The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. KCWhistle

    KCWhistle Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    OH YEAH! I have it but haven't watched it yet! Sorry all, that one just "vault"-ed into the lead.
     
  2. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
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  3. Phoenician

    Phoenician Resident Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Aha, thank you. Just the list I was looking for.

    Aside from 8-4-74, I think most of those are too short. Once you subtract the opening 3 minutes and the closing, the center will be well under 20 minutes.

    It's interesting what an outlier the Seattle show is. The next longest might be Winterland 10-16-74, and that's 32 minutes. A few around 30, a few in the high 20s, and then a steep drop into the low 20s.
     
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  4. heathen

    heathen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Definitely going to JRAD. Currently trying to decide between Sleep and Phil. The only thing drawing me to the Phil show is just seeing Phil live...musically I'd probably rather be at the Sleep show (I was kinda' bored with the Phil show I saw at Red Rocks last year). But, I've already got 5-6 Om shows lined up this year and I've seen Sleep several times, so it's not like I NEED to go to that Sleep show. Sort of an embarrassment of riches.
     
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  5. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    Other long PITB that may not have been mentioned:

    2/3/78 has The Wheel inside but it has so much greatness it should not be forgotten - first portion is 24:35 & reprise is an amazingly great 9:02 (Dick's 18)

    12/28/79 might not be quite as long and it morphs into rhythm devils and never reprises but it’s an all-time meltdown (RT 3.1)

    7/19/74 - 29:14 (Dave’s 17)

    Did we miss the epic 31 minute version from the 11/15/72 bonus material on Dave’s 11?? No meltdowns but an incredible seemingly never ending group improvisation. I need to hear the other 25 minute version from the 11/18/72.

    This being said these days I’m very partial to the 15 to 23 minute versions - especially a number of great 1973 versions like 2/26/73, 4/2/73, 6/22/73 & 11/9/73.
     
  6. Phoenician

    Phoenician Resident Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Those were 3 of my initial 4 examples with the 4th being Seattle 74. :)
     
  7. WaterLemon

    WaterLemon Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I’ve also been digging into (and just plain digging) these Red Rocks 82 shows this week. I decided for some reason to listen in reverse chronic order, so started with 7/29. The show starts with a bang, totally great versions of both Minglewood and FOTD. @budwhite is right on the mark; check out Garcia’s solo on Friend. Definitely an A-plus rendition. The rest of the first set is good too, maybe not overwhelming but enjoyable.

    Set two kicks off with a fun Cold Rain (it was wet that week) and Samson. The second (or third ?) Crazy Fingers since 1976 was a fun breakout, good solid version, followed by good Miracle and then a beefy jam. The post drums I really didn’t remember well, but damn, it is great. A really searing Other One propelled by Weir and Jerry, then two-fer of GDTRFB-Wharf Rat, then some very tight and well played rock and roll (A&A-Good Lovin) to end the set. And Brokedown, which I can’t imagine anyone being disappointed by as the encore.

    I won’t replicate the blow-by-blow description done so well by Warewolf for the other shows. But I just gotta say, it’s been a pleasant jog into 1982 GD. I loved these shows at the time, and it’s nice to know that there are such fine sounding tapes documenting a really good run of shows. These tapes you can really hear the band well. Weir and Garcia sound especially fine.
     
  8. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    I really like the 7-27-82 Red Rocks show, too. One of the first live GD cassettes I ever got. I almost always like second sets that open with "Playin'", and this one has a nice jazzy intro from Brent to boot. It's got a nice long (for the 80s) jam, which gets reprised after "Terrapin". The post-drums has a few highlights as well, including Phil absolutely losing his **** during "The Other One" and a really nice version of "Stella Blue".
     
  9. Archtop

    Archtop Soft Dead Crimson Cow

    Location:
    Greater Boston, MA
    8/4/74 is a good 0:30+ short of having a 20-min improv section (finding the start is easy; when the chord changes from D to Dmin after the main ten theme; finding the end of the improv is less clear). And I specifically listened to when the Dorian started, when the recapitulation started and/or whether there was lengthy audience space at the end so as to make the total track time deceiving.
     
  10. budwhite

    budwhite Climb the mountains and get their good tidings.

    Location:
    Götaland, Sverige
    We talked about this version not long ago. 27min long
    www.archive.org/details/gd1978-01-15.fob.holwein.motb-0132.106182.flac16
     
  11. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    I love closing of winterland but looks like I'm alone. I also like truckin up to buffalo
     
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  12. Gray Beard

    Gray Beard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Closing of Winterland is fantastic but the version on Prime is a travesty and features interviews and other assorted crap interspersed throughout the performances, sometimes right in the middle of a jam. It’s a truncated mess and should be avoided. Check out the actual dvd release for the real deal. The Scarlet/Fire in the first set is glorious and has been my wife’s favorite for years!
     
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  13. Senor Muddy

    Senor Muddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    I have seen Phil live more than any other musician, over 100 times with The Grateful Dead, plus dozens of Phil and Friends, PLQ, Dead, Furthur shows.
    Last two times I saw Phil was with the Terrapin Family Band, last year at Red Rocks and the year before at Fox in Boulder.
    As Walter in the Big Lebowski would say " Amateurs Dude, Amateurs". Needless to say I'm passing this year. I understand the family connections but Phil can find some more competent musicians to play with, I would think.
     
  14. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Matthew 21:17

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Peter Tork passed away this morning (RIP.) The Monkees were maybe my first favorite band, as some relative gave us a record player and my mom's old Monkees albums happened to be the most age-appropriate records she had on hand for a 6 and 4 year old. I haven't listened to them much since, except for incidentally.

    However, Tork was part of what I think is one of the defining moments of GD lore. Sadly Mr. Tork played the establishment antagonist to Phil Lesh's nonconformist hero, but it is what it was:

    This was Robert Christgau's report:

    Tork's mission was to quash a small riot. All weekend there had been Beatle rumors--their equipment was backstage, they were holed up in a motel, they were mingling incognito ("disguised as hippies," Derek Taylor said). The Beatles are kings of the love crowd, and everyone wanted desperately to catch a glimpse of them. Now some kids were trying to get in backstage and hunt. Who better than a second-hand Beatle to stop them?

    "People," Tork said, "this is me again. I hate to cut things down like this, but, uh, there's a crowd of kids--and this is to whom I'm talking mostly, to whom, are you ready for that?--and, um, these kids are like crowding around over the walls and trying to break down doors and everything thinking The Beatles are here . . . ."

    Phil Lesh could no longer resist. Lesh, The Dead's bass player, is twenty-nine, classically trained, a Bay Area native, and there, right there, stood Los Angeles, this square, manufactured teen idol, the mouthpiece of safe and sane Adlerism, everything Lesh had hated all his life.

    "This is the last concert, why not let them in anyway?"

    ". . . and, um, last concert, all right, except that they're trying to break things down, crawling over ceilings and walls and like, they think The Beatles are here and they're not, you, those of you, they can come in if they want."

    "The Beatles aren't here, come in anyway," Lesh said.

    There were cheers. Tork laughed nervously, mumbled, "Uh, yeah, there's great things happening anyway. "

    "If The Beatles were here they'd probably want you to come."

    "Yeah, except that, uh, just don't, you know, bring down ceilings and walls and everything, and, uh, carry on."

    Here's the audio from the archive, hard to hear much of what Phil says:

    www.archive.org/details/gd1967-06-18.115858.sbd.kaplan.flac16/gd67-06-18t02.flac
     
  15. heathen

    heathen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    That was my complaint as well.

    I took a look at the ticket prices and I'm going to the Sleep show. If I had no other options I could see paying $75 to see Phil, but for less than half that I'll go see Sleep bring the Boulder Theater to its knees.
     
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  16. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    I've been wondering this. Phil's at the point (or was, anyway, as of 10-15 years ago) where he could get almost anyone to play with him.

    He also had a great 2-3 year run with the PLQ, where he played with a consistent band and reached some impressive heights.

    So why does he spend his time playing with these amateurs now? Is it money? Is it a power trip? Is it just laziness?

    I mean, he's an old guy, and it's his life to do whatever he wants with, but as someone with the amount of training, talent and experience that he has, he seems to be sorely lacking in both ambition and self-criticism.

    Contrast his reputation among deadheads -- "experimental", "avant-garde", "classically trained" -- with his actual output, where the most ambitious musical challenge he seem to have set for himself were some Miles Davis covers back around the turn of the century.
     
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  17. heathen

    heathen Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Reading between the lines of some of the things that have been said about Phil (and probably to an equal extent, Jill), I wouldn't be surprised if he wants complete control over his band and a lot of musicians wouldn't tolerate that (particularly for relatively little pay, if the Kimock story is true). I'm sure part of it is also getting to spend time making music with his son. I don't have any kids, but I imagine that would be an opportunity few parents would want to pass up...particularly when they're at Phil's age and have gone through the health issues he has. Like anything in life, it's likely a combination of many factors. Who knows...maybe he really enjoys spending time with this group of people and doesn't mind much if they're not the absolute greatest musicians. Maybe his bigger priority is enjoying himself. And if people keep buying tickets, something must be working right?

    Of course all of this is pure speculation. The only way to know for sure is to ask Phil...but even then you'd have to factor in that there may be forces at play that he (like any person) can't explicitly recognize.
     
  18. Lefty Wright

    Lefty Wright Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nevada
    Other threads claim a "Grateful Dead - Warfield Theater" RSD 2019 release? Anyone have more info?
     
  19. Dahabenzapple

    Dahabenzapple Forum Resident

    Location:
    Livingston NJ
    I like Closing of Winterland although the mid-section NFA with guests is weak. Worst thing about it is that it starts crazy strong with Sugar Magnolia and a great Scarlet>Fire. I’ve forgotten the PITB but IIRC it fades without any big peaks into a too long rhythm devils which goes into the above mentioned too long hazy guest ridden NFA.
     
  20. Lefty Wright

    Lefty Wright Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nevada
    Have you read Fare There Well: The Final Chapter? It is a page turner. Some reasons for playing with amateurs is: 1) wants to play with his kid(s) and develop the "next generation"; therefore 2) convenience and health requirement of playing locally exclude most musicians, so the amateurs are available and know the material; but also 3) his wife Jill burned a lot of bridges and is a huge pain in the ass (according to the book) and thus scared off lots of musicians.
     
  21. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Haven't read that book but I'd probably enjoy it.

    And as I said before, it's his life and he certainly doesn't need my permission to play with whoever he wants. But OTOH, if fans are paying good money to see him play, it seems to me like he owes them a certain level of professionalism. I mean, we all know that there are some Deadheads who would pay to see Phil read from the phonebook, so ticket sales are never likely to be a problem, but like I said, he seems to be lacking in self-criticism with regard to the value he's actually delivering for the money.

    One of the things I really liked during the 1998-2008 period (when I was seeing a lot of post-GD shows) was that the general level of musical professionalism was much higher than it had been for the last year or two (at least) of the Dead's existence. They were loose and adventurous, but they delivered the fricken goods and they didn't mess around (other than [cough cough] Phil's attempts to sing numbers like "Morning Dew" and "Mountains of the Moon").

    As for the question of finding musicians to play locally, he has homes in Marin County and New York, right? It's not like he lives on Mars. He could find people willing to play with him if he was willing to cough up the dough. He wouldn't have to hire Eric Clapton or Billy Cobham but he could get guys like John Molo and Pete Sears pretty easily, I'd think.
     
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  22. JRM

    JRM Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
  23. Lefty Wright

    Lefty Wright Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nevada
    I agree. I saw his Thunder & Lightning lineup at TXR and was very underwhelmed. PLQ? Furthur? His lineups with Russo or Kadelicik? Superb. Otherwise it's not worth the $ for me.
     
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  24. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Location:
    Finger Lakes,NY
    phils best years post gd were from 99 to 2006 imho, looking back it’s sad to me that was 20 years ago....wow
     
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  25. jazz_case

    jazz_case Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colfax
    I should say that other than admiring their work from afar I'm NOT affiliated so I hope this isn't considered SPAM.

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    Those yearly DB's were pretty much scriptures provided from on high to a young deadhead like myself back in the day.
     
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