The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. KDubATX

    KDubATX A Darby Man Never Says When

    Location:
    Austin
    But it is pretty awful once you strip away the IMAX spectacle and try watching it at home. First time I saw it my reaction was WOW, second time it was ‘what was I thinking?!?’
     
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  2. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    When was he not?
     
  3. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Pretty much whenever Phil played a note.
     
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  4. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    There aren’t many Les Pauls with three P90s. I should think they are only models which owners have customised. SGs with P90s were Specials, with dot inlaid rather than trapezoid inlays. (Incidentally I stuck two Lollar P90 for humbuckers into my 2003 SG Special.)

    Actually, you probably meant humbuckers, in which case, yes, late ‘50s Les Paul Customs usually (always?) had three buckers. Bob Weir played one in ‘71.

    Also, the ‘70 SG was an early Les Paul SG. The ‘68-‘69 SG was a later ‘60s model with a bigger pickgaurd.

    Edit: Rather predictably others have addressed these matters more eloquently and interestingly than I did. I should have checked!

    Right. I need to listen to that one again. I remember not being that impressed but it’s a ‘72 so it has to be worth further tries. Thanks for the reminder.

    I’ll need to wait for these wretched ear infections to go away though. Can barely hear anything other than a high pitched whine all day long (not my own voice.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  5. SBegonias17

    SBegonias17 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    There's the question of whether you mean musically or group dynamic-wise.

    In the early days, I get the vibe that Pigpen was much a leader as Jerry was in '65-66. That clearly was changing by '67.

    Musically, I get the sense that Phil was driving things a lot of the time in '73-74. Listening to Phil's bass work, particularly on a show like Dick's Picks 14, it really sounds like he's driving where the band was going musically.

    I also get the sense that in parts of the 80 and 90s, things were rudderless at times depending on Jerry's health and I also get the sense that Phil stepped up some of the leadership, particularly within the organization, post-Brent.

    Obviously none of that counters the main thought that Jerry was the leader and symbol of the Grateful Dead and for 90% of the group's existence the leader of where they went musically.
     
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  6. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Listened to this (Disc 2) last night. The "He's Gone" that follows might be even better.
     
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  7. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    16 May 1978- Chicago.

    Estimated Prophet > He's Gone...


    The long vocal coda on the latter made for an excellent drive into town for work this morning.
     
  8. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    There were shows (and I'm talking Brent-era and beyond) where Jerry would lead the band, and others where he'd lay back and let Bobby have the spotlight, content to play his part. This is in terms of song selection, stage presence, and his playing.
     
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  9. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Plus Cumberland is easily a top 2-3 version ever
     
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  10. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    Yeah, I should probably limit my discussion to bass setups rather than guitars.
     
  11. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose"
     
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  12. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Despite the severe cuts (patched with boomy audience patches) at the end of both Sugaree & Stella Blue on Disc 1 of Road Trips 1.4 culled from the 10/21/78 show, there is some incredibly exciting moments within this curated disc:

    1) despite Miracle being a bit too long (7:40), it does get to some cool places and then Got My Mojo Working at first seems superfluous but by the end it is totally Screaming Genius GOGD Music.

    2) the end of TOO is a top 10 all-time Dead 45 seconds - WOW

    That is all
     
  13. KCWhistle

    KCWhistle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Agreed. I wrapped up my fall '73 excursion yesterday, and one of the true revelations of this listening tour was What Phil Lesh Did. I'll admit to having given not just a whole lot of thought to Lesh over the years, and have largely thought of the enthusiasm his playing occasions as some kind of fun quirk I've been content to let other people possess, but holy cow do I ever get it now. I'm not sure when I started really noticing, but focusing on him over these past several weeks has been revelatory and rewarding. By the time I hit Dick's 14 I was definitely paying attention.

    Dick's 1, now there's a fun little release that opened the floodgates in a strange fashion. Not only is it hacked up, but Dick even took liberties with the track order to kick things off with Here Comes Sunshine in what is an awfully nice version. (The best?) Both discs are perfect. I can see myself going back to this one for a dose of fall '73 delights -- Weather Report Suite, Playin', the jammy second disc (Jerry sure did like "Nobody's Fault But Mine" a lot in the fall), Mississippi Half-Step sans the "across the lazy river" coda. Gotta say, though, I've missed Donna from Dick's 14 on.

    I should really lay off the '73 (and probably '74) until the PNW box arrives, although I'd at least like to run through my DIY version of Believe It If You Need It. Might do the October '77 Road Trips and Dick's 29 filler next, and then jump around a bit in lieu of tackling another project before the box. God knows I have no shortage of releases I've never heard before.
     
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  14. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    It was an 80s day here yesterday - The cat got me up before 8 so I put on 4-11-87 at the UIC pavilion. The first Tons of Steel I've heard in a while, followed by Desolation Row in set 1, and a pretty standard set 2 jam of Terrapin>drums>space>Wharf Rat>Throwing Stones>NFA, followed by NFA>Black Muddy River as the encore.

    then it was 4-1-84, the final show of the first Rex benefit run. Not quite as sharp as the previous shows of the run, this one did have an excellent first set, and also featured a 2nd set jam built around Terrapin, this one Terrapin>Drums>Space>Morning Dew>etc.

    While riding around in the car yesterday I had my super chipmunk cassette of 12-2-83, Jerry Garcia Band at the Tower theater, a good soundtrack for a drive on a hot day, even at super speed.

    Then to close things out it was 2-11-79, only a couple of months away from the start of the GD 80s. I haven't been in any kind of rush to listen to the last couple of shows from the Keith and Donna era, since I don't want to leave it behind, but went for it when I saw this one also had Terrapin in set 2.

    I talked about 'double openers' a while back, this set 1 had a triple closer, with Lazy Lightning>Supplication, Might as Well, and Music Never Stopped to end a typically good set 1.

    I really like China Cat>I Know You Rider in this era, it's a real shame they didn't bring it back earlier, and a bigger shame that there are very few good tapes of the shows where they played it in early 79 (including one that's entirely missing!) This show is a 'just OK' audience tape. With effort (and volume) you can hear everything, but it's nothing like the SQ even for most AUDs of this period. In this case the jam doesn't come out of Terrapin, but the Playin' in the Band that follows, with what amounts to space in 78-79 coming before Drums, and a slightly longer than typical post-drums segment with NFA>Stella Blue>Miracle>Good Lovin.'

    Though the personal chaos the band was going through doesn't seem to be apparent in the music, maybe the lack of recordings is some indication of the dysfunction they were going through.

    Right now it's 12-1-73, Promised Land gets a nice groove going, which is a promising sign.
     
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  15. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    You added the bit about the P90s/buckers and the 3 pickups in the Customs.

    One one guitar discussion I saw someone ask whether Garcia's '60s Gibsons were stock, (with the implication of 'with all those Alembic guys floating around, how could they be?) I also read that Owsley got them started on changing the strings every night.
     
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  16. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    Wasn't that Garcia Band show from December '83 just available as a SDB for the first time?
     
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  17. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    I believe that was 12-3. This one was 12-2. I don't know of its provenance, I must have traded it from a friend in high school because its chipmunked as all hell.

    edit: Garciabase in Deadbase IX lists the setlist I have for 12-2, and a late/early show in Boston's Orpheum Theather for the following night.

    It's possible the 12-2 I have is not a SBD, though it sure sounds like one.
     
  18. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    He played great, but to me it was always in reaction to Jerry.
     
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  19. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Impulse download. I'm now listening to the 50th Ann. edition of Anthem Of The Sun. It sounds well-mastered, 1:38 in.

    You know, it's really true--he had to die.
     
  20. Stone Turntable

    Stone Turntable Independent Head

    Location:
    New Mexico USA
    Au contraire, Lesh played with maximum improvisational independence while honoring the foundational obligations of rhythm-section duty and listening/responding to the entire band, not just Garcia.

    Now if we're talking about a certain marked dependency/follower quotient re Garcia's lead, you gotta discuss Weir and Keith.
     
  21. wavethatflag

    wavethatflag God is love, but get it in writing.

    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Agree as to point the first, disagree as to point the second, which I basically consider fake news.
     
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  22. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    So I noticed this on the Deadpod's blog this morning, kinda sad to see this:

    "a short note on my logo.. after over 10 years of publishing the Deadpod, I was served a letter from Rhino/Warner Brothers/GDP informing me that my logo was an unauthorized use of Grateful Dead trademarks. Personally I don't get it, but I don't have the resources to fight it so I've had to remove the classic Deadpod stealie.. just so you know why it is fading away.."

    Have TPTB always cracked down on stealie use like this? Or is this a new Rhino development?
     
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  23. bzfgt

    bzfgt The Grand High Exalted Mystic Ruler

    His gentle means of sculpting souls took me years to understand...
     
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  24. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    To my ears, Phil was unquestionably leading the group in terms of direction (in many cases, but certainly others made decisions too) and this was for much of their 30 years. After all, he had the ultimate power of veto with a well-timed double or triple stop on an out of key tonic. Witness 5/26/72, 18:38 of Truckin'. Phil has proclaimed that this is his territory and when he gets good and ready to decide where things go, he'll do that. Bobby offers a D chord at 18:38, suggesting Dew or perhaps Bobby McGee and Phil vetos it by continually toggling between Eb and D (as well as some other non-diatonic rumblings). He then announces TOO with an air of we are doing this and we are doing this now. Bobby obviously agrees, as he hits an Emin less than 2 seconds into the riff.

    Then witness 5/3/72; again Truckin'--> TOO. After meandering around Emin for some 4 minutes, Phil plays the opening TOO riff no fewer than 7 or 8 times before they really settle into TOO just before 8:00. It's almost as if Phil is musically stating I know you're messing with me, but I've got nowhere else to be and I can play this riff all night. We will do TOO next.

    These are but two examples from '72. Indeed in '73 and '74 he was even more authoritatively leading.

    No doubt. Phil took a more Spanish Inquisition-like approach, which is perhaps why he seems more dominant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  25. GuidedByJonO)))

    GuidedByJonO))) Forum Resident

    Location:
    Evanston
    For reference, the logo in question -

    [​IMG]
     
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