The Doors First LP--For Steve

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by nivek29, Mar 23, 2002.

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  1. nivek29

    nivek29 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    dallas
    Steve,

    Rumor has it that when you transferred the two-track masters for "The Doors" debut LP, you also found and listened to some of the 4 track session tapes.

    Did you hear any alternate, unreleased takes on the 4 tracks? Did these 4 tracks have a live guide (aka "scratch") vocal on one of the tracks?

    Any info you can provide would be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Way back when, I saw a vault worker eating his pizza lunch on a session reel of "Light My Fire". I called Elektra and finked. I've told that story so many times, that it feels like an urban legend, but I assure you it's true.

    Not long after that, the Doors' stuff was removed from the storage company and taken to the Doors' new vault in Hollywood, via Mr. Botnick and the late Paul R. No one can use "Light My Fire" as a plate anymore. That's a good thing.

    Trust me on this, listening to an underdub is pretty darn boring. The "fairy dust" is on Bruce Botnick's final creation. The earlier stuff sounds like demo tapes from "Doorsmania". What Bruce did when he was making his final four-track composite is nothing short of magical. You take that magic away, and the stuff just lays there.

    Listen to the old Quad version of "Light My Fire" for example, and you will hear what I mean.

    BTW, no guide vocals on the first album, just the real deal.
     
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  3. nivek29

    nivek29 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    dallas
    Steve I need to clarify.

    An urban legend has popped up that original 4 track session tapes from the 1st Doors LP DO NOT have vocals-- that all vocals were overdubbed later after an "instrumental master" was bounced to a second 4 track. In other words, some people claim that Producer Paul Rothchild had the band lay their tracks down WITHOUT a vocal. Then the vocal was overdubbed when the master was bounced on another tape.

    Since you may have heard outtakes from the 4 track session reel, I was hoping you could shed light on this urban legend.

    I'm confused by your statement: "BTW, no guide vocals on the first album, just the real deal."

    What do you mean? What is the "real deal?" Do the unreleased, ALTERNATE TAKES have any vocals or not?

    OR are the surviving alternate takes simply instrumentals WITHOUT any vocals?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  4. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I'm a bit confused. Are you writing a book on The Doors? Or are you a fan, or perhaps not a fan? Your registration bio is mainly blanks, so it's hard to tell.

    I hesitate in answering the many questions I get about the Doors' recordings without first checking with Bruce Botnick and the Doors and getting their blessing.

    Can you fill me in a bit?

    Thanks!
     
  5. nivek29

    nivek29 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    dallas
    no i'm not writing a book.

    the reason I'm asking you is that someone named "Chris M" posted on the doors bulletin board claiming that you have stated, after listening to the 4 track session tapes, that no vocals exist on alternate takes.

    http://ib.thedoors.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard_v3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3c9cd3921be8ffff;act=ST;f=11;t=239

    click on the above link or paste it into your browser window to read what he said you said.

    i'm curious because i'd love to hear alternate takes from the first LP, but if no vocals were recorded "live" then I guess we won't be hearing any...
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Yeah, I remember that. Light My Fire rehearsal tape. Just the music was recorded, but the vocal was bleeding through onto the guitar track, so there was some kind of a guide vocal, it wasn't being recorded though. They were either setting music levels or just getting used to playing in the studio. Problem is, the later takes were gone, so I have no idea how they changed the channels around.

    To answer your question, there could be some first album alternate takes that exist, but Mr. Botnick went through everything with Danny S. and Ray M. and didn't hear anything they liked. So......

    Of course, by the second album, when they went to 8-track, the guide vocal was usually just wiped off. Bummer, but very common for the time...

    That help?
     
  7. nivek29

    nivek29 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    dallas
    so, you're saying it is possible that alternate takes from the first LP, including Light My Fire, MAY exist--and MAY have been recorded with a live vocal track?
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Maybe. Just a guess. I really don't know, having never heard any reels except that one early tape.

    I didn't look for any of these reels during my Doors' mastering quests for DCC. I was mainly concerned about finding the correct master mixes. Remember, it's FREEZING in the vault. Even with a big fake fur coat on and gloves, one can only spend about 15 minutes in there. Brrrrrr.
     
  9. Angel

    Angel New Member

    Location:
    Hollywood, Ca.
    I hear you there. Some vaults are total overkill on the temp. if you ask me.
     
  10. nivek29

    nivek29 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    dallas
    what's the average temperature in a tape vault?
     
  11. Angel

    Angel New Member

    Location:
    Hollywood, Ca.
    Well, a typical modern vault would have:

    ANSI standards (cold & dry).


    0° F cryogenic archival freezers.

    Brrrrrr.
     
  12. joelee

    joelee Hyperactive!

    Location:
    Houston
    Steve,
    When you listened to the master of the first LP was the unedited Break on Through vocal on it?
    If so, were you thinking on releasing it.

    Thanks,
    Joe
     
  13. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    The master or the four-track?

    The MASTER is a mix that was made from the four-track. That does NOT have the extra words on it.

    The uncensored version on the box set has the extra words dropped in from the four-track vocal channel via a digital work station. Bruce Botnick doesn't even want to remix that album. The feel of the original mix cannot be duplicated!
     
  14. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Ahhh-hah! The REAL reason that some tapes have to be baked!

    (sorry...... :D ...... at least I did not make a crack about some of the 'bad' engineers being half baked.......... ;) although it IS tempting!)
     
  15. Bob Lovely

    Bob Lovely Super Gort In Memoriam

    This does explain why there are so many cold endings on older material!

    ;)
     
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