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The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. Claxton

    Claxton Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Stupid ReListen. It says Rochester. Not the first time this app has burned me, doubt it will be the last.
     
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  2. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    OK, I revisited 4/24/72 Dark Star>Uncle Dark Star as it's been mentioned here a lot lately and that got me excited about it. It's long been one of my favorites, and like Archtoop I waver between that and 4/8 as my favorite of the tour (and maybe all time although there are a few contenders--probably 9/21 and 11/11/73 are the only other ones of which I can't decide which is number one).

    Someone mentioned some melodic playing around the ten minute mark? Apologies, but I couldn't remember whom or the exact time. They go into the Dark Star theme and then Jerry messes around with something using his volume knob for several seconds before going back into it, is that the passage in question? It sounds great but I didn't hear a recognizable (to me) quote, or anything...

    The post-avuncular segment is mesmerizing...
     
  3. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Bird Song and Sugaree from 9/18/87 are tremendous, I haven't heard the second set in years and years and it is now in my sights...

    I also listened to Road Trips 4.4 from 4/6/82 today. The filler Playing>Ship>Jam is outstanding, as mentioned recently by someone here I also forget whom (sorry! it's nothing personal, just a lot of posts to remember).

    I am assured that the album is at the wrong pitch, which seems to be the case with 65% percent of official GD releases, but I can't tell from listening and kind of wish I wasn't red-pilled...there's a Charlie Miller fix somewhere and after the ipod incident, I have decided I'm going to get a couple hard drives and go back to lossless, so I'll get my hands on that soon, probably.
     
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  4. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    As for 9/18/87, I am reasonably certain it isn't sped up, but of course I've heard there's something wrong with this too...maybe my friend just doesn't like the sound, I can't remember. He particularly reviles 30 Trips...I think he gets really influenced when Charlie Miller pipes up about these things, sometimes it may be better to remain ignorant! Especially since I don't have a particularly discerning ear, I still haven't figured out whether I can hear any difference between 320 kbps and lossless, which probably means I can't (at least on my equipment, such as it is).
     
  5. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    It's usually the stuff from cassette masters that are the wrong speed, as Hal noted upthread. Those '82 shows are such culprits. The '87 stuff should be from a digital source and should not have speed issues.
     
  6. Archtop

    Archtop Agitation: Soft Dead Frumpy Crimson Cow

    Jerry hints around about it for a while, but it begins in earnest at about 9:30 of the DS section after MAMU. It really weaves in and out for the next several minutes of what is indeed a mesmerizing improv. Keith is particularly prominent and inspired. And how Jerry can make one single note so terribly interesting is beyond me.
     
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  7. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks, I was a minute late (above), so you mean just before the Dark Star theme. I'll listen again and also check out the ISB.
     
  8. Black Thumb

    Black Thumb Yah Mo B There

    Location:
    Reno, NV
    Reading Archtop's post got me to thinking about that MAMU - the transition from DS is nice and clean, but then it feels like (to me at least) the energy of that astounding interplay / improv of the past 25 minutes starts streaming back in, as if it refused to be contained, and yr good ol' Uncle starts feeling destabilized.

    3 minutes later, it fragments back into the deepness.
     
  9. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yeah, I recall him twice in that segment doing a very structured kind of riffing (although it could have been more or less than I recall). I don't remember the bit before the theme, I'll have to poke around a bit and report back if I have anything to say about it.
     
    Archtop likes this.
  10. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yes! That's how it always strikes me, like MAMU is an island in a maelstrom.
     
  11. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    It sounds to me like not maybe typical but certainly not a-typical Garcia jammage from the era. Now I am putting on Maya though and we'll see if my eyes are opened.
    Yeah, I texted my buddy. His response: "on the box set they decided to do post production matrix to 83 to 95, and created a terrible mix, although the 87 was able to be fixed by Miller. The others were not. The Miller version of the Healy mix is much better."
     
    US Blues likes this.
  12. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Re: Maya--I see what you mean, there's a little thing on the one to flat third to major third on both (although I don't think it starts on the one of DS I didn't check that carefully but I'm just making "one" the note the lick starts on) and in general there's a kind of East-y vibe. I'm not sure that it goes further than that but I'm not all that familiar with the ISB song (which is awesome) so for now I have to leave it at that. It seems like the kind of similarity that could easily be influenced by the earlier song, or by something else, or to just be hit on in a jam, or to be unconsciously influenced by that or something else. No smoking gun and no way of knowing, but I'd say a good many things have something similar. Give a guitar player a joint and a Sandy Bull record, or send him to Monterey to watch Ravi Shankar, and his fingers may well do these kinds of things.

    I don't remember any of that in the post-Uncle, I'll have to check that too to see what Archtop is talking about. Not right now though...
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  13. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    In that vein, I am not an audiophile, and if I can hear all the instruments and it's relatively clear I'm happy--and, without comparing it with Miller's version, or with the tape I had in 1989, I have no idea how I rate MSG from 30 Trips. But in general I disagree with what several people said earlier, that in general the releases have the best quality--Miller puts out a lot of stuff that is as good or better, and definitely the latter if we start to consider pitch correction.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  14. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    There is some similar stuff directly after Uncle. But I'm heading back to 87, Quantum Leap-style...
     
  15. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Wow I actually momentarily forgot my favorite Morning Dew was coming next...
     
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  16. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I wish I could "like" my own posts...

    When Jerry plays the "wrong" note I think he's bending up to a D# (in the key of D), does that seem right? It's hard to double him, I can't quite get the sound....it actually sounds like a double stop and I can't quite figure it. I'll have to look at the video.
     
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  17. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I just realized that, although I've listened to Bird Song, Sugaree and Morning Dew many times over the past 10-15 years, I haven't heard this Good Lovin'>La Bamba> Good Lovin' since around 1990...fantastic! (still talking about 9/18/87)

    I remember our non-Deadhead friend who referred to this as "a beat tune into a beat tune"...

    (not like "beat combo" music but New Jersey slang for "lame")
     
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  18. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Wow, I've got a lot of posts in a row. Where is everybody?
     
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  19. BurtThomasWard

    BurtThomasWard Guided by Loke In Memoriam

    Location:
    Norge
    Well, now you know how it feels to be me. Enjoy the view :winkgrin:
     
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  20. ailgin

    ailgin Forum Resident

    "Stop swingin' the bat. Put the bat down, Dave. Dave? Give me the bat..." Oh crap wrong Kubrick movie!
     
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  21. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thinking of dark horse Dark Stars, or whatever the wording was, I think the only measure would be not on a release, since everyone has various tapes and I can't judge how well-known something is in a lot of cases. But I am thinking of both Dane County 1973 (2/15 and 10/25) Stars as good examples, as well as 10/18/72.

    I haven't heard 11/13/72 in years--I don't remember it sounding that great but that changes all the time with upgrades etc.--but I remember it being really good, with some intense Phil stuff (not always the best but I recall it being really killer in this case)

    I'm listening to 8/24/72 right now for the first time EVER and right now there are tremendous things happening...someone on Heady Version says it's "almost as good as Veneta" (which really means "much better than Veneta").


    Portland 6/24/73 gets a lot of love but I don't remember loving it. Haven't heard it since 1020 though, and you have no reason to take my word over the masses...

    That was dzhason, right? There you go, dzhason...
    EDIT 2010
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
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  22. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I actually checked the news to see if there was a nuclear war after I posted that...I would have been surprised if there was, mind you.
     
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  23. The only time it bothers me that a recording is not playing back at A=440 concert pitch is when I play along on guitar - which I rarely do. Or, if it's off enough to affect the vocal timbre to feel unnatural. Otherwise, as long as the instruments are in tune with each other, it sounds fine to me. I mean, it's well known now that most of the tracks on the original E72 album were sped up. Does that make it unlistenable? No, IMO. For example, hearing the 4/8/72 "Cumberland Blues" at its correct speed the other night was great, but I almost missed the artificial energy of the oft-heard, sped-up version that opened the original Europe '72 album. Almost.

    Your mileage may vary, of course.

    Would it be better if Mr. Norman, Mr. Glasser, and crew bothered to check the pitch before putting out the official releases? Of course. However, the improved sources and mastering in most cases make the official versions essential, IMO.

    Now what would we get if Mr. Miller had access to the vault tapes with his gear and mastering style? Hmmm, I'd better not open up that can of worms...
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2017
  24. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    OK the 8/24/72 Dark Star is excellent. It feels short but it's not, I see; 27 minutes is pretty standard length...but I thought it might be headed somewhere exceptional when Phil proposed Morning Dew and Garcia accepted. Nevertheless, it is a really good Dark Star, and much better then the horrible train wreck of a Star at Veneta when they were clearly completely out of gas, and that show never happened anyway, it is all a hoax funded by Pole Guy who got some "crisis actors" to play the band (and the "crisis" is that horrible Dark Star). Pole Guy made one mistake though--he played himself, and he has never been seen since (thank God)...so check out the BCT for some good Dark Star action.

    The Morning Dew begins very subduedly, reminiscent of 10/18/72. It has a lot of promise, but I'm just at the "young man moan" part and as I say I've never heard this before...
     
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  25. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I should say my mileage varies! You're out of your mind!





    Actually, no, my mileage does vary, but just by a little bit. I agree that if I can't hear a chipmunk effect it doesn't really matter, but if someone tells me about it I can't help being bothered a smidge, at least. So maybe it's better to be blue-pilled...

    ...back to listening to Morning Dew and hitting "refresh"...
     
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