The Frank Zappa "You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore" volume by volume thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Galeans, Sep 11, 2020.

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  1. CrankSomeFrank

    CrankSomeFrank The eons are closing.

    Location:
    Lost In Iowa
    I'm another of the handful. I love the live versions of this and Mammy Nuns and wish Frank had done more with both, and Clowns on Velvet and Amnerika too.

    Disclaimer: I HATED Thing-Fish and the YCDTOSAs when they first were published. I started with Drowning Witch as my first new Zappa in the summer of '82 (thanks to friend Phil Hahn who coined the phrase Crank Some Frank!), and my first two LP purchases were OSFA and SUNPYG, then I want backwards and forwards from there. I loved YAWYI so much. That record saved my mental state in my late teens.

    So the last thing I wanted was a bunch of repeat versions of tunes I already knew, with different bands and singers and arrangements. Yes, I'm making fun of myself here. Dvmb@ss.

    I came around to both T-F and YCDTOSA eventually. Probably #1 is my favorite just for hearing it first and the huge variety and many hidden gems. Frank set a high bar with this one that he didn't match later, but so what. All Frank is good. Crank it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
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  2. Galeans

    Galeans Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    As a Zappa fan, it took me a while to appreciate the 1988 band. Nowadays I think they were fantastic and the horns really added a special flavour to the music. They managed to better some songs that I don't like much (eg. "Stick Together") but they were also a great addition to the material I already liked plenty, like this tune.

     
  3. PIGGIES

    PIGGIES Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    One of the whole Stage Series Highlights.
     
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  4. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    Alright....
    'tin-foil0hat' time here, and I'm just 'spit-balling':
    Was there some sort of falling-out between Frank & Ryko by 1990?
    I remember hearing tons of complaints about the mastering quality of the CD re-issues they put out in '90, AND, there were a couple of re-issues coming out on the Barking Pumpkin label...
    Anyone here know why, and what made the change, or was it that he was just too sick to care...maybe?...
     
  5. TwentySmallCigars

    TwentySmallCigars Forum Resident

    There was no falling out between Frank & Ryko, it's just that their current deal expired. The titles that had yet to come out on Ryko were released on Barking Pumpkin.

    Before his death he struck another deal with Ryko to have his entire catalogue re-released in 1995.
     
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  6. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    Thought I had already bought the EMI versions of "Shiek.." & "YAWYI", I remember hearing that people thought the Ryko versions were just awful.
     
  7. PIGGIES

    PIGGIES Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    They were, but that was down to Frank, not Ryko.
     
  8. edenofflowers

    edenofflowers A New Stereophonic Sound Spectacular!

    Location:
    UK
    There were a few EMI CDs released early on before RYKO/Music For Nations got involved. Some prefer these versions and some don't.
     
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  9. TwentySmallCigars

    TwentySmallCigars Forum Resident

    EMI believed that, because they had the rights to release his 1979-84 catalogue on LP, that they also had the rights to the CD's. They used the LP masters which differed from the Ryko masters, which were redone by Zappa.

    A lot of people preferred the EMI masters (which is a topic for another thread) but once the new deal for the 1995 Rykos was finalized, all other versions went out of print.
     
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  10. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'm sure if I listened again today, I'd probably find a lot more to love, but back when these came out, it was Volume 4 that kind of lost me, and 5 and 6 didn't really bring me back. I thought Volume 1 had a lot of great stuff on it, and Volume 2 immediately became one of my all time favorite records. Volume 3 was a step down naturally, but I liked it because I grew up with the 80's material mainly so I enjoyed hearing so much of the '81- '84 bands. Volume 4 I really should hear again; at the time it felt like he was scraping the bottom of the barrel in places, though with his archives, we all know well he had plenty of great stuff on deck. I think the lack of song notes in the liner notes (IIRC, and beyond the technical details) also hindered my enjoyment. At the time it just felt like a wide range of random stuff with no real connecting tissue or flow. A number of tracks on Volume 4 are taken from the same handul of specific shows, I would love to get those entire shows instead of compilations of wildly varying content.
     
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  11. E()

    E() Cat Herder

    Location:
    Avondale, PA
    Volumes 3 and 4 were sort of a letdown after a strong start with Volumes 1 and 2. They both had some good stuff but the heavy emphasis on the '84 band and some of the cut-and-paste decisions were weak points, IMHO.
     
  12. Galeans

    Galeans Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    Today's pick (with video!) which will lead us nicely to tomorrow's episode in our series of adventures on stage with mr. Zappa



    Love some of the comments on that Youtube video:

     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  13. E()

    E() Cat Herder

    Location:
    Avondale, PA
    My first exposure to the 88 band was three shows in one week (2 in DC and 1 in Philly). No idea what to expect going in and absolutely blown away. I still vividly remember the horn break in Stairway To Heaven and I Am The Walrus during the encores.

    Hard to imagine it taking any time to appreciate this band but glad you finally "saw the light" :)
     
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  14. Galeans

    Galeans Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    Unfortunately I never had a chance to see Frank live. He stopped touring before I was born and he died when I was 3. He has always been a big part of my life; my uncle played me a lot of great music growing up, including Frank, who always remained my absolute favorite, but although I have all the albums and tons of concert recordings, I missed the surprise effect: for that you needed to be there.

    My favorite Frank was generally from 1973 up to 1982. 88 at first sounded to me like a more organic version of the 84 spirit, with a good drum tone and the horns. One day it suddenly clicked and it became one of my favorite bands, especially because of the horns. I think they did "Cruising for Burgers" better than any other band and they always had great setlists.

    I still have my favorites but there's no Zappa period to dismiss or one I would call inferior. I even like the 1984 band a lot nowadays, although I wish Frank had let Chad use a real drum set.
     
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  15. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    On the Zappacast today Joe mentioned that he's started work on Halloween 1978 but that he'll have to reassemble the shows, as with the Zappa In New York set, because FZ edited the masters and the tapes are scattered all over.
     
  16. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    Would that be the one with L. Shankar sitting in on "Thirteen"? One of the most sublime FZ moments ever. Amazing, epic-length show.
     
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  17. edenofflowers

    edenofflowers A New Stereophonic Sound Spectacular!

    Location:
    UK
    OHHHHHHH YESSSSSSSSSSS! Glad he's suffering for our pleasure, cheers Vaultmeister, it'll be worth it!
     
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  18. edenofflowers

    edenofflowers A New Stereophonic Sound Spectacular!

    Location:
    UK
    Yes indeed and I agree, it's a stunner.
     
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  19. Galeans

    Galeans Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    Vol. 5 is another bit of an oddity in the series because each CD is a mini-volume, both concentrating exclusively on one specific era, totally different and unrelated from each other. It was released almost exactly one year after the previous volume and dropped in the stores the same day as the next one.


    [​IMG]

    You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, Vol. 5
    Release date: 10 July 1992

    CD 1:

    1. The Downtown Talent Scout [04:01]
    2. Charles Ives [04:38]
    3. Here Lies Love [02:45]
    4. Piano/Drum Duet [01:57]
    5. Mozart Ballet [04:05]
    6. Chocolate Halvah [03:25]
    7. JCB & Kansas On The Bus #1 [01:04]
    8. Run Home Slow: Main Title Theme [01:17]
    9. The Little March [01:21]
    10. Right There [05:07]
    11. Where Is Johnny Velvet? [00:52]
    12. Return Of The Hunch-Back Duke [01:44]
    13. Trouble Every Day [04:07]
    14. Proto-Minimalism [01:40]
    15. JCB & Kansas On The Bus #2 [01:11]
    16. My Head? [01:22]
    17. Meow [01:24]
    18. Baked-Bean Boogie [03:27]
    19. Where's Our Equipment? [02:29]
    20. FZ/JCB Drum Duet [04:27]
    21. No Waiting For The Peanuts To Dissolve [04:45]
    22. A Game Of Cards [00:46]
    23. Underground Freak-Out Music [03:52]
    24. German Lunch [06:43]
    25. My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama [02:12]

    CD 2:

    1. Easy Meat [07:39]
    2. Dead Girls Of London [02:29]
    3. Shall We Take Ourselves Seriously? [01:45]
    4. What's New In Baltimore? [05:04]
    5. Moggio [02:29]
    6. Dancin' Fool [03:13]
    7. RDNZL [07:59]
    8. Advance Romance [07:01]
    9. City Of Tiny Lites [10:38]
    10. A Pound For A Brown (On The Bus) [08:39]
    11. Doreen [01:59]
    12. The Black Page #2 [09:57]
    13. Geneva Farewell [01:38]

    The first disc is all dedicated to the classic Mothers of Invention era, from 1966 to 1969. I'm not among the fans who think that was necessarely FZ's best era but I think it's certainly the most fascinating period of his career. These guys had an unique sound and Frank's compositions had a special charm that got a bit lost as time went on. The band also had a lot of charachter and it's easy to understand why they are so well loved and well respected. This CD feels like an audio documentary: other than on stage, Frank also takes us on the bus, backstage, during photo sessions and in the studio. We start at the Fillmore in 1966, with the Freak Out Mothers opening for Lenny Bruce playing the previously unheard "The Downtown Talent Scout", a bluesy song with shades of "Trouble Every Day". Next up is the interesting "Charles Ives" (1969) which many will recognize as the backing track of "The Blimp" on "Trout Mask Replica" and as the extra section of "Didja Get Any Onja" on the pre-2012 CD versions of "Weasels Ripped My Flesh". The great cover of "Here Lies Love" (1969) originally by Mr. Undertaker shows the ability of the band in jumping from dissonant to beautiful. Lowell George's vocal performance is excellent and I love these keyboard swirls during the final chorus. "Piano Drum/Duet" (1969) is an interesting exercise for piano by Ian Underwood and drums by Arthur Tripp that Frank used on the "Progress" suite and on "200 Motels", after which we are transported to the Royal Albert Hall (hey, Vaultmeister: this is a show that would make a good stand-alone release!) where the well disciplined Ian Underwood plays fragments from Mozart's piano sonata in B flat while The Mothers and The Experience's Noel Redding pretend to do act like ballerinas and road manager Dick Barber strangles a rubber chicken filled with foam. Judging from the reaction of the audience it was probably hilarious but, since we don't have the visuals, it feels like a bit of a waste here. "Chocolate Halvah" (1969) is an Arabian sounding improvisation with chants by Lowell George and Roy Estrada: interesting at first but fatiguing near the end. After a brief fragment of the band on the bus, we are treated to three tracks yet again from 1969 that include themes Frank wrote in 1959 for the Run Home Slow movie, all beautifully performed. The last of these, "Right There", alternates the theme with a sex tape recorded by Bunk Gardner along which Roy Estrada vocalizes and has some fun. It would be pretty funny if we didn't know Estrada's backstory. The two selections from The Bronx 1969 (another show that could make an interesting release) that follow would be excellent if it wasn't for the fact that both are just fragments of the complete performances. The next few tracks are made up by fragments of audio veritee (bus, photo session, backstage) and improvisations, all of which are very worth hearing: there are hand conducted spontaneous performances, some quiet ("Meow", 1968), other noisy ("Where is Our Equipment?", 1967), drum solos ("Proto Minimalism", "FZ/JCB Drum Duet", 1969) and, most importantly, some kickass rocking jams ("Baked Bean Boogie", "No Waiting for The Peanuts to Dissolve", "Underground Freak Out Music", 1969). The disc is closed by the hilarious play "German Lunch" during which Lowell George plays a German costum office that inspects the Mothers' suitcases and by an edited mono mix of the single version of "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama", whose presence here is unexplainable: why not one of the excellent live performances of this tune from the era instead?

    Disc #2 is all dedicated to the 1982 band, completely different than the original Mothers. I believe that was one of the best ensembles Frank ever had but, unfortunately, that European tour sported a series of incidents, including two riots. We have already talked about Palermo but something unfortunate also happened in Geneve, Switzerland, the show from which Frank culled up the majority of this disc. More on this later. "Easy Meat" and "Dead Girls of London" (do they turn into werewolves?) are both excellent performances and "Shall We Take Ourselves Seriously?" is a previously unreleased song, short and pleasant. "What's New in Baltimore?" is emotional as usual and the band totally kills the intricate textures of "Moggio" and "RDNZL", while "Dancin' Fool" serves as a sort of breather in between. "Advance Romance" and "City of Tiny Lights" are both very solid and include some great soloing and amazing vocals but, to me, the highlight is "A Pound for a Brown" where madness is perfecly combined with excellent musicianship: other than Frank's obligatory fantastic solo, we are also treated to some great scat singing and guitar playing by Ray White, a good outing by Ed Mann and some amazing drumming by Chad Wackerman who supports the various solos with some solid and incredibly creative playing. Oh, and Scott Thunes is a fantastic bass player with a very personal tone and style which adds a lot of texture. "Doreen" is, as usual, one of Frank's best rock songs with a vibrant performance by Ray White (I have to say I miss "Goblin Girl" between this and the next selection, though) and this "Black Page" is much better than the one on Vol. 4, including what is perhaps the best solo of the CD during which you can also hear the guitar loop which would form the basis of "Ya Hozna". Sadly after this, the volume closes with the recording of FZ going off stage in Geneve ending the show after 40 minutes and causing a riot. What happened is that Frank, fed up with stuff getting thrown on stage, stopped the music after someone threw a cigarette at him to warn the audience only to get hit with a bottle. A bummer because, as the songs recorded during that night included here prove ("Easy Meat", "Dead Girls of London", "Shall We Take Ourselves Seriously", "What's New in Baltimore", "Moggio", "Dancin' Fool" and the head of "RDNZL") that was building up to be a hell of a performance. The ending on the circulating audience tape is even more abrupt because Frank stopped "RDNZL" in the middle of a very interesting Steve Vai solo to cut the show short. Even more frustratingly, Vai doing a solo on that song was an extremely rare event that, as far as I know, only happened in Geneve.

    The first disc is a fascinating reportage of the Mothers while the second is 70 minutes of all killer no filler stellar music. True, the solos on "Advance Romance" and "The Black Page #2" had already been released on "Guitar" but I'd rather hear them here: while all the solos included on "Guitar" are great, that album always felt to me like delicious sandwich filling without the rest of the meal. I prefer hearing them in their original context: plus, the solo on "The Black Page" is longer here. However, as far as 1982 is concerned, the excellent material captured here is just the tip of the iceberg: for one, there's not much here featuring Robert Martin's great singing. Hence, we need another release by this band! It's interesting that this and Vol. 2 (the two oddballs) are my favorite volumes from the serie. I guess I like it better when FZ does not jump around various eras, although it's what makes the Stage series so interesting.

    My overall rank on the serie: 1st out of 6.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  20. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    I think CD 2 of vol 5 is the best of the whole series.
     
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  21. Galeans

    Galeans Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy


    An example of how beautiful The Mothers could sound when they wanted to.
     
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  22. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    "RDNZL" from the Palermo show, including the guitar solo that FZ used on YCDTOSA 5.

     
  23. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    It's hard to tell....Frank was never one to 'give-the-people-what-they-want', but Disc One is an MOI-lovers wet dream!
    Do you think he had this Disc set up like this from the beginning?....
     
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  24. edenofflowers

    edenofflowers A New Stereophonic Sound Spectacular!

    Location:
    UK
    What with the 'Collected Improvisations of..." and the other original Mothers compilations Frank put together in the late 60s & early 70s but never released it wouldn't surprise me if big chunks of disc one were original unused sequences compiled back in the 60s/70s.
     
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  25. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Dude/man

    Location:
    CoCoCo, Ca
    Yeah count me in as one who thinks disc 2 of #5 is among the best of the series.

    I actually love the first 3 as well as this one. 4 and 6 for me could have each been one disc. the 1982 band was so great.
     
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