Dismiss Notice
We are making some updates and reconfigurations to our server. Apologies for any downtime or slow forum loading now or within the next week or so. Thanks!

The Grateful Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JRM, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. ratstack

    ratstack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Been deep diving on “primal” dead the last month or so. Haven’t been posting here much because life and stuff, but man I’ve really been getting into 67-69. Not that I was unfamiliar with it or didn’t enjoy it, but I’ve been doing a lot more deep listening than I have in the past and branching out in the archive from the beaten path of official releases, including the often cited ARK run (although I think one of those was in the porch crusher), several random dart-throw shows - haven’t been taking good notes. On 2/22/69 today - interesting, contemplative Dark Star into a typically smoking, edge of the seat TOO at this moment. So much face-melting aggressive jamming in those days.

    Had to be just mind blowing to see at that time compared to most everything else going on in music. That applies to most eras of Dead I guess but I would think even more so in the 60s.

    ...Listened to a Viola Lee from ‘67 a few days ago that had to have made everyone in the hall crap their pants in simultaneous elation and abject terror. I can’t recall which one it was now and I didn’t take notes. I’ll go looking for it again this week though.
     
  2. profusion

    profusion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Listening to the official 12/31/76 release right now, since it came up in my CD rotation. I think it sounds fantastic, though I haven't listened to an unofficial source. I like the way the vocals are mixed, including the reverb. For me, after listening to SBDs for an extended period, it take some adjustment to get used to a fully mixed show where the vocals aren't dry and in your face. Donna, in particular, with her brighter voice benefits from not jumping out of the mix at you.
     
  3. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    None of the Ark shows have been released. Coincidentally enough the 2/22/69 Dream Bowl, Vallejo show was the '69 selection in the porch crusher.
     
    ARK, ratstack, US Blues and 1 other person like this.
  4. dsdu

    dsdu Forum Resident

    Location:
    Santa Cruz, CA
    The Ark run was April 1969.
    [​IMG]
     
    US Blues and Matthew Tate like this.
  5. Jerfan13

    Jerfan13 Makes wrinkles advertised as creases

    One of my newer Bay Area friends was an old dude who saw literally all the old shows. He was there from mid-67 on. “Kodiak”...Greg Lenser...if anyone might know him. All tie dye guy...lived off Piedmont in Bizerekeley. Great guy. Had the KQED master vault! I honestly couldn’t imagine seeing primal GD in the mountains.
     
    Dorelda_Doremus and Doggiedogma like this.
  6. ratstack

    ratstack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    That’s probably why I had the porch crusher in the back of my mind as I was listening to this! :laugh:
     
    Crispy Rob, US Blues and Matthew Tate like this.
  7. ratstack

    ratstack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yes. I wasn’t saying 2/22 was part of that run. I was just saying I was listening to 2/22.
     
  8. scribbs

    scribbs Resident Mockery

    Location:
    Surf City USA
    2/22/74.. New tapes? Here we go... Dogs and ale and sun.
     
  9. US Blues

    US Blues Undermining Consensus Reality

    In Hartford? IWT. OMG that was horrible, Jerry lost his voice then tried to sing Franklin's Tower. Painful.

    I clearly recall during the first set Bobby performed an eternal rendition of Stuck Inside of Mobile, With the Memphis Blues Again. I turned to a friend and opined: "Dylan songs are never so long as when Bobby sings one." He agreed.

    Happily I was at the Frost a month later and things were more, um, elastic.
     
    DrLunchbox, Doggiedogma and bzfgt like this.
  10. LandHorses

    LandHorses Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Joisey
    It was 4/3/88. He threw his mic on the floor after “Black Peter.”

    Hartford + Worcester - 3 “Black Peter”’s in 5 nights........4/3, 4/7, and 4/8.
     
    Jerfan13, Crispy Rob and pbuzby like this.
  11. mikestar

    mikestar Friendly Optimist

    Location:
    South Central MA
    I was at that Worcester run. Man that middle night was flat as a pancake and the Black Peter repeat just drove the point home. I think 4/7 is underrated - there’s a decent video on YouTube IIRC.
     
    ARK, US Blues, Jerfan13 and 3 others like this.
  12. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Location:
    Finger Lakes,NY
  13. Phoenician

    Phoenician Resident Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Amsterdam 5/10/72 this morning (still Trip 6). I noticed for the first time the sound on this one is different somehow from prior shows. Hard to describe exactly, but maybe the vocals are mixed higher, or the instruments sound a little thinner, or more separated, or something. Not a complaint, just an observation (the same way 4/24 has way more reverb than other shows).

    I only made it a little bit into TOO, so I'll start over tomorrow at PITB and see how far I get. With shows pushing 4 hours and only 2 hours of listening time and some songs I refuse to skip, it takes a few days...
     
    KCWhistle, Dahabenzapple, SJR and 3 others like this.
  14. ianuaditis

    ianuaditis Evil Twin

    Location:
    Long River Place
    Those Ark shows are okay I would put them somewhere in the top 10 of unreleased 1969 shows probably.

    Maybe the second decade now that I think about it a bit
     
    trumpet sounds and Matthew Tate like this.
  15. Phoenician

    Phoenician Resident Forum

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I watched the Last Waltz in January and looked up who was still alive and was surprised to see him still going (Ronnie Hawkins, too). Can't complain about a 101-year run at things...

    Also, with the Last Waltz being filmed at Winterland on Thanksgiving 1976, how did no members of the Dead appear? They had Bob and Ringo show up, and the Dead had played with the Band at Watkins Glen in 1973, so you'd think one of them would've showed up for a big to-do at the their home venue.
     
  16. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Location:
    Finger Lakes,NY
    My understanding as I’ve heard is that uncle bobo made that call so the heads didn’t take over(u know we would have!) I don’t know if true or not...
     
  17. ratstack

    ratstack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Yeah that might have put an unwanted spin on the “classy” chandelier/ ballroom dance kind of vibe Scorsese was going for :laugh:
     
  18. Jerfan13

    Jerfan13 Makes wrinkles advertised as creases

    Esti 4/25/77 really is nice...thanks shuffle!
     
    adamos, US Blues and Crispy Rob like this.
  19. profusion

    profusion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Since I'm listening to 12/31/76 this afternoon on my studio monitors anyway, I decided to compare the "Wharf Rat" on the official release against the pre-FM SBD on Relisten. Here are my very wordy thoughts:
    • Vocals. One of a mixer's goals is to have the listener never notice that there's studio reverb going on, even when it's used to help fill out and integrate the mix. That's a failure on the official release, where the studio reverb is quite noticeable on Jerry's solo vocals. Of course, the SBD is completely dry, so it's night and day. It's not overbearing in an '80s kind of way, but it's noticeable. Maybe it was unavoidable--I wasn't there at the mixdown, obviously.

      However, the more interesting difference is how Jerry's vocals have clearly been pitch-corrected on the official release when comparing them. Not to the silly point of latching, of course, but it's there. Interestingly, Donna was spot-on in this song and didn't need correcting. I couldn't quite tell with Bob.

      Otherwise, the vocal processing seems like the usual mix compression and transient shaping stuff you'd do to vocals in a professional mix. This has the effect of smoothing out the vocal dynamics and making the three singers more balanced. The negative, especially in the big harmony section in the middle, is that the nuances of each singer (especially Donna) while harmonizing disappear in the official mix but are quite discernable in the SBD. Overall, the official release sounds more "professional" in this way, but it loses some of that down-home quality we love about the GD.

    • The soundstages are mostly reversed. The SBD was largely mixed from the onstage perspective (Jerry and (maybe) Billy in the right channel, Bobby and Mickey in the left). The official release uses the audience perspective, with the vocals more centered but maybe slightly panned to reflect stage positions. Oddly, Keith is in the same channel as Jerry on both, when he should ideally be opposite. That may have been to give him separation from Bobby in both cases.

    • The drums are really weird in the SBD on this song. Almost entirely in the left channel (can't tell if it's just Mickey or if both the Devils were put there...). However, it seems like the source tape may have had high-end loss in the right channel, so hard to say what the SBD sounded like in 1977. The drums are FANTASTIC on the official release, and Phil's much more thunder-ific there, too.

    • There were definitely some fixes done on Jerry's soloing. He hit a few clams in this song, which I don't seem to hear in the official version.
    It's so interesting to be able to compare these.
     
    KCWhistle, Spazros, *Zod* and 7 others like this.
  20. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    5 5 90 is the worst show of that wonderful year as far as Im concerned. I definitely recall enjoying 5 6 90 much more :)
     
  21. ARK

    ARK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Charlton, MA, USA
     
    US Blues and trd like this.
  22. Crispy Rob

    Crispy Rob Cat Juggler

    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Or a standalone release of the '78 show. The only other unreleased Giants shows are the annual runs from '92 through '93. The '92-'93 shows aren't bad, but not really standouts worthy of release, '94 was not that good from what I remember, and the two '95 Giants shows are the worst shows I ever saw.
     
  23. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Location:
    Finger Lakes,NY
    Truckin’....

    Not often discussed in the “jam vehicle” discussions like Playin’, Dark Star, TOO, Viola, etc... but those exit jams could really get my juices flowing. It usually meant an inspired trip into Drums instead of the band just putting down their instruments and walking off. Check out 7/16/90 for a primo latter day example

    1:48:00 for the goods
     
  24. Six Bachelors

    Six Bachelors Troublemaking enthusiast

    The Quick and The Dead tour is my primal sweet spot. I’m listening to it again right now, with time appropriate Hendrix shows interspersed. This morning I started 29 January in Paris. On the way home I’ll finish that and enjoy the New Potato Caboose from 30 January in Eugene. Tomorrow we head to the Crystal Ballroom in Portland. After those two shows it will be back to Hendrix at the Fillmore on 4 February.
     
  25. uzn007

    uzn007 Pack Rat

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    I find that very hard to believe unless they literally spliced out part of the song (like they did on "He's Gone" for the 9-3-77 release).
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine