Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.
St. Stephen>The Eleven>Caution just scorches all the way through.
Been meaning to spin that one, but I'm stuck in '69-'70 at the moment, and don't see any way out.
Tonight it's the 4/17/72 Dark Star. Y'know, the one with the gorgeous Let it Grow jam that crystallizes out of the ether at 25:18. The one with Jerry howlin' from the asteroid belt...that one.
Great post, and a bit of synchronicity as I’m mid way through 6/18/74 right now. Despite some rough WOS tuning issues in Promised Land through Black Throated, it really is exceptional how damned good this 45 year old recording sounds, streaming through the internet to my house stereo through a Sonos device. Jerry’s guitar is just leaping from the speakers. I’m In the Eyes right now—pure bliss. I also agree, this show probably contains my favorite version of WRS, though that also no doubt reflects that I’ve probably known the version since 1978 or something, so it’s just so familiar.
I've gone through 17 of the 30 years, listening that way, and the only era that I got bored of the first sets was the end of 71. Specifically October and November especially.
What I find appealing about the first sets in 72 through 74 is that they do a lot of improvising within each performance, depending on the song of course more or less, but enough to keep my interest from night to night. For instance, I had Dick's Picks 7 disc 1 on in the car earlier, and on Black Throated Wind it occurred to me that except for Weir, playing chords and singing the melody, everyone else was improvising. There are a couple of spots in that tune where they're playing 'parts,' but during the verse Garcia, Phil and Keith are all just playing whatever.
Damn, this Let it Grow jam from 4/17/72 is just a thing of the most indescribable beauty. Easily a top 5 all time segment from music by anyone in any genre. Here's some context using other members who breathe this rarified air:
Coltrane - Softly, as in a Morning Sunrise (Village Vanguard, November 2, 1961) - the trio lead-up to 'Trane's entrance and the entrance itself, coupled with Elvin's deft, seamless switch from brushes to sticks. Yeah folks, don't try that at home.
King Crimson - The Savage--> Dr. Diamond (Mainz, March 30, 1974) - proving that ugly can be beautiful.
The Wiener Philharmoniker conducted by Karl Bohm - Beethoven's 9th, circa 1970. Sounds terribly cliche, but there's a good reason why. Performed well, it's a mind-blowing piece of music, especially considering that Beethoven was basically deaf when he composed it. Pretty much all of it is gorgeous, but especially the Presto and the final movement. Play this at 11. And I don't mean late at night, although that's not a bad idea, either.
Gotta save a slot for something...
Interesting. The closest I've gotten to a full year binge is a bunch of random E72 shows consecutively, and I have to say that the quality was so high that it never got dull. Someday I'll have to give it a real shot.
Currently watching Rafa Nadal go towards potentially his 19th major title (which is insane, he could easily surpass Federer), but you guys are on fire with your GD selections tonight.
Watching also. Happy for him though I am a huge Federer fan. Hope he gets the title.
How about the count in and brilliant opening bass line of “I Saw Her Standing There”? The first track on the first UK Beatles LP and the start of a wonderful seven-year stretch of pop music.
Well, when you put it that way, I have to fire up that DS right now. The Trane is beyond magnificence, but then the Vanguard box set, along with Miles' Plugged Nickel, are in my opinion the two greatest box sets ever released.
The Bohm 9th is truly spectacular, and is definitely among my favorite readings.
1969-11-08 one of the best "feedback" ever? I doubt myself--only 2 votes on Heady Version, and one of them is me. Not that Heady Version is the final court of appeal on anything, but I'm not a 60s expert...thus I doubt myself
I don't think we had a Morning Dew tournament, unless it was before my time...there is this thread I'd forgotted all about though:
Morning Dew (Grateful Dead)
Hornsby once said the Dead in his era didn't really "improvise" much and, as evidence, cited track times--how one version to the next of, for instance, Estimated are all roughly the same length. This is a bit suspect, not least because it's broadly true about their most improvisatory eras, but it got me thinking.
How many Dark Stars, for example, from 1972 are roughly 30 minutes in length? I don't think that means they weren't improvising, but what does it mean? I often jam along with a backing track and before looking down at the timer I have no idea how long I've been doing it (or anyway only a rough, and often incorrect, idea). Did the Dead improvise to a clock? Or did they just have an uncanny sense of timing?
I don't know how many other bands this would apply to. I would think the question would be only applicable, for the most part, to jazz bands, and probably free jazz, as in any music with a regular series of "bars" this could be accounted for.
Anyway, I don't think the answer is that they had a broad sense of the momentum and direction of the piece, and this resulted in lots of similarly-timed versions. Or, rather, I am not satisfied by that answer, but I'm not dismissing the fact that it may be true--I always assumed it was, before I thought about it.
Does that satisfy, though? Would it really work out that way?
Nice to see someone share my long-held view. Normally with a double bass-heavy piece like the 9th, folks gravitate to the Berliner Philharmoniker, well-known as having one of the best double bass sections in the world (at least back in the '60s-'80s), but something about the 1970 Bohm/Wiener Philharmoniker just nails everything with perfect dynamic range.
Anyway, sorry for the diversion, but c'mon, it's Beethoven's 9th; the Dark Star of the 1820s.
One of my favorites is the beginning if Coltrane's solo on 'afro blue' I think on Live at Birdland album.
No, I agree, when I heard it the other day I thought the same thing.
Also, I got a kick out of the fact that as deep space as their jams got in the early 70s, they still had the show biz sense to end the night on some kind of rocking-out rave up, whereas in the sixties they closed it out with like seven minutes of intense feedback followed by We Bid You Goodnight.
@sami Digging Morning Dew 1969-11-07.
I feel that this started out as a more forward-leaning, tight and rocking affair, and by the early 70s it was more of a majestic, climaxing ballad. I realize @Archtop may be the only person here who even partially agrees with me, but I feel that the latter mode didn't for the most part fully reach its potential until the 1980s. I like it in 1969 where it seems to me it's poised midway between the two, although closer to the ballad than its origins as a relatively uptempo number...it's sturdy and brisk but has a lot of feeling, and the tempo is becoming more deliberate.
First set opener here...
EDIT: the lead guitar could be a little higher in the mix is the only problem (Miller SBD)
The early Joan Baez warbling Jerry vocals don't do much for me, although the playing is intense.
Totally agree! During this intense solo I'm thinking, "c'mon Charlie, the guitar!"
Wow, I don't get that at all in the vocal. Just sounds like Jerry's really into it.
I need to start keeping a text file of the shows people mention daily on here. There’s many I don’t know that I’ve heard and when I’m looking for something it’s always nice to have some ideas handy. Hell, I even need to check my Beethoven records when I get home now - I think I have a Bohm set
We talk about a LOT of music in here
That's an excellent idea. Try to remember them and a it becomes a jumble of numbers with slashes or dashes.
If you like 1969 Dark Stars I suggest that 1969-06-14 is a very good one, if a little short
Separate names with a comma.