"The Good, The Bad And The Ugly" vs. "Once Upon A Time In The West"

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by yesstiles, Dec 22, 2017.

  1. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Some would say more sophisticated.

    Regardless I love both films so much it is down to splitting hairs. Both great films from a master and it would truly be foolish to put down either one. It is only through comparison that I woukd make my criticism.

    Pity Duck You Sucker is recognized even less because in all ways that OUATITW excels it too has a meaningful deeper story that some are just never going to get.
     
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  2. Django

    Django Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    TGTB&TU all the way.
     
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  3. DaveySR

    DaveySR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Also, from what I recall, OUATITW was devoid of humor.
     
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  4. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Jack Elam, fly. :D
     
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  5. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Can't agree with that at all. For example the final scene with Cheyenne has two moments.
     
  6. DaveySR

    DaveySR Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Yeah, maybe a little, but far much more tension.
     
  7. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Grabbing her butt was one and while there was tension...I laughed at the irony of his end.

    It was a more serious movie but had it sprinkled too.
     
  8. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds,England
    I like Frank's humorous line about the fat guys pants/belt and suspenders.
    'The man can't even trust his own pants'.
     
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  9. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Senior Member

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    Yes indeed. Thank you. It's a deeper movie than even Once Upon a Time in America. Something profoundly emotional inspired that wonderful Morricone score. again, don't want to go OT, but it is a major and underappreciated film. Second only to GBU in Leone's filmography
     
  10. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I think just like any great director we all will have our own top list. He made so many great films with so precious few output. Quite amazing.

    I concede that TGTBATU is going to always top lists and OUATIA is not going to appeal to most because of serious tone and taking time to age and not just jump out at you like most mainstream wonders.

    I go against the grain. Like with Valen...I choose Fair Warning over 1984 or Van Halen I everytime. I see the value, but the darker stories have more appeal to me.
     
  11. I think I would rank OUTITW over TGTBTU IF Clint Eastwood had been in the role played by Charles Bronson. He's not bad in the role but Clint's presence would have added a bit more to the film.
     
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  12. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I think it would have added too much. Part of the charm to me is that Charles Bronson's nationality features paired with his smaller height gave a more underestimated motivation for what he was and what he accomplished.

    The cocky sarcastic quality of Eastwood would have been a gross miscasting. OUATITW was something new and different and more epic. Eastwood would have robbed the show of the sum being greater than its parts.

    Eastwood was great, but he needed to go. I think the cameo woukd have even been too much for this special movie. Everyone was perfect. IMHO
     
  13. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Well Eastwood passed on the film as his only contribution would have been part of the henchmen at the opening scene. Leone always wanted Charles Bronson in the Dollar films but couldn't get him.Could not see Eastwood as the Mexican kid holding up his brother.:D
     
  14. Frangelico

    Frangelico Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Went with Once - better piece of cinema

    Good is “funner”

    Some of the takes on this thread are a hot mess lol

    Bashing on OUATITW is kind of like bashing on 81/2 or Rashomon or Vertigo. Don’t like it fine but pretty silly to attack it
     
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  15. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    This is all subjective I personally like Once Upon A Time In The West. Visually it's very strong. Just think it's a tad overrated. I prefer the three films in your post to SL 1968 film.
     
  16. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Sergio Leone best three films?

    The Good the Bad and the Ugly
    For a Few Dollars More
    Once Upon A Time In America.
     
  17. True but I think that Eastwood could have played the role that Bronson did and brought some vulnerability to the part expanding on a character that already had considerable power. As to Bronson, as good as he could be in the roles, I think he was miscast here myself. The fact that Eastwood would normally NOT be seen in the role of the kid holding up his brother (yes, he didn't look foreign enough to play a Mexican kid but they could have done a writing work around) is precisely WHY it would have been more interesting and, i think worked. I would have moved Eastwood into the main role although it would have been interesting to see the look on people's faces if Eastwood's character died in the beginning. It would have been another Janet Leigh moment.
     
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  18. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    I think people underestimate just how much Bronson brought to the role with very little speaking at all. If Eastwood hadn't have done the other 3 movies..maybe. But afterwards? Get the heck out. I don't see it at all.

    With me, if any movie is incredibly overrated it is TGTBATU.

    FAFDM has a lot more heart, and doesn't have that 3rd movie blues that just wreaks of what most sequels stretched out like that often feel like. That, and it has a more compelling story.

    The part that I like about Bronson in OUATIA, and I mean truly keep thinking about, is when he looks out at the workers and at the total view and says those great words.

    All I can say respectfully...miscast my ass. :realmad: Bronson was perfect and he is 1/3 rd why the movie stands as one of Leone's best films.

    As for writing the foreign part out? That is just flat out silly to me. I am not buying Eastwood being put in that position, no way, no how. The bully aspect of Henry Fonda's character and how Bronson came to the McBain's and how a prostitute woman would be saved by a minority elevates that movie to the highest level. Eastwood with his sarcastic quality, would have ruined it. He has played lots of roles, and I am sure he would be enjoyable, but this one I am glad he didn't do. He just wasn't right for this story, in this way. This was not a star vehicle, this was a story that need to be played back to elevate the other two lead (well 4 if you count Henry Fonda).

    Would it be yet another great Eastwood movie....sure, but I would feel the same about it, as I do the other 3 movies...less than OUATITW. To each his own. Can't figure it though. I understand loving a movie, but man it would be like me saying Bronson should have been the lead in TGTBATU or Eli Wallach in the other two...that is just nutty and not worth expending the energy. The best casting happened for each respective movie and I appreciate them for what they are and not what I demand them to be.
     
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  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Once ...
    Henry Fonda's( Leone wanted him for his baby blue eyes)flashback scene as the young Frank dyed black hair, hard to believe Fonda was 63 at time.
     
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  20. Indeed, Leone had tried to get him for the previous film but Fonda turned it down. I think once he saw the artistry involved, he changed his mind.
     
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  21. Quadboy

    Quadboy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leeds,England
    The extras in the DVD set feature TV interview clips with Fonda who states the main reason he agreed to do the film was Eli Wallach telling him how brilliant Leone was to work with .........and how goodt/successful the 3 previous 'dollars' films had been.
     
  22. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    And since the other Good, The Bad, and The Ugly threads are closed, check out this interesting article about two crazy Vancouver fans who are trying to make a restored version of the movie themselves:

    How two Vancouver filmmakers are ‘fixing’ The Good, the Bad and the Ugly — without permission or authorization

    I think this is dangerous territory because often all you wind up is yet another opinion of what it should look like (shades of the crazy Star Wars fans). But I have to admire their spirit, and I concede that what's out on Blu-ray is not quite definitive, yet.
     
  23. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I prefer the original theatrical cut myself.

    Soundtrack in MONO.
     
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  24. Richard--W

    Richard--W Forum Resident

    Once Upon A Time In The West.

    Because there are only two kinds of Sergio Leone films, my friends.
    Those starring twinkle-toes, and those without.
    Once Upon A Time In The West holds dominion over both kinds.
     
  25. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What’s the best version of The Good The Bad and The Ugly ?
     

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