The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. tdcrjeff

    tdcrjeff Forum Resident

    Hermosa Beach, CA
    He was certainly mentioned around on back then, along with David Hidalgo, Jorma, Carlos Santana, etc. But you highlight exactly why he wouldn't have been a good fit, he was (is) not an improviser.
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  2. notesofachord

    notesofachord Where are the prawns?

    July 3, 1978, St. Paul, Minnesota

    Listening to this show for the first time. The first set was solid, but they do get a little "shouty" with the vocals at times (gracias cocaina), but very good. Donna's yelps during "The Music Never Stopped" are outrageous - they almost made me laugh. She was gettin' in to it, man!! :laugh:

    I'm now in the second set. Scarlet>Fire was great, and now this Dancin' in the Streets has got me groovin' like no other. Bob's slide is slightly annoying, but not too bad. Damn, those drummers though - they're cookin'!!!


    What does this mean? Yes, you guessed it - I finally broke down and picked up the July 1978 box. My first listen was to the second set of Omaha, which honestly, didn't impress me much (but I'll listen again, of course). Next was the first set of KC (July 1), which I wasn't digging. But, man, this St. Paul show is a good one.


    Edit: "Rhythm Devils" is nice. I agree with whomever it was (either on this thread or the July 1978 specific one) that opined that "Drums" was one of his favorite things about 1978 Grateful Dead. I concur sir. I concur.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  3. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Livingston NJ
    Methinks you need to re-listen to the second set from 7/5/78 (Omaha) a couple more times post-haste:)
    adamos, bzfgt, US Blues and 5 others like this.
  4. Archtop

    Archtop Infinity goes up on trial!

    Greater Boston
    Would you mind specifying a time stamp on that for me? I'd be glad to try to break it down for you. I'm thinking you mean the last 10 seconds or so of Help (depending on source; I don't have DP 33), where Bobby voices some overdriven chords that we don't normally hear. Plus, this is a two-part Slipknot! separated by drums and Samson (which, by Dark Star corollary, does not constitute a contiguous Slipknot!), but which transition are you referring to? Listening now and this is a good one. I may need to score a DP 33, but I doubt I'll be able to find one for a reasonable price unless one of you kind brethren want to help a brother out.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  5. Archtop

    Archtop Infinity goes up on trial!

    Greater Boston
    Oh, great googly moogly, you must mean the transition from Samson back to Slipknot! That's just spectacularly lovely, mainly thanks to Jerry (for those in the know, I prefer Phil to Jerry in the most general terms, but Jer is all over this) and it's just fantastically beautiful. And it takes a tortuous route back to Slipknot! but it gets there deftly.

    @BurtThomasWard have you digested this 'un? Probably. But what we have here is evidence that 1976 was a very important year, despite other clear evidence to the contrary.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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  6. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Oakland, CA
    That one, 7/17, and 7/18 are my three favorite shows of '76, a year that certainly had its moments even if overall I prefer most of the rest of the decade.
  7. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    Garcia-Grisman stuff I think is all under Grisman's umbrella. All of what I have from them is on Acoustic Disc, his label. (Which was according to Garcia's master plan, IIRC. (maybe to make up for stiffing Grisman back in the 70s?))
    What's crazy is that they played more shows total in 1976 than they did in 1974, in spite of 'retiring' in October.

    Goes to show how much being Rakowed cost them, I guess.
  8. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag Your Ad Here

    Pacifica, CA
    I'll guess it had a lot more to do with Jerry taking the load off of himself as much as possible. I think he played with Grisman because it freed him up to just "be." That's the impression I get from Grateful Dawg. David was probably more than happy to captain those sessions, because he's playing with a guy who's comfortable enough as an acoustic player, a huge star and a sympathetic player.
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  9. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    I had read somewhere that Garcia had given Grisman the money to start his label. I found a few articles talking about how they got back together, none of which mentioned the Rex foundation. As usual, this quote from the Grateful Dead Guide sums it all up:
    Grateful Dead Guide: Garcia in the Background

    I don't know whether Garcia thought he owed it to Grisman, or (more likely) that's just the kind of guy he was, but you can see he's killing a few birds with the same stone - a creative outlet for himself with very little pressure, but also a good turn for his old buddy (who may or may not have taken one for the team in the whole GD Records/GD movie bloodbath,) whose label is devoted to obscure and/or old timey music and also has a business model that benefits the artists over the label etc.

    As low pressure as it ended up being, it looks like Garcia was the one who initiated the whole thing. (And thank goodness he did, to me it's the best thing he did after 1980.)
  10. notesofachord

    notesofachord Where are the prawns?


    Yes, the tempos could be sleepy. No, they didn't rock out as hard as they would in subsequent years.


    The setlists were unique and unusual. The musicianship and improvisations could go into fantastic, never-to-be-repeated jams and themes that were fairly unique to the year. They played with the well-rehearsed delicacy of a rested, un-stressed band whose musical style and direction was informed and influenced by their solo pursuits (JGB and Kingfish, in particular).

    I dig it.
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  11. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    They changed the key of Dire Wolf?? I never noticed. From A major to...?
    ianuaditis likes this.
  12. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    Nice. I may get this...

    ...but can I warn everyone of just how much of a pain downloads from the Jerry website are for each and every release? Every single time I have purchased a download (every GarciaLive and a few others) I have had a problem with the download - in one way or another it didn’t download properly or in full and I couldn’t recommence it. I had to contact customer service.

    Ditto on the most recent GarciaLive. I downloaded a ZIP file and it only contained three tracks. Two attempts to email customer service (including the website’s contact customer service form) resulted in emails that bounced and, so far, no download.

    Sorry to be negative but everyone should know how annoying this is before ordering a download!
    trd and budwhite like this.
  13. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    It's in C for the post-hiatus versions.

    I first discovered it trying to play along with Reckoning, but it goes back to at least 78.
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  14. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    Third and final post...and it may seem a bit silly and childish but it’s not meant to.

    In my innocence of never going further than a few joints in my late teens/early twenties, I am curious: does anyone have any suggestions for what type of influence the group was under on 6 November ‘77?

    Disc two of Dave’s 25 (Samson, Sunrise, Scarlet> Fire> Good Lovin’) is some of the wooziest, fuzziest Dead I have ever heard. Jerry seems to be in desperate trouble just singing anything, let alone the correct lyrics. The band seems absolutely toasted in the Scarlet jam. Samson is extremely ragged. Jerry seems to be distracted during Sunrise. They manage some fine playing during Scarlet> Fire but all of them and especially Jerry seem to be weighed down with...something.

    Were they peaking...or something? Had they just smoked a pile of hash? Had Jerry downed a bottle of Scotch in the set break? Surely it wasn’t cocaine. That would have sharpened them up, not slowed them down so much.

    Huh. Never picked that up. Seems a strange decision to raise the key and then stick with it when Jerry’s vocal chords started to struggle from the late ‘70s onwards.
  15. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Götaland, Sverige
    Things like that makes me look for it at other

    We have another member that always seems to have problem with the Garcia website too.
    How hard can it be? Why don't they take this serious?

    I was going to buy the download but now I'm not so sure
  16. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    They could make it much easier for everyone with a time limited download - 48 hours or whatever from the first attempt. Instead it is a one-off, where they give you a choice between a ZIP file or the files. All it takes is your internet connection to drop out long enough for your download to stop and you’re stuffed.

    Having the website customer service email form not work is a new one though. They have really upped their game.
    budwhite and SBegonias17 like this.
  17. US Blues

    US Blues Forum Resident

    We had a first-hand account on one of the threads from someone who was on the rail for this show. He reported they came out completely baked for set 2. That means cocaine, copious amounts of the Kind, and opiates for Jerry. They were likely all stoned to the stars for that set.
  18. US Blues

    US Blues Forum Resident

    Up too early and catching up on some March 1981 shows.

    7 March- Cole Field House, U of MD, College Park. Stunning Birdsong this night, we heard about it through the grapevine only days after the show. The FOB recording brings the sound of the Tiger directly to your eardrums. Nice Iko Iko to open set 2, and a short but interesting jam after Saint. Oddly, the boys did not perform Terrapin Station at the home of the University of Maryland Terrapins.

    9 March- MSG. The first set opens with a one-two punch of Feel Like A Stranger and Althea. Again, the MOTB FOB recording is exceptional. Ramblin' Rose is hitting clean-up, gotta go!

    PS- I have to say, this tour features great energy from the band and the audience all the way through, and Jerry plays wonderfully throughout. It was hard to know at the time that these shows would be highlights years later.
  19. Tom H

    Tom H Forum Resident

    Kapolei, Hawaii
    Good move. I listen to it more often than either of my May 1977 boxes.
  20. Champagne Boot

    Champagne Boot Jeff Foxworthy in a serious role

    I'm talking about the last two minutes or so before the transition into Franklin's. Incidentally, it seems like one of those situations where the AUD sounds far more compelling than the SBD.
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  21. Rne

    Rne Sufferin' succotash!

    I'm not in the mood for complete shows, so, since it was mentioned recently here and it is one of my favorite passages from 1976, I'm listening to:

    October 9, 1976:

    "Help on the Way">
    "Samson and Delilah">
    "Franklin's Tower">
    "One More Saturday Night" ---> I'm not going to listen to this one.
  22. SBegonias17

    SBegonias17 Forum Resident

    With this '76 kick in the last few days, I revisited Dick's Picks 20 (9/25 and 9/28) and Dave's Picks 18 (7/17 with most of 7/16).

    DiP 20 was nowhere near as lethargic and eh that I had originally thought. 9/25 still struck me as a so-so show with its mix of duds and hot moments. 9/28 was fairly similar, just with a higher percentage of hot moments. The two jams were pretty sweet. Still not a top DiP for me, but I recognize a little bit more of its merit now.

    Dave's 18 on the other hand, is just plain awesome. I preferred 7/16 to 7/17, but both shows are remarkable. The jamming, improv, and just general feel to the tunes makes you feel good about life. Both 2nd sets are noteworthy for their jams and I really dug the TMNS>Scarlet from the first set of 7/16. And the Peggy-O, and the Big River, etc.

    Probably in the top 5 Dave's for me, along with 11/17/73, 1/22/78, 2/24/74, and 11/6/77. I need to revisit this one more often.

    And now I'm off to the Winterland, June '77.
  23. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Chicago, IL, US
    It is worth hearing the audience tape from 9/28/76, since a few minutes of transition jamming between Playing In The Band and The Wheel is cut from the soundboard recording.
  24. Scopitone

    Scopitone Inveterate Skipper

    Denver, CO
    I'm in Paris right now, so the appropriate E72 shows seen best.

    Starting with 5/4/72. The GSET opener has some tasty jamming.
  25. hoggydoggy

    hoggydoggy Forum Resident

    Ah, cheers - I really only started to get into that group around 2000-2001, so maybe missed a lot of the immediate post-Jerry conversation.

    You're right - he's NOT known as an improviser (I'd love to see him tested in that sort of environment) and, as far as I'm aware, is not acquainted with or connected to the Dead's music (although there are apocryphal stories that Jerry really liked Knopfler's playing). What's interesting to me I suppose is that he arrived in a similar musical shared space to Jerry, via a completely different route & set of circumstances.
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