The Doors Live At The Fillmore November 16, 1967

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Buda, Nov 17, 2018.

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  1. smoke

    smoke Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Doing new overdubs would be the way to go. If they had a similar 4 track tape with only drums from the next night it might make sense, but grafting the original album's drums onto a live recording? How is that in any way "truer" or preferable??? I mean, it would have to be done right, with period equipment, to avoid the sad fate of those bass overdubs on We're Only In It For The Money - which sound nuts to everyone's ears. It could easily be done, though, in way which matched the sonics of the rest of the band. And again - those Zappa overdubs were a choice - there isn't really an alternative here. The article doesn't say, but I presume the 4th track was damaged somehow? If this was found somewhat recently I wonder what else is out there...
     
  2. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    The album tracks would be truer since they would be a performance of the same vintage by the original members. Ray isn't here anymore, so modern overdubs by him are not possible. John's drums on IOW were some odd computer sampling process so I don't even know that he's up for dubbing the show. Even if they had to use shows from other years to fill in, I'd much rather they use vintage performances than new.
     
  3. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Felt Forum dubs were embraced. Fans were also given a download option without the dubs.

    Some of the AL shows were given new mixes compared to the Bright Midnight CDs.

    Why not offer more than one audio/mix option on a concert DVD/blu that's only an hour? Devo did that on their 1980 DVD that included modern overdubs - the original mix was also included. The Michael Jackson Xscape audio released offered all original recordings on an optional bonus disc.
     
  4. Kat Records

    Kat Records Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lima - Perú
    No motorcycle overdubs here, please
     
  5. anth67

    anth67 Purveyor of Hogwash

    Location:
    PNW USA
    Wow, had no idea this song dated to '67.

    Still no live version of Take It As It Comes, eh....?
     
  6. Pepegafez

    Pepegafez Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asturias
    I think Who scared you is only a snippet in the Back door man medley
     
  7. Pats Radio

    Pats Radio A Doors Enthusiast

    Location:
    Boston, Ma

    Hmmmmm that’s funny because Murray Lerner said in a press release it will show “the film will represent the doors’ performance in its entirety.”

    Guess you missed that.

    :righton:
     
  8. Pats Radio

    Pats Radio A Doors Enthusiast

    Location:
    Boston, Ma

    More speculation. Clearly, there are parts they weren’t happy with (for whatever reason) so the need to dub were necessary.

    I guess the story continued.

    :wave:
     
  9. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I saw it when you posted it the last time I saw you making excuses for being wrong. You didn't initially say all you had to go on was what Murray Lerner said when you were making your claims. You came here, in your usual tone, and were talking down to people who were asking if the release would be missing large chunks of footage. You said they were ridiculous for even asking and that there wouldn't be large chunks of missing footage. You were trying to give the impression you had insider info again, when in reality, all you did was read an interview and repeat something said in it (which turned out to be inaccurate).
     
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  10. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Were necessary and not happy with are two different things. The bootleg audio proves dubs weren't necessary. The dubs made no sense. The drums are atrocious. Just another case of old guys over thinking things and ruining what they did when they were young.
     
  11. Pats Radio

    Pats Radio A Doors Enthusiast

    Location:
    Boston, Ma
    No, were necessary and not happy are pretty much the same. Try again.
     
  12. Pats Radio

    Pats Radio A Doors Enthusiast

    Location:
    Boston, Ma
    Well if the guy who recorded it says he has it all what am I suppose to do? Say he’s wrong? Brilliant.
     
  13. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    You're supposed to not be rude and talk down to people when you don't have your facts straight. You did the same thing with the 2nd Fog reel. It would be bad enough if you spoke to people like this and were right. It's just sad that you come here and act like this and the info turns out to be wrong and then you make lame excuses, while still acting the way you do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  14. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    No, you see necessary means there was literally no other option. That wasn't the case. Replacing the guitar and drums was dumb and even worse, when the drums aren't even a real performance but some computer guided nonsense which sounds bizarre. You can keep trying but there is zero defense for that.
     
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  15. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Tell me where sync footage Jim singing from the IOW show of Ship of Fools/Light My Fire/Roadhouse exists. 3 of the 7 songs performed that night.

    Hint: It's not on the blu-ray since those songs are quick edit patchworks. I'm not sure footage of SOF/RH live exists from any Jim era Doors show. LMF was blurry footage of John's drum kit shot to fill gaps when edited later.
     
  16. prof. stoned

    prof. stoned Forum Member

    Location:
    ...
    It doesn't work. No interaction between drums and the live tape. The rhythm is off. Dubbing a new Densmore part in would be the least worst idea, if they want to rescue this tape.
     
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  17. anth67

    anth67 Purveyor of Hogwash

    Location:
    PNW USA
    I'd welcome the recording as is, but they likely wouldn't release it in that state. Then again, Boot Yet Butt.....
     
  18. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I take it that the Freedom man site got the isolated Fillmore samples from band management. Drums from Perception 5.1 and Hollywood Bowl crowd audio can be grabbed from commercial releases with some at-home trickery.
     
  19. signothetimes53

    signothetimes53 Senior Member

    I would buy an entire release of this, as is.

    There's a 'freshness' to the performance that fairly jumps out of the speakers. I'll admit I'm a sucker for early Doors: I had the Kiss The Stone Matrix 4CD set AND the Danbury High School boot 20+ years ago, and yes, I bought the London Fog box, useless ephemera and all....but I was enthralled by how mature they already sounded by the summer of '66.

    Don't mess with overdubs, get it out there, warts and all.
     
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  20. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Love Me Two Times was on the Guitar Hero game so isolated drum and bass tracks could've been taken from there.
     
  21. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    It's definitely off, but I think it could be done better and might work. Who would play the bass? I'm also wondering if Densmore could even pull it off with the weirdness of the IOW overdubs.
     
  22. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Where's the Fillmore stuff originating if this isn't band management sanctioned?
     
  23. Pepegafez

    Pepegafez Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asturias
    I think that the tape was not released because they know that other Bill graham tapes exist that could help to reconstruct the audio,
    so using the studio tracks, overdubs or whatever is a bad decision (another fiasco like The Matrix first generation/master tapes for example), it´s hard to believe that no other concert had been recorded

    1967
    January 06-08 San Francisco, CA, US Fillmore Auditorium
    January 13-15 San Francisco, CA, US Fillmore Auditorium
    June 09-10 San Francisco, CA, US Fillmore Auditorium
    July 28-30 San Francisco, CA, US Fillmore Auditorium
    Nov. 16 San Francisco, CA, US Fillmore Auditorium
    Nov. 17-18 San Francisco, CA, US Winterland
    Dec. 26-27-28 San Francisco, CA, US Winterland
    1968
    March 22-23 New York, NY, US Fillmore East
    1970
    February 05-06 San Francisco, CA, US Winterland Arena
     
  24. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    Don't know. Maybe someone other than the band has the tape and is trying to drum up interest to get the band to buy it, so they wanted fans to hear what it sounds like with drums and bass. I personally didn't think the sample worked. It was not properly in sync, but I think a better job could be done by Bruce.
     
  25. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    It's proof on concept and a bit of a gauge of fan response. Drum beats and elements from the 67 live tape can be moved around a bit if done very tastefully.

    I think they should longer song clips of a couple songs(75 - 90 seconds) with isolated audio tracks, studio drum tracks and maybe some audience noise. See how the internet responds after 10 weeks. Doors cover bands that know 67 stuff inside out, know about 67 gear may come back with something that fits like a glove and doesn't need crowd noise as a smoke screen.
     
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