a song has started with wifi on, you are saying that, mid song, you can unplug your router (turns wifi off), and the second half of the song will sound noticeably better?
     
  3. RH67

    RH67 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Simi Valley Ca.
    Weird, Wi Fi should have no effect on whats downloaded. Sounds to me like Wi Fi is affecting your system and not really the downloads.
     
  4. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I never listen this way, I'm at least a 'one full track' guy rather than switching back and forth over 30 years and it's what works for me when choosing equipment.

    I've got the DAC on a 30 days return basis and I imagined that it may have taken that long to fully assess if it meets my needs. As I said in my first post, yesterday I was thinking it'd been a bad choice for my system, as it didn't sound as good as my RIP CDP.
     
  5. Johnny Action

    Johnny Action Forum President

    Location:
    Tacoma, WA, USA
    The detrimental effect of the WiFi occurs at a physiologic level in your ear. WiFi inhibits full cochlear signal processing at the cilia nerve junctions. It’s subtle but it’s real. Avoid WiFi.
     
    Doug Walton likes this.
  6. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    Try switching it off in the middle of a song for troubleshooting purposes.
     
  7. Apesbrain

    Apesbrain Forum Resident

    Location:
    East Coast, USA
    That's interesting. Can you link the medical study on this?
     
  8. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    The Rega drive disables the Window 10 drives and I've confirmed this is actually happening, the only thing on my laptop is Windows 10 & JRiver
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  9. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I've considered this and perhaps I've lived with it before but with added transmitters it's passed some threshold, I'm currently working at turning off my wi-fi completely BUT I have to do this through hub management as the hub doesn't have a off button.

    When I've achieved this I may find there is a perceptible difference, if so I'll ask all neighbors to turn off theirs:rant:.
     
  10. Dillydipper

    Dillydipper Sultan Of Snark

    Location:
    Central PA
    I think the only downside with wi-fi isn't quality per se...it's the risk it won't be consistant. Wi-fi has more things that could effect its' stability and reliability, than ethernet (unless of course, your house is full of mice, and your ethernet cables are wrapped in cheese)(note to self: cancel that Bleu Cheese Cable order I made last night...).

    Too many extenuating circumstances distract wi-fi signals from speeding bits and bytes along their appointed rounds: conflicting networks, local signals from competing appliances and devices, lightning, electrical company transformers down the block, your suddenly-ravenous window air conditioners, the Ouija Board, space aliens (somebody tell Roy Neary to stop making those sculptures with his mashed potatoes...), your neighbor's party where everybody's looking up the lyrics to "Auld Lang Syne" on their smartphones all at once...

    Essentially, sending commands from a device to a receiver is 99% trouble- and glitch-free...but, when sending actual music files around the house from server to one Oppo or another, you're better off with hardwire.
     
  11. Helom

    Helom I'll take the monkey coffins

    Location:
    U.S.
    I'd be interested to know JS's reasoning for this phenomenon. Not saying it's not possible but like S&G, I've yet to experience it. Just for S&G ($#!+$ & Grins this time), I tried listening to my CD player while cycling my WiFi. The Router is in same room and both the CD player and Chromecast are connected to the same DAC. Couldn't hear any difference.

    I control my Chromecast streaming with my phone. It's worth mentioning that I have a couple apps on my phone that do affect the SQ whenever they're open, for whatever reason.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  12. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I have a 7" Amazon tablet that I have had for a few years that I use to cast YouTube videos.

    The ChromeCast device was connected to the wireless router by wifi. I have a Sony streaming box that was also connected to the router by wifi.
     
  13. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    As I said before my daughter threw in the possibility of RFI acting on all cables, I've not got her specialist knowledge to even begin to say if it could be this.
     
  14. Aura

    Aura Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Sorry, only selectively skimming the thread but a couple points:
    • Like another poster, I run a Logitech SB Touch and Logitech server on a Mac Pro in another room
    • I have streamed via WiFi and never noticed a difference in quality vs. wired via ethernet. Bit perfect rips are streamed bit perfect to the SB Touch and connected S/PDIF to a W4S DAC.
    • WiFi drops out on hi-res 24/192 or higher
    • Therefore, I switched to ethernet via a MoCa network
    If the OP decides to go ethernet, investigate MoCa because unlike ethernet, your home may already be wired for coax cable in every room. It's an excellent solution.
     
    D700 likes this.
  15. jtw

    jtw Forum Resident

    I'll say it for Pastafarian again: he isn't transmitting the actual music over wifi. The music exists on his hard drive, and gets sent to his dac via cable.
     
    Pastafarian likes this.
  16. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    You still may want to try Fidelizer. I have my computer connected via usb to a streamer which is connected to the amp. So my set up is computer>>>>wire world usb>>>>>ifi USB Power 3.0 >>>>wire world usb cable to Streamer DAC >>>>>wire world Silver Eclipse 7 RCA cable to amp. Fidelizer is loaded on the computer and configures the computer for audiophile play back......sounds excellent. You can download the free version or purchase the better version.
     
  17. Moebius

    Moebius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    If they're both connected to the home network / router they're going to be communicating via that as well, not just with each other. I'm assuming when you say you switched wifi off you just mean on the devices, not the router as well? In which case you could presume the signal from the router (in another room?) isn't causing any effect. And the device closest to your system that could potentially cause rfi issues would be the laptop? Have you tried moving the laptop further away (eg longer usb cable to the dac)?
     
  18. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    My OP was a result of turning off wi-fi on the laptop and pad, although I've now worked out how I can turn the wi-fi off at my hub/router.

    Today a old friend is coming round to listen to my new 'toy', she used to come to dems in the days when I was on the upgrade roundabout.

    She's got a innate ability to recognise when somethings right or off when listening to music, so it'll be interesting to hear her thought concerning, is the Rega DAC as good as my deceased Meridian and her thoughts on wi-fi.

    I realise the issue of time between hearing my Merdian and the DAC may be seen as a problem but what we're talking about here is 'right', I presume I'm talking the same language as some others.

    I can't reasonably ask my daughter for more info as she just doing her dissertation but I Googled RFI and found a article, which also mentions cables https://www.controleng.com/articles/understanding-rfi-and-emis-effects/.

    I also found this on Wiki:

    In the mid 1980s, the European Union member states adopted a number of "new approach" directives with the intention of standardizing technical requirements for products so that they do not become a barrier to trade within the EC. One of these was the EMC Directive (89/336/EC)[3] and it applies to all equipment placed on the market or taken into service. Its scope covers all apparatus "liable to cause electromagnetic disturbance or the performance of which is liable to be affected by such disturbance".

    I'm thinking this may be the issue I mentioned earlier "is my old equipment not shielded", as it was built before the EU directive, perhaps this is why I've experienced this issue.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  19. Sterling1

    Sterling1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    My brain is too small and my attention span too short to contemplate this thread beyond wondering about subtleties in general which affect sound quality. For example, sometimes the music from my system just sounds spectacular, then on other days not so spectacular and I wonder why; yet, I realize I don't have enough understanding of science to even speculate about why I perceive the sound on some days sounds different than on other days much less glean an answer.
     
    RH67 likes this.
  20. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I did worry last night if I was opening up a whole new 'can of worms' and a nightmare future of "It does", "It doesn't" and snake oil remedies.
     
  21. jkauff

    jkauff Putin-funded Forum Troll

    Location:
    Akron, OH
    Here's a long shot, since your DAC is described as being interference-resistant, but have you tried moving the DAC as far away as possible from your laptop and router? I once had problems with a wireless Bluetooth mouse--turned out I had my iPhone too close to the mouse, and it was picking up radio interference. I solved the problem by moving the phone to the other side of my desk. Like I said, a long shot, but easy enough to try.

    That goes for your USB cables, too. Unless the wire is well-shielded, they can pick up interference from WiFi signals.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  22. Manimal

    Manimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern US
    I think Darko addresses this smartly on his YouTube channel.
     
    Moebius likes this.
  23. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    Either Eithernet or WiFi is going to work just as well. In either case, there is the same digital signal that is presented to the DAC.
     
    Sterling1 and Manimal like this.
  24. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident Thread Starter

    You've not understood the issue I'm raising ethernet has not been a factor in my hi-fi and wi-fi is only in the equation for my ability to remotely control JRiver on the laptop.

    I only mention ethernet as a factors IF i wanted to have a reduced amount of wi-fi swirling around my home.

    So the real question is does wi-fi have a detrimental impact on the electronics in your system, accepting the 1 & 0s haven't turned into 3s & 4s.

    Darko's video is only relevant to the extent that it alludes to wi-fi emissions being possibly detrimental in some way(?) but what he's actually talking about wi-fi v ethenet is of no interest, it's usb connection to the DAC full stop.

    I can see that my lack of knowledge about all the possible ways of connecting up a computer fronted system has caused problems and had me doing Google search for the methods others have referred to, hopefully we're back on track.

    I had a good laugh with my friend when she came round about my ' this century' problem of having to stand up to change a records or listen to another track, she did point "It's back to vinyl".

    With respect to wi-fi on or off , she did perceive a difference but her ears weren't as offended as mine.

    Anyway at the moment I've parked that one, as I'm prepared to move, so now I need to decide if I can live with a computer fronted system. I say that, as from what I've heard a old fashioned transport seems to better a computer, however the extra £1.100 in respect of the Saturn was beyond my means and I wasn't a great fan of the Creek player I heard.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  25. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I've personally never cared for having my laptop connected to my audio system for streaming. I have an external USB DAC and I can stream from my laptop but it just always seemed kludgy and not an elegant way to stream. I don't see any point in doing it myself.

    I think that the factor comes up in how much music is in your collection, would be the major determining factor in how you stream.

    I use my laptop to rip my CD's to digital files. Once I do that, I can play them anywhere.

    I have an Oppo player that I use for movies and as a transport for CD's.

    I bought a little Sony streaming box on close out back in 2011 for $49.

    I use it for streaming Pandora and I can plug a USB drive into it to stream my digital files. It works good with music videos that I have downloaded from YouTube.

    If you have a large digital library, then some kind of music server would be in order. I just never found any need for one as my digital music collection of source CD's to rip is of moderate size.

    This has been the simplest approach for me, at the present time.
     
    Manimal and Sterling1 like this.

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