The greatest consumer cassette tape deck ever produced?*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Cowboy Kim, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Are you sure? It looks like the volume adjustment between line and mic.
     
  2. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    The BX-300 is a baby dragon. Well I'll take that dragon word back. One of the best sounding playback deck in linear tracking.

    The BX-300 incorporates a wealth of original Nakamichi technology such as the Discrete Three Head system, a Direct Drive Asymmetrical, Diffused Resonance Dual Capstan Transport etc.
    The deck is designed to deliver outstanding performance in every basic aspect, while providing a reasonable choice of useful features.

    Specifications
    Type: 3-head, single compact cassette deck
    Track System: 4-track, 2-channel stereo
    Tape Speed: 4.8 cm/s
    Heads: 1 x record, 1 x playback, 1 x erase
    Motor: 1 x reel, 1 x capstan, 1 x mechanism
    Tape Type: type I, CrO2, Metal
    Noise Reduction: B, C
    Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20kHz (Metal tape)
    Signal to Noise Ratio: 70dB (dolby C)
    Wow and Flutter: 0.027%
    Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.9%

    Input: 50mV (line)
    Output: 1V (line)
    Dimensions: 430 x 100 x 250mm
    Weight: 5.6kg
     
  3. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    The Stephens machines used no pinch rollers or capsans. John found that the transport of RTR was the cause of most of the noise. He later built black boxes for planes. And was also a member of the Church of Scientology and carried a Revolver around with him. I am not saying you should go looking for a Stephens 2 track. No! No! Just a little foot note. The Stephens 811D (2 inch 40 track) was 4 db quieter than the MCI JH24, 2 inch 24 track.
     
  4. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    track selector.
    [​IMG]

    I saw the literature. But I havent seen in actual yet. Bet theyre phenomenal...
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    They were some 2 head bottom models. No one ever mentioned them.

    I am sure this Nak manages 20 - 20 000 hz +-2db or better with Metal tape. But a company like Nackamchi shouldn't be afraid to put the full specs up. 20 - 20 000 hz is what they put on dollar ear buds. That is meaningless without the reference db number.

    I am sure the BX-300 kicked ass. Probably:
    20 - 18 000 +-2db with Type 1
    20 - 19 000 +-2db with Type 2
    20 - 20 000 +-2db with Type 4

    Or maybe:
    20 - 19 000 hz +- 3 db with Type 1.
    20 - 20 000 hz +-3db with type 2.
    20 - 20 000 hz +1 / - 2 db with Metal tape.
    Or 40 - 17 000 hz +- 1db.

    Their specs for this machines I am sure would kick the butt-ass off the competition. You can run a frequency response rest with test tones I assume. In fact I know you can. Let me know how it reads.
     
  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    I see you replaced the mic/line knob. In the picture it is missing. It worried me. Because you are to pro to miss something like that.
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Does it have that little pin the pushes the flimsy cassette pressure pad put of the way? It was in my 582. To my knowledge only Nackamachi had that.
     
  8. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Well just put it this way. I'm not really a Nak expert but I been recording almost every single day (you know that) with different machines. Majority of the Nakamichi exceeds my expectations. Its no hype. Besides a few bad apples or model like what you mentioned., From their basic to upper model is already 20/20. I don't use metal but I did a lot of chromes, high output and high fidelity. On certain tapes, I can get like +6db if I was really in the mood that night. Normally I stay at 3 on playback results because I use type I more.
     
  9. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    well atleast the bx model does. sankyo based transport.
     
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  10. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    The lack of proper tech info in my Nak 582 manual is just as bad. I don't know why they do that!

    My crappy midpriced 1991 Kenwood $315 deck managed:

    Type 1..... 30 - 17 000 hz +-3db
    Type 2..... 30 - 18 000 hz +-3db
    Type 4..... 30 - 19 000 hz +-3db

    So if some 2 head crapp-ass mispriced $315 Kenwood deck can pull off 30 - 19 000 hz (Type 4) then surely a top of the line, state of the art Nackamachi (still not as good as PRO RTR) must be WAY better. And yet all they put is 20 - 20 000 hz (Metal tape). And no reference db number. So the frequency range is meaningless. Nackamachi had this bad habbit of leaving off critical tech information. Why?
     
  11. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Do you know why I speak highly of Nakamichi playback? Because I heard it record and playback from an RTR source. This what you call "To the next level recording..." on a cassette deck... LoL..:biglaugh:
    Well you know this.. for this is your mastery. I've learned this from you guys. But true.
    Seriously man. that's where youll really gonna hear the bells and whistles of a superior deck.
    Telling you man I'm really fueled in converting my other machine into 2 speed. So I better start buying c-12o tapes soon otherwise theres gonna be another selling actors C-120 war-zone. and you know who and where?? ....:yikes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  12. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    No argument there. But if someone was unfamiliar with the company they would look through the manual and see just 20 - 20 000 hz with no reference DB number and move on to another company. Nak is better than this! They could murder all their competitors if they published actual specs. But they should only use the tools provided with the deck. No T-100!
    I am saying that these machines deserve better. And that the manuals aren't showing the public what these babies can really do.

    For example the Harmon Kardon HI-FI VCR was rated at 20 - 20 000 hz +-3db just like all the others. Now you know how difficult it is to record the ultrasonic. UHF magazine did a frequency test on the unit. It went right up past 24 khz. In fact it was +2 db at 22 khz! Why didn't they put that in the manual? There is no EQ or bias to set. No playback height alignment. What the machines can do on October 8, 1992 it can do on March 15, 1993. You can align a 2 inch 24 track (15 ips) to go up to 22 khz. But it will be - 2db. Or maybe - 1 db. But + 2 db! That is quite a feat.
     
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  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    C-120. You mean those cool BASF 120 Tapes. Or perhaps a TDK MA-X 110? What C-120 did you have in mind?

    Amazon is worse. They want $80 for Type 4 tapes! Recently they were selling a brand new Super VHS editing deck (the one I had purchased for $350 back 20 years ago.) for $3000 +.
    Come on. Every Ebay seller can't be an actor.....Can they?
     
  14. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Really? Sanyo makes kick-ass cassette tape transports?
     
  15. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Bro.. end your craving. I just got an email (just now) from this guy and he's giving me all the test results in the Nakamichi 2 speed conversion. I don't wanna spoil it for you man.. hes claiming that the machine is blowing away "SOME" decent RTR on playback due to the frequency and dynamic range. I don't know if you're gonna buy that but I do know for sure its better and it can be done. I can actually draw that model larger capstan model. I can copy the original capstan pulley drive on a 2-d comparator image and get close to .0003 them I'll just scale the model to a larger one so I can drive it close enough faster to where you can trim the speed.
     
  16. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    SanKyo...
     
  17. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    $30 000 brand new. Should be more Like $17 000 used. Or is it a collectable along with the Buthcher album now? Shouldn't be $30 000 now.....I hope not. Maybe you can bargain the price down $2000 or something. Or perhaps installment payments. You pay $500 over 6 years. There - completely affordable. No more than a Lexus monthly car payment.
    Yes, that is why I say stick to the A80 or A800, 1 inch 8 track. And get a head report.

    The Studer A800-24 was just a thought......
     
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  18. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Well Ive only use 90 mins. iI you do the math when running 2 speed per side will be 22.5 mins.
    with 120 atleast you get 30 mins per side. But I don't know which one to buy. C-120 is a new world to me.
     
  19. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Wait.....You got me. What do you mean speed conversion?. Running a cassette unit at 3.75 is a cheat. And yes, that would kick butt over everyone else. But you couldn't play the tapes on any other machine.. or are these Nak RTRs?

    Great. Oh I have no doubt some 3 head Nak models will blow away some decent RTR. Decent as opposed to Studer A80 2 track, or an Ampex ATR half inch, half track. But yes, I would not be surprised. At one point some 3 head cassette models were challenging RTRs. Not the best though....

    Let me know right away when you have the data. Nak actually made a cassette 8 track prototype that beat a half inch 8 track RTR. So I have heard. I wrote a post about it way back when. It was about prototypes that never made it to production.

    For example Although John Stephens had made his 811D (2 inch 40 track). His real goal was a high quality 2 inch 48 track recorder. He built the prototype and it worked but not up to his standards. The 811D:

    @ 30 ips..... 40 - 22 000 hz +1 / - 2db
    > 68 db A weighted signal to noise ratio.

    I assume his 48 track (Jesus help us!) didn't hit those markers.

    Also the Sony PCM DASH 3396 HD
    96 tracks of 24/96 PCM on 1 inch DASH tape.
    SRP $425 000 USD + shipping
    A late 90 project that went nowhere......
    Seriously, who has the money for this nonsense?!
     
  20. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    I still have a lot of mixes I did that are trapped on the VHS HiFi format.

    Would not recommend it. Here's a word to add to the lexicon: motorboating. VHS HiFi sounds great when it's brand new and it's being played back on the same deck that recorded it, but over time interchange and deterioration enter the plot. The format does not age well.

    I did have some luck using click-repair software to remove the artifacts for a few recordings that were nonexistent elsewhere but using VHS HiFi as an archiving format in the '90s is definitely in the "regret" column for me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  21. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    But that makes the tapes incompatible with every other deck without your mod. Isn't this an issue. Yes the high speed Nak would be flat right up last 30 khz. But that is a cheat! And you losr half the recording time. No! I didn't know you were doing this? Yes, 1.78 ips was NEVER FAST ENOUGH.
     
  22. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    2 speed man. selector switch.
    What was the biggest topic of the cassette besides dolby, frequency range "and" wow & flutter?
    You heard of Neil Armstrong..? Take a giant step.. Forget Steve Austin. Dont walk the line!
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2021
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  23. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy - Touch The Face Of God -

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I really miss our previous long conversations... Since my recent family emergency, I didn't even notice that I was out of over 3 months and randomly prior to that.
    I definitely miss my baby. Sometimes life sucks...
     
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  24. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Sankyo. They made tape transports and components thereof starting at least by the early '70s if not before. They seldom sold equipment to consumers under their own name. Somehow circa '77 my family found and bought a Sankyo portable tape deck, one of those mono dictation affairs. Built like a tank. Might have been this model - it looked just like this, anyhow:

    [​IMG]

    My family got me a Sears all-in-one stereo in '81 that included a stereo cassette deck. One day I plugged the Sankyo into the Aux input and compared it playing back a pre-recorded cassette to the built-in deck. Apart from being mono, I think the Sankyo was probably the better-sounding deck.
     
  25. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    When it works. The MCI can be made to work with some tech savvy. And even outside a record town.
     
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